.270 Reloads, Gentle starting loads

[Dead-Nuts-Zero]

I am thinking about trying some .270 loads. I have never loaded necked brass and want to ask around a bit before I jump in. I have experience with handgun loads and have most all equipment for such.

I will be shooting a Ruger M77 and would like to create a comfortable load to become more acquainted. I have had the gun for years with little interest in shooting it. Fired about 25-30 rds. in almost as many years. Now that I have more room to shoot, it's about time to get started.


I am Looking for low to med. budget items as well as a starting point to work up from.

I will be loading with Lyman equipment.

Here is my list of needs.

-Dies
-Brass
-Powder
-Bullets
-case lube
-procedures etc. (I have the Siera most recent edition manual to assist me)
-and anything else I have not thought of.

I know very little about hi power riffle bullets so basic bullet style and design details would be most helpful.
Any tips or suggestions would be great.

Thanks


.

[jclaude]

I'll try to help you get started by giving you some of my preferences/recommendations:

Dies: RCBS Full Length Set, for starters. Consider adding a neck sizing die after the cases have been fire formed in your chamber.
Shellholder: RCBS
Brass: Winchester
Powder: IMR 4064 (Good, General Purpose Rifle Powder)
Bullets: Sierra 130 Grain Boat Tail Spitzers (SBT Sierra Stock # 1820)
Primers: CCI 200 or Federal #210
Case Lube: Your choice of Mfr's. You'll also need a case lube pad.

Use your manual for loads and procedures. Start with minimum loads and decide where you want to go from there.

Good Luck

[hivel37]

I agree with jc.
You didn't indicate your use for the .270. If your interest is making close holes at 100 yds, some very accurate reduced loads are from the use of SR 4759. For these loads, check out the Speer manual.
Hunting game is another matter. I've had good luck with IMR 4350 and Speer's 130 grain.

[Dead-Nuts-Zero]

hivel37

I am looking for a light target load that I can build on. It's a stock gun and I am only interested in the enjoyment of loading and shooting and developing a good load for punching some holes.

jclaude

You are giving me exactly what I am looking for. I hate to buy 10 different combinations of bullets or any of the componets if I can get a few tips on what works well for you guys.

And what is Fire formed? (after the cases have been fire formed)

Keep sending...thanks

[sundog]

Might I suggest the Lee Deluxe Die Set, FL sizer, Collet Neck Sizer, Bullet Seat and Crimp, shell holder. If you have already fire formed brass (in THAT rifle) then neck size and go on. If new brass and it chambers, neck size and go on. Be sure to check brass length and trim, if necessary. Other than that, that's pretty much it. btw, the Lee collect neck sizer does NOT require case lube and does a good job at keep runout to a minimum. If you have the FLS, Hornady One Shot is a pretty good product. Be sure inside of necks are lubed when using any die the pushes and pulls a ball through. One Shot, when used as directed, will lube inside case necks. sundog

[jclaude]

Fireformed Cases: Once you have fired a cartridge case in the chamber of your rifle, that case has been "fireformed" to that chamber. For bolt action rifles, this is highly desirable, for at least a couple fo reasons.

One of the reasons being that you now have a case that has been perfectly fitted to your chamber.

Full length sizing of the case will not likely be required again, which accomplishes a couple of things for you. Neck sizing alone is much faster because almost all the time required for lubricating the case prior to sizing and the tedious process of removing all of the case lube after sizing is essentially eliminated.

Another thing gained from neck sizing is that the amount of "working" and stretching that the brass has to endure during the firing and reloading cycle is greatly reduced, which will go a long way toward prolonging the life of your cases, and reduce the requirement for trimming the cases substantially.

If you are going to use strictly new, factory cases, it may not be necessary to ever full length size them for your rifle. However, if you ever have the opportunity to acquire some fired brass that someone else has discarded, it will likely need to be full length sized before it will chamber in your M77.

Keep in mind, that when you fireform and neck size, you are dedicating that brass to that rifle. It may or may not chamber in another .270 without full length sizing.

[kingudaroad]

Good info on neck sizing fire formed cases above.

I've found Hodgdon H4831sc powder under a 130gr Nosler ballistic tip to be very accurate in my .270. I think the load started at 54gr and maxed at 58gr per the Nosler manual, but please recheck this info before loading.

[Dead-Nuts-Zero]

I don't have too many cases that I have fired in that gun. I may end up buying some ammo on sale and using the cases over. However, if I purchase new or once fired cases, I may need to trim them right? I don't have a trimmer but I have it on my list. Any suggestions on a good trimmer setup? I would be using it for handgun loads too as needed.

[jclaude]

Lyman Universal Trimmer w/multi pilot pack. It will take care of your trimming needs for most anything you'll ever need to trim.

Cases probably don't need to be trimmed right away. Trim only when the maximum case length (After resizing) gets longer than the maximum acceptable length.

If you don't have a good caliper yet, either digital or dial, add that to your list.

[Dead-Nuts-Zero]

jclaude...

Thanks again for the info.

Another question...

How criticle is the Max OAL? How far over before I should trim?
I have a good dial caliper.

What about the tool/guage that measures the rifle (sorry I can't remember the name of the tool) chamber length. It's used I think to get the top end of the bullet shorter than the chamber (slightly) so the bullet does not get chambered tight into the rifiling area? I hope I explained this correctly. I think it has more to do with accuracy than safety but not sure.
Anyway, is this something I should be looking at or is that more for pistols?

I know that sometimes it's easy to get traped in an "overly technical mode", but I want to be sure I am loading a safe load.

I think I need to get out my Speer reloading manual and read it again, it has been awhile. I have heard that the Speer book is about the best for getting started.
I do appreciate everyones replys. Keep sending.

[270Win]

I'm with Kingudaroad - H4831SC, Winchester primers, I use Hornady 130 grain bullets almost exclusively. For the record, this is all through a Rem 700 with a 22" barrel.

A widely accepted load for H4831 is 60.0 grains, compressed. This results in roughly 3050 fps. I've seen as high as 3090. You can get even higher with magnum primers.

So a light load for just plinking (with a .270?!) and/or target shooting would be maybe 55.0 or 56.0 grains. The lowest I've heard for H4831 is 52.0 grains... all of these would be reduced recoil gentle loads.

If you're just looking for a starting point, I would suggest 55.0 grains and work up from there. I happen to use 59.0 grains, finding it slightly more accurate than 60.0 for whatever reason, and have gotten sub-MOA accuracy at 100 yards.

[jclaude]

The published Maximum Cartridge Overall Length for the .270 Win. is 3.340"

Not to be confused with the Maximum Case Length of 2.540"

The trim length for the cases will be on the order of 2.520" to 2.530", depending on the source you use for reference.

It is thought by many people that accuracy can be improved somewhat by seating the bullet just far enough to clear the rifling in the barrel. In that case, the Max C.O.L. is often violated. If your rifle will hold the longer cartridge in it's magazine and feed them properly, it probably won't be much of an issue for you to violate the max C.O.L.

There is a gage made for measuring what that new C.O.L. can be for a given bullet and chamber, but I've never used one of them. You can accomplish the same thing with careful trial and error. If you get the bullet seated too far out, it will create a resistance to the closing of the bolt, letting you know that it needs to be seated a little deeper. Not a very scientific approach, but it will work.

I usually seat the bullets as far out as I can for a bolt gun, provided that I have enough of the bullet remaining in the neck of the case to maintain a good grip on the bullet. With lighter weight bullets, you probably won't be able to do that.

I agree with the 4831 and 4350 powders for this cartridge, be they the Hodgdon or Dupont varieties. I've also had some excellent results with some of the Hornady bullets, in various weights, styles, and calibers.

[kingudaroad]

Chamber length gauge from stoney point.

http://www.stoneypoint.com/

[Dead-Nuts-Zero]

jclaude

I was looking at the ....Lyman Universal Trimmer Power Pack with Case Trimmer, Power Adapter and 9 Pilots
Looking at this on MidwayUSA.com

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...eitemid=720825

They have **** reviews I don't like some of the comments about the power adapter. Here is what they say...

1).Overall a good product however I would not recommend it if you plan to trim .223 brass. The small case rim does not provide sufficient purchase for the chuckhead. The cases pop out or spin with the cutter. Very frustrating and time consuming. Works great for all other calibers.



2).Trimmer works great. Only problem I have encountered is that the hex shaft attached to the power trimmer was not true, so there is a sight wobble when using a power screwdriver. I notice that the cases are not trimmed evenly as a result. Power adapter is great, but sometimes I wonder if I should have gotten the electric version, as the arm and shoulders get tired after a while by having to attach and remove the power screwdriver each time a case is changed out. Also, I have not had any problems with trimming .223 cases as noted in another review. System works like it should.

3).I have also had trouble with .223 cases on my Lyman trimmer. I use a lot of once fired .308 Win. brass and when I put my Craftsman cordless drill on the power shaft I have trouble with the retaining ring slipping. I tighten it properly but when I put the calipers on my brass they get shorter over time. It might be that the drill is too much for the trimmer. I ended up abandoning the trimmer and started buying trim dies from Midway, they are fail proof, precision every time.

Do you, or anyone have any thoughts on the problems mentioned about the elect. drill power setup? For what few .270 I will load it won't matter, but if I use it for handgun cases I may appreciate the power setup, I don't know??? On the other hand, I have loaded revolver loads for years and never had reason to trim a case. For .380, 9mm and .40, loads, could the power adapter be a good idea?

And what about this comment......"I ended up abandoning the trimmer and started buying trim dies from Midway, they are fail proof, precision every time". ???

Am I making this thread of questions all to complicated and technical? I like to do things the right way, but I don't need to load Match Grade ammo either. I want to have fun and produce a safe load that shoots well.


Thanks again for all of the comments!!!

[Foxman]

+1 on kingudaroad and 270win I use the same H4831sc ( 58 grns)and winchester cases, with the Hornady 130grn sp and the nosler Bt 130. On one of my good days the groups are in the low .25s with these. The Lyman trimmer is just fine particularly the universal cam chuck which saves a lot of money on case holders. Go for the manual version, you will have no trouble with that and I can run a couple of hundred cases through in no time, the power adapter is just a doodad you dont need. If you do need a power one the industrial versions are best but cost 100s$. I would start at 52 grns and work up to get your best accuracy. Measure the bullet seating with a Stoney point oal gauge and the modded 270 case, general wisdom is that above 25 cal under .030" works best, mine settled on .020" off the rifling for best accuracy, yours could differ. good luck

[jclaude]

I have an old one that I've had since the early 70s. It is the manual variation and I don't recall ever having a problem or complaint with it. The most recent batch of cases I trimmed with it were .223s. About 200 of them, and no problems.

I've never tried the power attachment with mine or even seen anyone else use one, so I can't offer any comments about that variation.

Several years ago, I bought the drill press version of the Lyman case trimmer, but I didn't get a drill press until just this past Christmas. I have a batch of 270 cases in the garage right now that I just got thru full length sizing. I will be setting up the trimmer and trying it out on those cases, probably this afternoon. I'll try to offer some comments on how that one works after I've tried it out. Hopefully, it will save me some time.

[Norm Lee]

A classic small game and target load for the .270 uses a 100 gr jacketed bullet (almost any config) over 25 gr of IMR 4198. If you have or can make cast bullets, 17.5 gr of 4759 works well for bullet weights from 95 to 130 gr.


Cheers,

Norm

[cdoc42]

Let me expand on what jclaude has offered relative to seating bullets near the rifling (aka "lands"). Every brand of bullet for your .270 (or any rifle) is not the same. Even though the max recommended OAL is 3.340" that is a tip to case-base measurement. Where the bullet actually engages the rifling (the ogive on the bullet) will differ between bullet brands.

The device Kinudaroad pictured I have used but I had a difficult time reproducing the measurements because it depends on the force used to push the bullet into the rifling to start with. When you're working in the range of 0.01" from the rifling, just a nudge can change it.

I use a Stoney Point "Chamber-All Bullet Comparator." It has caliber-specific units that fit on your vernier caliper. I have a Remington cleaning rod that has a small plastic stop that fits in the muzzle to prevent damage to the crown. I use it as follows:

Remove the bolt and drop a bullet into the chamber; tap it against the rifling. Drop the cleaning rod into the muzzle until it stops against the bullet. I then use a "Sharpie" ultra-fine point magic marker to make a half-circle mark around the rod, using the plastic crown protector as a guide. Knock the bullet out with the rod. Take an empty resized case which will become your "dummy" round and seat a bullet until the base is about half-way down the neck (not critical). Then chamber this round in your rifle. That will drive the bullet into the rifling, hopefully to the same position as the one was that you simply dropped in to start with. Then reinsert the cleaning rod and now make another circle, but this time completely around the rod. Withdraw the rod and compare the lines. If they match, your round has the bullet at exactly the same spot as the dropped-in bullet. Now measure it with the Stoney Point Bullet Comparator. That becomes your overall length to the ogive (OAL-OG is trhe term I use). You do not want to seat your bullets this long as it may increase your chamber pressures (although Bench Rest shooters do this). Using the Comparator, slowly seat the bullet deeper until you are 0.01" away from the rifling. Then simply calculate the OAL-OG at 0.015" and 0.02" - your best accuracy is likely to be at one of those lengths. Note these may be longer than the max 3.340" mentioned above, depending on the bullet style. You must do this for every style bullet you want to shoot in your rifle. You cannot do it for a Sierra 130gr, then load Hornady, Speer, Nosler using the same OAL-OG. They will all have the ogive at a different location on the bullet.

My best .270 load is H414, 57.0 gr in a Remington case, CCI 250 primer, behind a Hornady 130gr SST bullet at 0.015" OAL-OG. It delivered a 3-shot, 0.348" -100 yard group and a 3-shot, 1.098" -200 yard group. The rifle is a Win Model 70 with a BOSS.

Good luck and have fun!

[Wild Bill Bucks]

I would suggest you get more than 1 loading manuel, as I have found mis-prints in almost all of mine. Use them to cross reference each other, and when you find something in one that just doesn't sound right, then log in and ask some of these guys what they think.
I'm sure the publishers of these manuels try to get everything right, but it just doesn't work that way all the time.
It is your life your messing with, so I wouldn't depend on info from just one book.

Just a suggestion.

[Foxman]

CDOC42, the measurements made with anything should be made several times and a mean average taken. The stoney point device is one of the best on the market and capable of good accuracy results, but there will be very small differences between measurements, particularly if you use a digital vernier, which is not as accurate as you might think. The method you outline with a cleaning rod is about as acccurate as using a measuring tape, there are too many variables. I dont mean to flame you, but as an Engineer for 46 yrs I sometimes worry about the sweeping assumtions made, that something is or does what it cannot do. In reality +/- 1 thou will make no difference to your groups and your getting good groups, so for you this works, but it aint good advice to others, particularly if they start tryin just on the lands loads.

[cdoc42]

Foxman, no negatives extracted from your post from my perspective. Actually I happened onto this technique while reading John Wooters' book on reloading. He recommended the first part; I added the second to confirm the findings. As you said, it works for me, and, until something more foolproof comes along, anyone's ideas and experiences are offered for others to try or trash. Smoking the bullet is yet another technique that I found even more difficult to use, but, for some, I asume, it has worked.

[Leftoverdj]

Y'all are making this way too difficult. Man asked for light safe load to start with. That would be 35 grains of H 4895 under the 130 grain bullet of his choice. (Hodgdon tells us that 4895 is safe with charges as low as 60% of the max recommended load.)

He's going to need to trim cases. The Lee gadget for under $10 will do that nicely.

He wants to know about COL. He don't need no expensive gadget for that. All that takes is a fired case and one of the bullets he'll be using. Run the case up into the sizing die just far enough to start sizing the neck. Push a bullet into the neck just far enough to stay. Chamber the dummy round and you have the COL that will touch the lands. Subtract .010 and you have the place to start loading.

Aggravates me considerably when someone asks a simple question and gets complicated, expensive answers that have little to do with the question asked.

[Dead-Nuts-Zero]

Leftoverdj......

Thanks for your comments, I agree with you on the off topic replies, I don’t care for it either when I see it done to others. However, I really don’t mind on something like this thread. I have a thirst for details even though I don't need it right now.

I was reading the long procedure using the cleaning rod and the 1/2 circle marked with the Sharpie ex-fine tip etc. etc. etc. As I read this, I was able to follow in my mind how this works. cdoc42 did a good job with his instructions. However, after thinking about this for a moment, believe it or not, I came up with the exact same idea as you, Leftoverdj. Using a dummy load pushing the bullet into the case as it's chambered. Then I am thinking that's too simple and maybe not acceptable. I still think that it will get me as close as I need and then fine tune it if needed. Then I thought of how I first loaded my revolver rounds 20 years ago. Being certain they would clear the forcing cone and keep the bullet tip inside the cylinder. I used a good roll crimp and they stayed in place while firing. I was always careful starting out at the lowest listed point or sometimes slightly below that. I had no chrony (I will have one soon) and just played the game slow and easy until I found a suitable load. Accuracy in my experience usually comes well before the maximum listed load. I have, and use about 6 different recent edition printed sources (manuals) before choosing what I want to try. Now days with the internet invention (thank you Al Gore) I am able to get into the components mfg. websites and compare their charts to others.

As far as posting answers that are well beyond my original basic question, I really don't mind them. It's all good info to read and I try to sift out the chaff and keep it all for future reference. The more I read or learn from these post, the more questions I need to ask, perhaps too many questions. But I don't mind asking as long as you guys keep responding. I won't turn a wheel of .270 loading for a few months. I just like to research and get ideas so I can start buying what equipment and components I need as I find them available at sale prices.

Once this thread slows down, I will copy and paste the info into a word processor, condense and file it with my other loading notes.

Most everyone is good about sharing their differences in opinions creating the checks and balances needed to keep on track. That's the beauty of this great TFL Forum.

There are tons of good info out there in the minds of experienced shooters and loaders. I’m grateful that most are willing to share it with me and others.

Thanks again to all….. and keep posting!
-
-

[cdoc42]

With no intention of starting a war here, I draw your attention, Leftoverdj, to the post made by our inquistor on 2/8/06 at 11:09 PM:

"How criticle is the Max OAL? How far over before I should trim?
I have a good dial caliper.

What about the tool/guage that measures the rifle (sorry I can't remember the name of the tool) chamber length. It's used I think to get the top end of the bullet shorter than the chamber (slightly) so the bullet does not get chambered tight into the rifiling area? I hope I explained this correctly. I think it has more to do with accuracy than safety but not sure."

Seems to me the discussion that followed tried to answer that.

It is not unusual in these forums for the discussion to go off on a tangent, but rarely do I, at least, find the information so invaluable as to consider it useless. Any posters here, willing to offer their experience to someone less knowledgable should hardly be disparaged.

[Foxman]

Im with CDOC42 100% on his reply, neither his answer or mine runs into loads of $ but gives repeatable results the sticking a bullet into the case is even less accurate than the other methods outlined for the same reason, repeatability. Our friend is wanting to punch paper so accuracy has to be his main aim. To do that you have to have every round the same and your measurements off the rifling have to be meaningful, else your just watering the wind. One of the best starting points for DeadNuts Zero is to go buy Gale McMillans book and read it over and then follow his advice! period