speer bullets in lee factory crimp die

Forgetful Dave · October 30, 2001, 10:21 PM

I recently finished reloading some 30-30 cartridges, when I noticed the instructions read "Speer advises that Speer bullets
not be used with certain Lee Dies. All other brands work great".
How interesting. It seems I may have read on this or another
website about a friendly (or not so friendly) rivalry between
Lee and Speer, rcbs, et al. Has anyone loaded speer bullets in
the F.C.D? I was using the speer 170 gr. fnsp. The dummy round I made chambered in both my model 94, and my 336.
Thanks in advance for any help.

Archie · October 30, 2001, 10:33 PM

Blount Industries, who also owns RCBS.

Does this answer any questions?

My experience with the Lee Factory Crimp dies is universally good. I would not concern myself with the alleged non-compatability.

Forgetful Dave · October 30, 2001, 10:50 PM

Thanks Archie. I suspected as much. I've heard a lot of good
about the f.c.d allso.

I thought it's more likely for two tools to do one thing well,than
for one tool to do two things well. If you follow my thinking.

LIProgun · October 31, 2001, 10:25 AM

I have also thought that Blount was taking a swipe at Lee here, but the logic doesn't hold up because Blount says "All other brands work great." If the issue was really competition, why would Blount give implicit approval to Hornady, Redding, Lyman, and other dies?

The only thing I can think of is this: Some Speer bullets are electroplated, and not jacketed. My experience is that some electroplated bullets do not react well to heavy crimps, especially when they have no cannelure. It seems the crimp deforms the bullet, in effect swaging it down, and reduces accuracy in the process. I have concluded that Speer's concern may be that the Lee Factory Crimp Die can deform Speer bullets if they are used to crimp outside the cannelure of certain bullets.

Bottom Gun · October 31, 2001, 11:01 AM

I believe it has to do with the jacket thickness of certain Speer bullets. The TNT series, for example.

stuckatwork · October 31, 2001, 12:10 PM

If you read the instructions on your Lee Factory Crimp Die, you will notice that it states:

"Only use the FCD with cannalured bullets". I don't remember seeing a Sierra bullet with a crimp cannalure. Of course, I load Matchkings mostly.

I load Sierra's all the time with Lee dies, never had a problem. Without a cannalur, you should be using a taper crimp.

Keith J · October 31, 2001, 02:44 PM

Richard Lee detailed this quirk. Its more legal than technical as there was some less that friendly discourse concerning crimping of non-cannuleured bullets with the FCD.

It all centered around an ad Lee ran concerning "overcoming the factory advantage". Truth in advertising led RCBS (parented by Blount) to try and dispel Lee's claim. RCBS could not duplicate the results Lee got.

The ads were pulled and both ran back into their corners. The warning was the outcome.

Dogjaw · November 3, 2001, 06:59 PM

I use Lee dies for 30-30 with the Speer 170 gr FN bullet. They shoot exactly the same point of aim as Hornady 170 grainers, with a 1-1/4" group at 100 yards with 4X scope. Go for it.

October 30, 2001, 10:21 PM	#1
Forgetful Dave Member Join Date: August 8, 2001 Location: SC Posts: 53	speer bullets in lee factory crimp die I recently finished reloading some 30-30 cartridges, when I noticed the instructions read "Speer advises that Speer bullets not be used with certain Lee Dies. All other brands work great". How interesting. It seems I may have read on this or another website about a friendly (or not so friendly) rivalry between Lee and Speer, rcbs, et al. Has anyone loaded speer bullets in the F.C.D? I was using the speer 170 gr. fnsp. The dummy round I made chambered in both my model 94, and my 336. Thanks in advance for any help. __________________ Rust never sleeps

October 30, 2001, 10:33 PM	#2
Archie Senior Member Join Date: May 26, 2000 Location: Hastings, Nebrasksa - the Hear Posts: 2,209	Speer is owned by... Blount Industries, who also owns RCBS. Does this answer any questions? My experience with the Lee Factory Crimp dies is universally good. I would not concern myself with the alleged non-compatability. __________________ There ain't no free lunch, except Jesus. Archie Check out updated journal at http://oldmanmontgomery.wordpress.com/

October 30, 2001, 10:50 PM	#3
Forgetful Dave Member Join Date: August 8, 2001 Location: SC Posts: 53	Thanks Archie. I suspected as much. I've heard a lot of good about the f.c.d allso. I thought it's more likely for two tools to do one thing well,than for one tool to do two things well. If you follow my thinking. __________________ Rust never sleeps

October 31, 2001, 10:25 AM	#4
LIProgun Senior Member Join Date: August 27, 2000 Location: Hudson Valley, NY Posts: 489	FWIW: I have also thought that Blount was taking a swipe at Lee here, but the logic doesn't hold up because Blount says "All other brands work great." If the issue was really competition, why would Blount give implicit approval to Hornady, Redding, Lyman, and other dies? The only thing I can think of is this: Some Speer bullets are electroplated, and not jacketed. My experience is that some electroplated bullets do not react well to heavy crimps, especially when they have no cannelure. It seems the crimp deforms the bullet, in effect swaging it down, and reduces accuracy in the process. I have concluded that Speer's concern may be that the Lee Factory Crimp Die can deform Speer bullets if they are used to crimp outside the cannelure of certain bullets. __________________ MOLON LABE. - Leonidas of Sparta, 480 B.C.

October 31, 2001, 12:10 PM	#6
stuckatwork Senior Member Join Date: March 3, 2000 Posts: 217	If you read the instructions on your Lee Factory Crimp Die, you will notice that it states: "Only use the FCD with cannalured bullets". I don't remember seeing a Sierra bullet with a crimp cannalure. Of course, I load Matchkings mostly. I load Sierra's all the time with Lee dies, never had a problem. Without a cannalur, you should be using a taper crimp. __________________ These are the words of Stuckatwork. They don't represent the views or opinions of my employers. They aren't that clever.

October 31, 2001, 11:01 AM	#5
Bottom Gun Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 1998 Location: Arizona Territory Posts: 1,092	I believe it has to do with the jacket thickness of certain Speer bullets. The TNT series, for example.

October 31, 2001, 02:44 PM	#7
Keith J Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2000 Posts: 469	Read his book Richard Lee detailed this quirk. Its more legal than technical as there was some less that friendly discourse concerning crimping of non-cannuleured bullets with the FCD. It all centered around an ad Lee ran concerning "overcoming the factory advantage". Truth in advertising led RCBS (parented by Blount) to try and dispel Lee's claim. RCBS could not duplicate the results Lee got. The ads were pulled and both ran back into their corners. The warning was the outcome.

November 3, 2001, 06:59 PM	#8
Dogjaw Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2001 Location: S.W. Michigan Posts: 560	I use Lee dies for 30-30 with the Speer 170 gr FN bullet. They shoot exactly the same point of aim as Hornady 170 grainers, with a 1-1/4" group at 100 yards with 4X scope. Go for it.