1858 Remington used in crime.

[sixshot]

Several threads I have read in the past had questions about using a cap and ball revolver for self defence. I found this article where an 1858 Remington
was used in a murder last year and is coming to trial. Just thought it might be of interest.

http://www.minotdailynews.com/news/s...new24news1.asp

[4V50 Gary]

Iris Chang, the author of The Rape of Nanking, purportedly used a Ruger Old Army to help herself across the river Styx.

[mec]

and about the same time a dude- i believe in Arkansas used a 61 navy replica to kill one of his criminal companions.

[Old Dragoon]

Sometime last year, I believe in Tenn. A criminal was shot and killed with a blackpowder pistol, seems he tried to do his thing on someone who was packing a black powder pistol. The good guy did the BG in and tossed the BP pistol. it was recovered, but the GG was never found. As far as I have heard. the BG's wounds were consistant with the BP revolver they found.

[Low Key]

Thanx for the link sixshot. I hate to see these guns used in crimes, , it makes it more likely that the liberals will come after us BP guys sooner rather than later to use us for their stupid political propaganda machine.

On the other side of that though, it does show that these guns will kill someone quick and they are most definitly not the toys that I have seen them called by a few people.

[Nortonics]

As I understand, over in Europe where smokeless powder handguns are outlawed to the general public, black-powder handguns are still legal, and often times used for home protection. I recall a particular story where the owner uses an Uberti 1858 replica and felt totally safe with its abilities to get the job done if needed. I couldn't agree more - with the rifled barrel they are extremely accurate. I'd stop in my tracks if I was looking down such a beast:

[mec]

That picture reminds me. A handgun hunter from the early '60s, Al Georg took to putting rifle scopes on handguns long before it became popular. One of the guns he did up was an orignal 58 Remington. He said he shot a bear with it and found the whole thing pretty exciting as he had to step around the cloud of smoke to see whether he had hit it. The bear was dead.

[Old Dragoon]

I LOVE MY REMMY"S....... and I think it is all due to Beartracker, Low Key, and a few others that I have them (or, ....do they have me?). I came to this forum looking for a BP pistol and was leaning towards a Walker Colt to convert to BP cartridge. After reading everything posted here for a few weeks it was apparent to me that my first choice had to be a Remmy due to the quick swapout of cylinders,,,C & B and Conversion.

I would not want to face any of the Colt's or Remmy's or any other C & B pistols ...unless I had one to arm myself with.

Now there is an Idea. a SS Remmy Target with a scope, or a Laser. Talk about the marraige of old tech and cutting edge tech. Uh Oh! I think I just added another Remmy to my wish list.....maybe after I get my '51 Navy.......

I know I sure loved my Model 629 Smith with the scope and my Super Redhawk with the Aimpoint....
A '58 Remmy with a scope has the same appeal......Now you've done it MEC!

[drdirk]

I think the problem with BP is less with ballistics but with the fact that they can not be kept loaded all the time. If you want to use a BP gun for home defense you would presumably leave it loaded in reach. I have tested how long I can leave my Pyrodex loaded BP Ruger around and still shoot it: In the humid summer, it is not a pretty picture: After only 2 weeks NONE of the cylinders would fire! A few years ago I left it also loaded with Pyrodex and I think it still shot after about a month, can't remember where and how I stored it. So, just a word of caution, one should be less concerend on how effective a BP revoler is but how reliably it will go BOOOM!

[Low Key]

As I understand, over in Europe where smokeless powder handguns are outlawed to the general public, black-powder handguns are still legal, and often times used for home protection.

Even though I have other large caliber handguns, I most often have my 58 laying neaby around the house for home defense. I don't feel the least bit under gunned and if 6 with the Rem 58 doesn't do me, it'll hold me out long enough to reach the 12 gauge plus I'll have a tactical smoke screen!

I think the problem with BP is less with ballistics but with the fact that they can not be kept loaded all the time. If you want to use a BP gun for home defense you would presumably leave it loaded in reach. I have tested how long I can leave my Pyrodex loaded BP Ruger around and still shoot it: In the humid summer, it is not a pretty picture: After only 2 weeks NONE of the cylinders would fire! A few years ago I left it also loaded with Pyrodex and I think it still shot after about a month, can't remember where and how I stored it. So, just a word of caution, one should be less concerend on how effective a BP revoler is but how reliably it will go BOOOM!

I keep at least one cylinder loaded all the time and usually shoot it out once a month and reload with fresh powder. I seal all the caps up with beeswax after loading so it's air (and probably water) tight. It always goes BOOM, the trick's in how you load the cylinder to keep it sealed tight and where you store the gun after loading. If you do it right, you could keep one loaded for years and still trust it to fire when needed.

[tatso7]

put a drop in cartridge conversion cylinder and load it with six or five 45 LC or 45 Schoefeld in your remy and you have a fearsome home defense weapon

[Nortonics]

Those are most certainly respectible calibers, to say the least.

Yet look at this. This is a scan of one of those shots in the above picture that I dug out of the hillside:



That's a 140 grains of .454 44 caliber round lead - being hit by something like that would certainly smart. It's killed many a man in it's day.

Look closely at that scan and you can actually see the rifling perfectly around the edge of the mushroom top.

[gmatov]

drdirk,

You contradict yourself when you say you would not depend on BP then say you have left a pistol loaded for 2 weeks with Pyrodex and it would not fire.

Pyrodex is not BP. It is a sub. It seems, from your instance, to be more hygroscopic. There have been rifles, without wax over the cap and nipple, taken from the mantle after 50 or more years that have been fired. People didn't even know they were still loaded, in some instances.

I wonder, also, of the higher corrosiveness of Pyrodex over real BP. Is there more corrosion in the innards from leaving the pistol loaded wit Pyrodex than there would be with real BP?

Because, even with the tilt here, and on other forums, as to the less corrosive properties of Pyrodex, it IS, in fact, more corrosive then real BP.

Try buying a can of BP, load and store for a month to 6, see if it fires when you need it.

Cheers,

George

[Low Key]

I wonder, also, of the higher corrosiveness of Pyrodex over real BP. Is there more corrosion in the innards from leaving the pistol loaded wit Pyrodex than there would be with real BP?

It's my understanding that pyrodex isn't corrosive until after it's been fired, the salts that are formed in the burning process are the corrosive part. I'm not saying that it's not less corrosive than bp after firing though, I keep my guns clean and have not had corrosive problems from either one.

The weather was nasty here over the weekend so I didn't get to go out and shoot any, I'm planning on shooting today if it's not raining. I'm going to shoot my cylinder thats been loaded with 40gr pyrodex p for over a month. I have every confidence that it will fire all 6 just as it should. I'll let you all know.

[Steve499]

I know from personal experience that a revolver with clean, dry chambers can be loaded with black powder, have the caps and chamber mouths sealed with beeswax, and fire without any problem after a period of at least 12 years. My own experiment is ongoing, there are some loaded chambers in that revolver yet to fire. The 12 year time cited above is an 'at least' time. I know that in 1994 it had been loaded for a while already, maybe even 2 or 3 years, but I hadn't realized until 1994 that I had an experiment in progress.

I'm also convinced the sealing with beeswax part isn't essential unless the revolver is dropped in water or stored in a sauna. I read on this forum somewhere that Robert E. Lee carried a loaded .36 through the entire war and it fired without any problems after the war ended.

Steve

[sundance44s]

Before i bought the drop in conversion cylinder i kept a cap and ball 44 remmie loaded in reach for home portection all the time , some times i would leave it loaded over 6 months before i would take it out and fire it .. but never a problem all 5 shot well. and it was pyrodex loaded .. of course i always swab the cylinders with a q tip and alcohol and let it dry before i loaded it . didn`t want the powder soaking up the oil in the cylinders . now i have a drop in for the B/P cartrages , and i don`t worrie about how long i leave it loaded . kinda of a large investment for the drop in .. but it was worth every penny . now i have my favorite pistol , with 45 colt cartrages , nice feeling .

[Low Key]

I know from personal experience that a revolver with clean, dry chambers can be loaded with black powder, have the caps and chamber mouths sealed with beeswax, and fire without any problem after a period of at least 12 years.

I was thinking that was you that told that story in another thread but I was too lazy to look it up. If I get to shoot today, I have no doubts that my cylinder will fire flawlessly but I like shooting the 40gr loads and this gives me an excuse to light off 6 shots of my max load once a month or so.

[Low Key]

Last night the weather was good so I did get to shoot. My cylinder has been loaded for over a month with 40gr pyrodex p, dry wad, lube pill and 454 ball on top, #11 CCI caps. All six chambers fired just as if I'd loaded them yesterday afternoon, no hangfires and all 6 made a nice big boom! I wiped everything down with windex soaked patches and re-lubed and reassembled everything. Good to go!

[sundance44s]

It is ok to pop caps before ya load to dry the oil ...( now days ) the caps we buy are like modern powders .. no corosive .. in the old days the caps were worse than the black powder its self for corosion . lots of the old guns ended up with terrible rusting and pitting around the nipple , and nipple drum . i`m just too cheap to waste my favorite hard to find caps .. so i swab with the alcohol to dry`em out .

[Mike Weber]

I was out shooting my C&B revolvers just this past sunday. One of the revolvers I took with me was a Pietta 1860 Colt repro. The 1860 had been left loaded with FFFg Goex for over a year, the caps had not been sealed with beeswax yet all six chambers fired off without a hitch. I took one of my neighbors who is a Korean War vet with me and who had never fired a percussion revolver. He put two bullets into a gallon milk jug at 25 yards on his very first try with the 1860. I've also got repro 1858 Remingtons with R&D conversion cylinders. I would not be the slightest bit reluctant to use them for home defense.

As per the original topic. I recall a store clerk down in Ft.Smith Arkansas back in 1978 who was approached by a robber armed with one of the El Cheapo .44 C&B's that were made to resemble an 1851 Colt The store clerk pulled his .357 mag and the robber quickly surrendered the C&B gun. as it turned out the robbers gun was not even loaded. The store clerk kept the C&B gun on display in the store for quite a few months after the incident.