Lake City 5.56 Powder

fhwiggins · July 23, 2009, 08:53 AM

Does anyone know what powder lake city uses for their military spec 5.56 NATO rounds specificaly the M855 62gr. green tip bullet?

freakshow10mm · July 23, 2009, 10:05 AM

Most likely H335 or IMR4895.

Mike40-11 · July 23, 2009, 07:14 PM

Olin WC844. Loads to Hodgdon H335 data.

freakshow10mm · July 23, 2009, 08:04 PM

Olin is long out of the powder business. St Marks took it over.

oldcspsarge · July 23, 2009, 08:39 PM

It is a cannister OEM powder not available to the public with a flash supressant in it.

rn22723 · July 23, 2009, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Olin is long out of the powder business. St Marks took it over.

Wonder where you learned that? Must have been recently......

freakshow10mm · July 23, 2009, 09:01 PM

I'm an OEM manufacturer. I use commercial powders not available to the general public. Olin doesn't make powder anymore. Olin sold the powder manufacturing facility to St Marks Powder Company who now runs the old factory that used to be Olin. Olin WC844 isn't made anymore, at least by that name.

**Mike Irwin** · July 23, 2009, 09:07 PM

It's been a number of years since Olin sold the powder business.

Mike40-11 · July 23, 2009, 09:08 PM

Right. It USED to be WC844. My understanding is that it's still pretty much the same powder and still matches H335 for load data.

And still not available to the public. There sure isn't going to be any 5.56 pulldown any time soon!

freakshow10mm · July 23, 2009, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Wonder where you learned that? Must have been recently......

Been several years. Olin sold their facility to St Marks Powder Company which is owned by General Dynamics which owns like 43 companies most of which are in the defense industry. GD supplies the military with 500 million rounds annually of 5.56, 7.62, and .50 BMG ammunition as well as millions of rounds of other ammunition and other weaponry. General Dynamics and the ATK group are two of the largest defense industry companies.

Quote:

Right. It USED to be WC844. My understanding is that it's still pretty much the same powder and still matches H335 for load data.

According to Hodgdon, H335 is used in military 5.56 NATO and BLC2 is used in 7.62 NATO. Winchester, once owned by Olin (I think they still own the Winchester brand for ammunition but everything else went to FNH) uses SMP powder. W231 is SMP 231 and is also marketed by Hodgdon as HP-38, W748 is SMP 748, Win Auto Comp is SMP 224. I think SMP 289 is the designation for W760 which is the same exact powder marketed by Hodgdon as H414. As I use more and more OEM-only powder I'm slowly decoding the branding the commercial canister distributors use for the St Marks Powder. It's like a puzzle and pretty fun.

Mike40-11 · July 23, 2009, 09:49 PM

I'm sure it is a puzzle.

I believe that St. Marks and Hodgdon are the only 2 left that actually make powder in the States.

snuffy · July 23, 2009, 09:52 PM

Quote:

I believe that St. Marks and Hodgdon are the only 2 left that actually make powder in the States.

Hodgdon doesn't MAKE any powder. It is simply a distributor of powder made all over the world. With the possible exception of pyrodex black powder substitute.

freakshow10mm · July 23, 2009, 10:07 PM

St Marks and Alliant make powder domestically. Hodgdon makes the BP substitute but they actually subcontract a local company to do it according to the Hodgdon guy I spoke with. Hodgdon mostly markets SMP and ADI powders. Ramshot handles SMP and Accurate brand. Most powder is made by SMP, ADI, and other countries like Sweden, Finland, Belgium.

Put it lightly, trying to figure out who owns what in the gun and powder business is like trying to figure out the auto industry on the same level. It will make a flow chart look like spaghetti noodles in no time flat.

thallub · July 24, 2009, 08:43 AM

My references say WC846 or IMR 8208M.

bayboy · July 24, 2009, 09:20 AM

WC846 is what's used in the 7.62mm M80 cartridge.

freakshow10mm · July 24, 2009, 09:33 AM

Quote:

My references say WC846 or IMR 8208M.

Your references are?

July 23, 2009, 08:53 AM	#1
fhwiggins Member Join Date: July 14, 2009 Posts: 36	Lake City 5.56 Powder Does anyone know what powder lake city uses for their military spec 5.56 NATO rounds specificaly the M855 62gr. green tip bullet?

July 23, 2009, 09:07 PM	#8
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,381	It's been a number of years since Olin sold the powder business. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

July 23, 2009, 10:05 AM	#2
freakshow10mm Junior member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Location: MI Posts: 1,398	Most likely H335 or IMR4895.

July 23, 2009, 07:14 PM	#3
Mike40-11 Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2005 Location: Missouri Posts: 842	Olin WC844. Loads to Hodgdon H335 data.

July 23, 2009, 08:04 PM	#4
freakshow10mm Junior member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Location: MI Posts: 1,398	Olin is long out of the powder business. St Marks took it over.

July 23, 2009, 08:39 PM	#5
oldcspsarge Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2008 Location: Rocky Mountains Posts: 441	It is a cannister OEM powder not available to the public with a flash supressant in it.

July 23, 2009, 09:01 PM	#7
freakshow10mm Junior member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Location: MI Posts: 1,398	I'm an OEM manufacturer. I use commercial powders not available to the general public. Olin doesn't make powder anymore. Olin sold the powder manufacturing facility to St Marks Powder Company who now runs the old factory that used to be Olin. Olin WC844 isn't made anymore, at least by that name.

July 23, 2009, 09:08 PM	#9
Mike40-11 Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2005 Location: Missouri Posts: 842	Right. It USED to be WC844. My understanding is that it's still pretty much the same powder and still matches H335 for load data. And still not available to the public. There sure isn't going to be any 5.56 pulldown any time soon!

July 23, 2009, 09:49 PM	#11
Mike40-11 Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2005 Location: Missouri Posts: 842	I'm sure it is a puzzle. I believe that St. Marks and Hodgdon are the only 2 left that actually make powder in the States.

July 23, 2009, 10:07 PM	#13
freakshow10mm Junior member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Location: MI Posts: 1,398	St Marks and Alliant make powder domestically. Hodgdon makes the BP substitute but they actually subcontract a local company to do it according to the Hodgdon guy I spoke with. Hodgdon mostly markets SMP and ADI powders. Ramshot handles SMP and Accurate brand. Most powder is made by SMP, ADI, and other countries like Sweden, Finland, Belgium. Put it lightly, trying to figure out who owns what in the gun and powder business is like trying to figure out the auto industry on the same level. It will make a flow chart look like spaghetti noodles in no time flat.

July 24, 2009, 08:43 AM	#14
thallub Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2007 Location: South Western OK Posts: 3,112	My references say WC846 or IMR 8208M.

July 24, 2009, 09:20 AM	#15
bayboy Junior Member Join Date: April 29, 2009 Posts: 5	WC846 is what's used in the 7.62mm M80 cartridge.