A cleaning Jag is my own worst enemy!!

[deerslayer303]

That or I'm gonna go broke buying the things. Took the GPR to the range yesterday, and that thing aggravated the tee total crap outta me. I got to fire it all of 1.5 times. The first time the loading / firing process went off without a hitch (she shot dead on at 25yards). Then I swabbed and reloaded, got nothing but the pop of the cap. HMMMM I KNOW I put a charge in there. Tried a couple more caps, nothing but the pop of the cap!! After I let the rifle sit, I tried to pull the ball with a very UNEASY feeling. It didn't work Just kept pulling the tool out of the ball. So Plan B: Removed the nipple and dribbled a little powder in the flash hole, reinstall nipple, cap, BANG!!! OK back in business, right? WRONG! Swabbing the barrel and got the jag stuck AGAIN, This rifle LOVES to hold onto a Jag! I tried the firing it out method but the FFg is just to big of a granule to get enough in the flash hole to do anything. So I took it home and got some FFFg in there and fired the jag across the yard. I honestly think the Precut MZ round, cotton cleaning patches I buy are too thick and bind up in the GPR's barrel. I am going to try to drop down to a .50 cal jag with the same patch. or a thinner patch with the .54 jag.

Another Q- Why do you guys suppose that in the Lyman manual they DO NOT recommend the use of a musket nipple? Thats what I have installed and I use 4 wing musket caps simply because they are easier for me to handle.

And if the rifle is shooting dead on at 25 yards, I need to RAISE the rear buck horn to get that 2 inches high at 25yards right? Trying to sight in the new barrel.

[mannyCA]

Stop it, you making me not want to shoot my GPR anymore!
sometimes its a comedy of errors...

[Hawg]

Forget the jag and get a bore mop and cut your patches at the muzzle.

[Pahoo]

Another Q- Why do you guys suppose that in the Lyman manual they DO NOT recommend the use of a musket nipple? Thats what I have installed and I use 4 wing musket caps simply because they are easier for me to handle.

Did not realize that they are excluding the musket caps, in writing. Two of my Hunters have been converted not so much for the hotter ignition but for the handling reasons you mentioned. I suspect they might be addressing increased flash, coming back at you as opposed to any "real" equipment damage. ...

And if the rifle is shooting dead on at 25 yards, I need to RAISE the rear buck horn to get that 2 inches high at 25yards right? Trying to sight in the new barrel.

Right

Good Luck and;
Be Safe !!!

[fdf]

Things you do not want to hear.

How does a person shoot one and a half times?
Why is it a she, did it come with mammary glands?
Did you follow the manufacturer’s instruction prior to shooting for cleaning.
Did you follow the manufacturer’s instruction prior to shooting.

“Another Q- Why do you guys suppose that in the Lyman manual they DO NOT recommend the use of a musket nipple? Thats what I have installed and I use 4 wing musket caps simply because they are easier for me to handle.”

Because they engineered and manufactured the rifle, I have a feeling they might know a bit more than you. Since you asked, they do.

“And if the rifle is shooting dead on at 25 yards, I need to RAISE the rear buck horn to get that 2 inches high at 25yards right? Trying to sight in the new barrel.”

Read the damn manual, it is very specific on how to adjust the sights, starting with what to do with the front sight.

Manual says shoot and file, shoot and file, shoot and file, etc.

[bedbugbilly]

Not sure why they recommend not using a musket cap - possibly because of the possibility of increased erosion in the bolster? Who knows? :roll eyes:

You might try taking a Jag (I'm assuming your's is .54?) and chuck it in the drill press and use a file to take a few thousandths off.

I feel your pain. I had a .32 Traditions that overall, was a nice shooting rifle. However, I ended up getting a patched ball stuck in the barrel about half-way down - sort of a ML "squib" so to speak. The rifle was used when I got it and the patched ball seemed to go down just fine - but after all the problems I had with it, I became convinced that there was a problem in the bore where the patch and jag got stuck even though there was nothing on the outside to indicate a bulge, etc.. I tried everything - removing nipple and feeding powder in, compressed air, etc. I oiled the bore well and let it sit a couple of days. Before I got done, the pinned ferrel on the end of my range rod pulled off! ThenI had a stuck ball with a ball screw and a ram rod ferrel attached.

Next step was to pull the barrel and I thought I could just pull the breech plug and carefully hammer out from the breech end. Traditions uses a weird system of installing their breech plugs and they have a set screw on one of the lower flats. I have worked on a lot of barrels over the years - old, new as well as breeching barrels. I could not get the breech plug to even budge. I finally was so disgusted with it that I scrapped the barrel and sold the rest of the stock and parts.

Sometimes things just "go wrong"!

[DD4lifeusmc]

Yes reading the manual helps, but I'll try not to be a wise ass etc.
Musket caps typically are larger in diameter, so one of their reasons, is it would not properly fit the factory nipple.
They are typically hotter, but because of the 90 degree turn, doubt there would be that much increased blow back from the full ignition, but could be.
As to the jag and patch getting stuck.
Most breech / chamber areas are a tad smaller than the bore of the barrel.
Thus a full 54 cal jag and a heavy patch could get stuck in there.
Same as a bronze bore brush.
You may want to go to a slotted tip jag for cleaning patches, this eliminates the excess diameter.
On adjusting your sights. Yes you raise the rear to raise the point of impact.
But don't assume 2 inches will be the correct amount. You still will need to sight in at 50 and 100yd or whatever your final distance will be.
Remember also a 20mph side wind can blow your round completely off target
so compensate for that as well.

[deerslayer303]

I need to clairify, I said manual, but I read it on the FAQ page on Lyman's website.
Q: Can I use musket nipples on my rifle?
A: No, we do not recommend the use of musket nipples on our rifles.

How does a person shoot one and a half times?

Simple, my definition of a shot is the whole process loading, aiming , firing and hitting what one is aiming at. Since the second time I was just successful in lighting of the charge.

Why is it a she, did it come with mammary glands?

Because its MY rifle and I can refer to it any way I wish.

Did you follow the manufacturer’s instruction prior to shooting for cleaning.
Did you follow the manufacturer’s instruction prior to shooting.

Actually yes, my process of loading and cleaning are built upon manufacturers instruction and tips and tricks I've learned from the POLITE gentlemen here, unlike yourself.

Because they engineered and manufactured the rifle, I have a feeling they might know a bit more than you. Since you asked, they do.

Agreed, but since I'm using a musket nipple on my rifle I was asking if I may be doing something wrong, as I don't remember seeing it in the manual.

Read the damn manual, it is very specific on how to adjust the sights, starting with what to do with the front sight.

Manual says shoot and file, shoot and file, shoot and file, etc.

I can't seem to locate my manual since my move back from TN, hence the reason why I asked the veterans here the question. And I KNEW that I didn't need to shoot file, shoot file, etc. as the rifle wasnt shooting high and I had a feeling I could make my adjustment with the rear sight and no filing required. But fyi I've downloaded and printed a new copy of the manual to put in my box. Now with all that said, one thing I do KNOW is that you seem to be a COMPLETE ASS and I'd appreciate it if you NEVER reply to one of my posts again. I'm surprised that the mods here have put up with 94 of your posts here so far. Good Day

[deerslayer303]

But don't assume 2 inches will be the correct amount. You still will need to sight in at 50 and 100yd or whatever your final distance will be.
Remember also a 20mph side wind can blow your round completely off target
so compensate for that as well.

Yeah I'm gonna move on out to 50 then 100, but I wanted to get a 2" high at 25 as a starting point. I've put a range finder on all our deer stands for this coming season and the greatest distance of all is 107 yards

[jimbob86]

Why is it a she, did it come with mammary glands?

Traditionally, in the days before Political Correctness reared it's ugly head everywhere that there were people looking to be offended (and since there's money in that, at times, that's pretty much Everywhere, these days), inanimate objects (ships, guns, storms, etc.) were given a feminine pronoun. Animals, until proven otherwise, were assumed to be male ...... from a distance it was a dog, until you saw it squat to pee- then it was a bitch. (Cue the proffesionally offended in 3 .... 2... 1.....) A pheasant was assumed to be a male pheasant ...... unless someone said "hen pheasant" ..... that's just the way it was before the country changed while I was away ..... I daresay I miss those days.

[Pahoo]

Read the damn manual, it is very specific on how to adjust the sights, starting with what to do with the front sight.

Hold on, "Honey". I have to see what it says in the manual. ......

One safety point, is to know your firearm and the manual is an important introduction. It only addresses the practicals and not the particulars. We have to work the rest of it out as we progress in our learning curve of this "Great Adventure". I really get nervous when I see a shooter at the range, with a new opened box and he is reading the manual. .....

Lyman as well as other manufactures, will gladly provide you with a free manual. Just give them a call.


Be Prepared and;
Be Safe !!!

[Hawg]

Manuals are lawyerized. They have some good info but some of it needs to be taken with a grain of salt and their way may not always be the best way of doing something.

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

Funny Lyman doesn't recommend the use of musket caps. But its understandable. Liability reasons probably take precedence.

I've been using musket caps for quite some time on my 54 over Gorex 2-FF only. Before they became almost impossible to find my preferred brand of musket cap was and still is RWS. Haven't encountered a single misfire yet with their use. CCI Reenactment Musket Caps on the other hand are just a pain. Misfires galore. I do believe that word: (Reenactment) has a hidden meaning after all when it comes to using CCI's 4-wing's on a >rifle.

BTW: Nice to hear from you again D/S-303. Been awhile.

[deerslayer303]

BTW: Nice to hear from you again D/S-303. Been awhile.

Thank you Sir! Its nice to be back.

And back when I was in TN, I found a little mom and pop store that had Dynamit Nobel no. 1081 musket caps in stock. I bought all she had when she told me they have been there a while and were not a popular seller. I guess now we are down to CCI 4 wing caps being our only option, huh?

[Captchee]

There are a few reasons why one may not recommend the use of musket caps . But frankly the Lyman rifles are of good enough quality to negate those .
But if they say not to , then while it maybe lawyers talking , it doesn’t really mater as they are saying no . so if you do chose to use the musket caps then your on your own .
As to your problems .
First the lyman has a type of improved breech design in that you have a sub bore size anti chamber . Then a flash channel going to that chamber .
So when you swab your barrel , your get wet fouling back in that anti chamber . Then when you load on top of it you get the effect of a fouled wet flash channel . IE any powder that went down there is contaminated . So its best to pop a cap to clear the channel and help insure its dry .

Next concerning your cleaning jag ..
If your using a button type jag with a larger diameter rod , there may not be room for the patch to properly be pulled back out . Especially if your using a larger cleaning patch and or running it down dry . What happens is the patch wads up around the jag and jams it tight in the bore . Using a smaller diameter rod , smaller patch OR a necked down cleaning jag which has a longer neck that tapers to the button end . This gives an area for the patch to wad up and slip so you can pull it out .

As to the traditions breech plug which was mentioned by another poster .
Traditions sometimes have a small screw that locks the breech . However you must also remove the bolster , if it’s a cap lock or the flash hole liner if it’s a flintlock as both of these also thread into the breech threads .
Their plugs can be very hard to get out and often times removing the plug will distort the plug threads

[Pahoo]

There are a few reasons why one may not recommend the use of musket caps .

Okay, what might they be? Not testing you, just want to know those reasons. I can only think of one that has little or nothing to do with the rifle. The only one I can think of, has more to do with cap fragments coming back at you when you are not wearing eye protection. I often go back and forth on all M/L's rifles with #11's and Muskets. I always shoot with eye protection. ....

Be Safe !!!

[Captchee]

Well
one would be blow back and the lack of the ability of the lock itself to control it with the larger flash channel .
Again not an issue with the lyman . While the lock itself isn’t as strong as period musket lock , I would think its still strong enough
Another would be bolster design . But the Lyman carries the heavier improved breech.
The other that might be a consideration would be possible movement of the main charge during ignition as suggested by the masters at Liege . Thus the ability of the barrel and breech being able to withstand resulting pressure . Myself I don’t see how the Lyman would be effected by that as it carries both a reasonable barrel and breech .

[Hawg]

I do believe that word: (Reenactment) has a hidden meaning after all when it comes to using CCI's 4-wing's on a >rifle.

Actually it does. CCI downloaded their musket caps after a reenactor had one shred on him with a blank charge. The weak ones say reenactor on the tin. The strong ones I believe say all purpose or something to that effect and are IIRC six wing caps. I use RWS myself.