April 9, 2016, 09:47 AM | #1 |
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$1,000 tax on handguns
Apparently there's more ways to circumvent the US Constitution.
Can't pass a law that doesn't violate handgun ownership? A federal judge strikes down the attempted law. No problem, just tax it so high hardly anyone can buy one. Didn't the Greatest Generation fight and die to wrestle this place away from fascists? http://freebeacon.com/issues/mariana...-1000-gun-tax/
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April 9, 2016, 10:20 AM | #2 |
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Dont they know that all this will do is encourage smuggling?
Every time they pull this stuff they just empower the criminal element.
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April 9, 2016, 10:33 AM | #3 | |
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April 9, 2016, 10:35 AM | #4 |
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With US protection you get US laws. Maybe we should end the Trust Territory mandate and let the Chinese sail in whenever they feel like it.
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April 9, 2016, 10:42 AM | #5 |
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Here is the thing though. Its not an executive order that's imposing the tax.
its their legislature that's doing it. They voted for them, Now they are getting what they deserve. Thats why you have to educate, educate and fight for every vote. Sooner or latter we will be in the same boat. The masses will gleefully vote away our freedom for some preconceived notion of security.
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April 9, 2016, 10:45 AM | #6 | |
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Imagine were we would be had they never passed prohibition. We would still be able to buy some Tommy guns and the FBI would still only be an investigation service unarmed with no arrest powers.
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April 9, 2016, 11:04 AM | #7 |
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We worked with NMI guys on a national project.
I'll be tactful and just note that maybe that's one place the citizens *shouldn't* be encouraged to have guns (or sticks, rocks or any hard objects weighing more than a few ounces). It's a ***REALLY*** different mindset.
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April 9, 2016, 11:43 AM | #8 |
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Same as an unreasonable Poll Tax. Even the Ninth Circus is likely to overturn THAT one.
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April 9, 2016, 05:04 PM | #9 |
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Well, on the off chance that this one gets to court and is struck down as an unconstitutional tax on a natural right, I suppose that could be used to put judicial scrutiny on the NFA taxes?
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April 9, 2016, 06:38 PM | #10 | |
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April 9, 2016, 09:14 PM | #11 |
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I can't see a court declaring silencers to be in common use and voiding the NFA requirements without doing the same for automatic weapons, they are also in common usage where permitted and restricted in numbers only by fiat, not by demand.
Look for any action on silencers to come through Congress. |
April 10, 2016, 09:26 AM | #12 | |
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Nationwide push to allow suppressors for game hunting.
"sporting purpose" and "common use" That is why you should support those efforts in your state irrespective on your stance regarding use in sport hunting. As ideologically offensive as I find the "sporting purpose" angle, just typing that brought that basic waterbrash pre-vomit taste into my mouth, I'm pragmatic enough to get behind it. I've heard, but have no hard data, sales increase significantly in states allowing it. That helps with common use. I think there is considerable precedent for challenging specific parts of a law without challenging a law in its entirety. Quote:
NRA has shown absolutely no interest in pursuing the issue. I would be surprised if NRA would issue a clear public statement indicating they are opposed to the registry closure. My understanding is, at least as of a few years ago, SAF has indicated it is very low priority until other issues are resolved with further groundwork laid and will only be considered currently if a PERFECT case comes along. I don't think any state groups both have the resources and are interested. Several issue specific groups have started and floundered. The NFA owner groups don't strongly support any changes as their members would lose considerable value of their assets. Consider one member here who has, by my estimation, over $500,000 worth of automatics and possibly over a $1,000,000. If restrictions were removed he would likely lose hundreds of thousands of dollars as they are reduced to 1/10th or less of their value. Some owners don't care about that loss saying they would love to be able to buy more, but others do worry about their "investment". Automatics seem to be an absolutely dead issue at this time. I say this as someone who has offered money to any group(s) capable and willing to pick up the banner. If anyone knows a competent group willing to take on the registry closing, I'd love to know about it. Last edited by johnwilliamson062; April 10, 2016 at 09:35 AM. |
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April 10, 2016, 10:15 AM | #13 | |
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Those taxes haven't been changed since 1934. And while $200 was HUGE in 1934 (deliberately so), its not so much today. Whip out your inflation calculators and see what that $200 is in today's dollars! The High court are masters of saying what they mean, but what they say, and mean is not always what we, the public is told what they mean. Particularly in firearms cases. The "in common use" phrasing from Heller is one example. Most people think the court said that it is constitutional to restrict arms that are not "in common use". (in effect saying that since NFA arms are not in common use its ok to restrict them, seeming to ignore the fact that the reason they are not in common use is that they ARE restricted..) However, that ISN"T exactly what the court said. To understand what they meant, you have to understand the (usually unwritten) context. The apparent upholding of restrictions on arms "not in common use" is an overbroad take on a very specific statement, taken out of context. The High court ruled on a specific law in a specific case, and was not ruling on other laws at that time. What was said, essentially was "since we are not looking at other laws at this time, we shall assume the laws covering arms not in common use are valid" This is entirely within the court's authority, to assume ALL laws are valid UNTIL/unless they are brought to the court for review. This does not mean that the laws ARE constitutionally valid, ONLY that they are assumed to be, UNTIL the court rules otherwise on them. And for that to happen, a case must come before the court, AND the court agree to hear it. They did a similar thing back in the day with the Miller case, the decision on which the NFA 34 stands. Do some research and you will find that the Miller case was completely botched by our side, in fact the defense didn't even show up! NO evidence was presented against the Govt's case. And that is what the Supreme Court ruled. They ruled that since no evidence had been presented, the Govt's case stood. They did NOT rule the NFA was Constitutional, they ruled that they had been presented no evidence that it was not. What everyone assumed, and has said ever since is that the Court "upheld" the NFA, and therefore it was constitutional. This has lead us to our present situation. The $1000 tax was passed by their legislature, and appears it will be the law. The intent clearly seems punitive to me, and might be fought in court, but, UNTIL it is settled by our court system it will BE the law.
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April 12, 2016, 05:42 PM | #14 | ||
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The 1934 NFA passed by the previous generation (and the same one actually running the WWII effort, though they don't get credit for winning the war as much) did exactly what you describe. Machineguns and pistols were to be made prohibitively expensive so undesirable immigrants, minorities, and political groups could not oppose the government or possess a practical means for self defense from their toadies. Silencers were treated similarly so the public could not poach on federal land to sustain itself during the darkest depths of the Depression. Quote:
Ironically, an inflation adjustment might provide a means to contest the insanely long ATF processing times for tax stamps; a four month wait intended to disenfranchise is one thing (apparently), but a long wait intended for the same that also costs you more money is 'damages' It's coming to a head. The legal arguments are piling up faster than the ATF can handwave them away, and are rapidly painting themselves into a corner. Two scenarios are likely; we begin to stop enforcement of these laws as a way of avoiding the constitutional inconsistencies (i.e. where marijuana is heading) or we start getting increasingly aggressive court rulings that dismember the enforcement authority. A New Orleans court already appears poised to strike down or enjoin the closure of the machine gun registry as I type... TCB
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April 12, 2016, 08:12 PM | #15 |
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According to my handy dandy inflation calculator (http://www.usinflationcalculator.com), $200 in 1934 would equal $3538.97 in today's dollars.
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April 13, 2016, 12:41 AM | #16 |
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$1,000 tax on handguns
It should be thrown out in Court if it passes. It would amount to forbidding the purchase of handguns to most Citizens.
As far as NFA the Hughes Amendment did not pass, but was put on the books.. There's a good? chance that the Trump Administration will take it off the books, as not legal. |
April 13, 2016, 05:28 AM | #17 | |
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April 13, 2016, 07:07 AM | #18 |
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An excessive tax on handguns should be struck down by the courts but I'm not sure it will be as the courts in general seem to be pretty anti-gun. Any excessive tax on guns would be like an excessive tax on free speech (such as the internet, newspapers, etc). While placing an excessive tax on any Constitutional right should be struck down by the courts, the courts may rule that as long as you have access to some kind of gun, your 2nd Amendment rights are being upheld; that kind of reasoning is like saying as long as you can still talk about some topic, that your 1st Amendment rights are being upheld.
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April 13, 2016, 10:42 AM | #19 | |
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(FAET was first imposed in 1919. The Pitmann-Robertson Act of 1937 mandated that all revenue from FAET and related excise taxes be earmarked for hunting related activities. The United States Fish and Wildlife Commission places revenue that is collected in a trust fund that is administered on behalf of the states.)
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April 13, 2016, 11:40 AM | #20 |
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Are you also aware that the Pittman-Robertson tax is applied to bows, arrows, and fishing poles as well? Probably some other "sporting" equipment, too.
There is a significant difference between something like a $1,000 tax, imposed as a punitive measure, an attempt to "price pistols out of the market" and a (reasonable) tax imposed at the wholesale level, used to support conservation work for fish & game, and supported by the industry at the time of, and ever since its passage.
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April 13, 2016, 12:04 PM | #21 |
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The 'fishing' parallel of Pittman-Robertson was enacted in 1950 as the Dingell-Johnson Act.
Both of these have done more for wildlife conservation than all the anti's-hunting / fishing efforts combined. |
April 13, 2016, 12:31 PM | #22 | |
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April 13, 2016, 08:38 PM | #23 |
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The original National Firearms Act, drawn up by FDR's humorless, nut-case Attorney General, Homer Cummings, imposed taxes and registration on all guns and ammunition. I don't recall the exact numbers, but it was something like $50 for a shotgun, $200 for a rifle, $500 for a handgun and $1000 for a machine gun. In addition, each shotgun shell was taxed at $1, .22 at $50, rifle ammo at $2 a round, and handgun ammo at $5. Silencers and other stuff was taxed like machine guns.
It is often forgotten today, but FDR was very anti-gun. Some say that he planned to order the army to disperse Congress and take over as dictator - a common idea in the world at the time (1934), remember - and there is evidence to support that view. He never went the whole way, though he became president for life, but we got the NFA, the first FEDERAL gun "control" law. I think the inflation calculator used above is off a bit, and the real rate in purchasing power would be closer to 30:1 2016 dollars vs 1934 dollars, making $200 equal to $6000. The tax was, and was intended to be, prohibitory. Jim |
April 13, 2016, 08:47 PM | #24 |
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Over the years, sportsmen, through the excise taxes and license fees have contributed millions, if not billions of dollars to conservation works.
All the moneys contributed by animal rights groups "for the animals" go where? What percentage actually gets to benefit animals? I don't know, but I expect somewhat less than 100%. Excise tax money and license fees, (from the many states where the fees do NOT go into the general fund) go to conservation work. I have not found any reference to any opposition to the taxes. Both sportsmen groups and the industry supported them. We pay our share, and then some.
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April 13, 2016, 08:48 PM | #25 |
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You could take care of yourself and family at better than a subsistence level on $1000 a year in 1934. That $200 was ten per cent of the price of a new house on a town lot. Big bucks in those days. This is why the Bonus Army, veterans who were promised $20 a year upon application in 1945, formed together and marched on Washington DC in the hope of receiving a sum about equal to the NFA tax, although they certainly did not want the money to register war trophies.
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