A little 38 Reloading Help

metro424 · October 29, 2012, 10:34 PM

Going by Lyman Reloading Manual I have loaded 50 rounds of 38 special, 158 grain semi wadcutter, to a coal of 1.45 inches and 3.6 grains of w231.

Now here is my question Hodgdon is showing a coal of 1.475 with 3.1 to 3.7 grains of W231. Is the hodgdon website extra conservative with their 38 special loads or is Lyman producing extra pressure loading?

Thanks.

These will be shot though a Smith and Wesson Model 64

chris in va · October 29, 2012, 10:41 PM

I noticed the same with IMR and my Lyman manual. One IMR 9mm load has a max charge of 3.5, while the book shows 4.1. Kinda scary if you ask me.

jimbob86 · October 29, 2012, 10:41 PM

Quote:

38 special, 158 grain semi wadcutter

Lead or jacketed?

Looking at my manuals, 3.6 grains is a pretty light load for either lead or jacketed ......
Still, you should start at a published start load, and work up.....

metro424 · October 29, 2012, 10:57 PM

Lead.

Ive used Lyman Reloading Manual for 5.56, 9mm and 45 and been pleased with the results. I try to keep 1 print resource and I use the Hodgdon website as my secondary resource

joneb · October 30, 2012, 12:04 AM

I load 158 LSWC with 4-4.2gr of W231 for 38 spl with standard primers.
I shoot these in a old S&W M 36 and a old S&W M 10-5
When I get a different powder lot I load 3.8gr and work back up, I always end up at 4-4.2gr.

reloader28 · October 30, 2012, 08:41 AM

Your asking about .1gr??
Wow, it seems most book variations are about .5gr or more for pistols. Thats why you supposed to work up your load for your gun. Chances are you'll be past 3.7gr

jimbob86 · October 30, 2012, 08:46 AM

Lee 2nd Ed. start load for 158gr lead is 4.0 gr of W231. Just sayin'.....

metro424 · October 30, 2012, 09:42 AM

The issue wasn't 0.1 grain difference it was that the starting load for Lyman was close to the max load for Hodgdon, which is what had me questioning my data.

It seems that the general consensus is that these loads should be fine and if anything they may be a little on the slow velocity side. This revolver is rated for +p but there is no need to inadvertently subject it to +p loads.

Thanks for the help, Just trying to keep it safe.

Again, Thanks!

Sevens · October 30, 2012, 12:52 PM

.38 Special is a great way to get your feet wet in handloading. IMNSHO, it's BY FAR the best round to begin with for a slew of reasons. It's even just a little bit better if you work up your first loads in a .357 Magnum revolver, so you have an enormous margin of safety. But the truth is that any modern Smith & Wesson Model 64 will take a helluva lot more abuse than you should even even consider feeding it.

I say this to give you the confidence to produce your ammo -- I don't say it for you to develop bad habits. All other calibers aren't NEARLY as forgiving. .38 Special is a crazy low pressure round. Most everything else that is popular, with the exception of .45 Auto, runs a much higher pressure.

Again, IMO, the biggest risk for new handloaders in .38 Special is being over-cautious and inadvertently sticking a bullet in their bore by being to cautious with starting loads. Using a lead bullet is a good guard against that -- they don't offer nearly as much resistance and aren't as likely to stick in a bore.

Quote:

Going by Lyman Reloading Manual I have loaded 50 rounds of 38 special

If these are your first loads, don't load 50 of anything. A better idea is to load 15-20 rounds at a certain powder level, 15-20 more at a higher powder level (by, say, 0.3 grains) and 15-20 more at a higher powder level. If loading revolver rounds, let's say you load 12 or 18 rounds of each, for obvious reasons.

Take THOSE rounds out and shoot them, say one cylinderful of each to feel, inspect and examine and ensure they function and are safe.

Then 6 of each to compare with each other. Maybe bring some factory ammo for comparison as well.

Maybe the last 6 of each for a little informal target work, see if you spot any trends.

It's not until you find a load that you are sure is safe, functions properly and runs well that you build 50...100... or 500 of them.

metro424 · October 30, 2012, 03:56 PM

I completely understand, I started out reloading 45acp and found that all the data was fairly consistent in regards to 230 grain round nose bullets.

I am fairly new to reloading having only reloaded 2000 or so total rounds most of those being 45acp and 9mm.

I reload in increments of 50, I've found that i get a much better feel for the quality over 50 rounds than a smaller data set. My first 50 of a new caliber always has me a bit nervous until I find a powder level and coal that works for me. After that I don't change it up much. I don't go for absolute accuracy nor do I like to push case pressures to the max, a nice middle ground is really all I care for.

PA-Joe · October 30, 2012, 06:08 PM

Powder makers list lower charges to reduce their liability. Bullet makers show higher charges to give their bullets higher velocities. They all play games by using different lenght test barrels too.

Misssissippi Dave · October 30, 2012, 07:00 PM

I normally load 10 rounds of a given amount of powder. I increase one tenth of a grain and load 10 more until I reach one tenth under max. Normally I will find about 3 or 4 of these loads that work better than the rest of them. I will load 25 of each of these loads to further check them out. If one stands out I load 50 to 100 to see how it works over a greater test. If there doesn't seem to be much difference I will load the middle of the group and test 100.

This method has worked well for me.

MarkDozier · November 1, 2012, 02:18 AM

I have done a 100 with 3.1 grains of HP-38/w231
abd a 100 with 3.7 grains if same. When I can shoot again i will share the results

m&p45acp10+1 · November 1, 2012, 10:44 AM

I would say to check the COAL as well as the starting load. Many times when you see a load listed with a way lighter starting charge the bullet is seated deeper. I see this a lot in 9mm Luger loads. It seems they go with a lighter charge, and the bullet seated deeper. My guess is as a just in case some one seats a bullet deeper they will not over presure the round. In .38 spcl I would say start at the lowest, and work up.

I prefer to use Trail Boss with 158 grain home cast LSWC. Clean burning, and quite accurate.

3leggeddog · November 2, 2012, 06:30 PM

3.1 of w231 is pretty low,watch for one stuck in your barrel! The new Lyman Pistol +Revolver Book shows a starting load of 3.6 of w231 for 158 lswc . Once I made 25 rds of 3.2 grs of bullseye for a 9mm auto. NOT enough power to work the slide. So I had 24 rds I couldnt use! Anything new I start with 10 rds.. 100,no,no ......

Misssissippi Dave · November 2, 2012, 07:55 PM

The Speer #14 book shows 3.8 to 4.3 grains of W231 powder with a 158 grain LSWC bullet. The COAL is 1.440". You may be loading a bit too light. W231 also burns cleaner as you approach the upper end of the load data.

I should note they also list HP38 with a starting load of 3.6 and a max. of 4.1. That is strange since it is the same powder.

rebs · November 4, 2012, 11:55 AM

Does anyone use bullseye or unique in 38 spl loads ?

McClintock · November 4, 2012, 05:30 PM

I use Bullseye in my .38 Special (and also for 9mm, so I can make use of the same powder). My target load is 3.3 grains of BE pushing a 158 grain Speer lead semi-wadcutter. These move downrange at roughly 710 fps through my 6" Smith & Wesson Model 10. I don't have a COAL for you, I do crimp them in the upper crimp groove. I find this is the most accurate load I have come up with so far in MY handgun. Since I use this for PPC competition, I'm not looking for a hot load, accuracy is more important to me.

Hope that helps.

Cheers!
McClintock

spacecoast · November 4, 2012, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Does anyone use bullseye or unique in 38 spl loads ?

Both. 2.8 gr. of Bullseye pushing a 148 gr. Wadcutter is a standard .38 special target load. 3.7 gr. of Unique behind a 158 gr. LSWC is a mild target load, 4.3 grains is a little warmer.

TheTinMan · November 4, 2012, 10:31 PM

IRRC there is something peculiar about Hodgdon's load data for a 158 gr LSWC. Specifically the COAL being shorter indicating a different bullet shape. Also, look at the pressures listed. I know that the Hornady manual "maximum" for their soft, swaged lead bullets is based on max velocity, not pressure.

It's important to read all of the detail available with load data. Primer, COAL, barrel length, etc. all affect the data.

Jimro · November 5, 2012, 08:16 AM

I use Unique. The revolver is my wife's Charter Arms 38 special, rated for +P loads.

Alliant lists 4.7gr as max charge with a 158gr LSWC for regulare 38 Spl, and 5.2 grains for 38 SPC +P. Which if you do the "reduce by 10% and work up" load development, the starting load for the +P charge would be 4.7gr, the max charge for normal 38 Spl.

Reloading pistol always scares me more than reloading rifle. It's dang near impossible to get a double charge in a rifle case (using appropriate powder).

Jimro

ELMOUSMC · November 5, 2012, 03:34 PM

I am looking for a good moderate load for 38 special 38+p and 357 loads for my Rossi carbine.I like the 125 JHP in all 3 but I am not sure if I can find a powder and loads that I can use in all 3 cartridges
I am thinking that a velocity of around 900fps in the .38 special and about 1000+ in the +P and in the .357 some where in the range of 1300+ FPS
I carry the rifle in my tractor and it go's with me when I walk fences and wander in the woods along the river.I jump a lot of "yotes" and most of my shots are from 50 to about 100 yds.so maybe that will help give you all an idea what I am looking for loads
Thanks, good luck and good shooting
God bless us all and the United States
ELMO

November 2, 2012, 06:30 PM	#15
3leggeddog Member Join Date: December 18, 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 68	38 special 3.1 of w231 is pretty low,watch for one stuck in your barrel! The new Lyman Pistol +Revolver Book shows a starting load of 3.6 of w231 for 158 lswc . Once I made 25 rds of 3.2 grs of bullseye for a 9mm auto. NOT enough power to work the slide. So I had 24 rds I couldnt use! Anything new I start with 10 rds.. 100,no,no ......

November 4, 2012, 05:30 PM	#18
McClintock Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2008 Location: The Bald Prairie of Southern Saskatchewan, Canada Posts: 305	Bullseye for .38 Special I use Bullseye in my .38 Special (and also for 9mm, so I can make use of the same powder). My target load is 3.3 grains of BE pushing a 158 grain Speer lead semi-wadcutter. These move downrange at roughly 710 fps through my 6" Smith & Wesson Model 10. I don't have a COAL for you, I do crimp them in the upper crimp groove. I find this is the most accurate load I have come up with so far in MY handgun. Since I use this for PPC competition, I'm not looking for a hot load, accuracy is more important to me. Hope that helps. Cheers! McClintock

November 5, 2012, 08:16 AM	#21
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	I use Unique. The revolver is my wife's Charter Arms 38 special, rated for +P loads. Alliant lists 4.7gr as max charge with a 158gr LSWC for regulare 38 Spl, and 5.2 grains for 38 SPC +P. Which if you do the "reduce by 10% and work up" load development, the starting load for the +P charge would be 4.7gr, the max charge for normal 38 Spl. Reloading pistol always scares me more than reloading rifle. It's dang near impossible to get a double charge in a rifle case (using appropriate powder). Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

November 5, 2012, 03:34 PM	#22
ELMOUSMC Senior Member Join Date: June 26, 2007 Location: N.E.IOWA Posts: 384	38/357 loads in a rossi 20in carbine I am looking for a good moderate load for 38 special 38+p and 357 loads for my Rossi carbine.I like the 125 JHP in all 3 but I am not sure if I can find a powder and loads that I can use in all 3 cartridges I am thinking that a velocity of around 900fps in the .38 special and about 1000+ in the +P and in the .357 some where in the range of 1300+ FPS I carry the rifle in my tractor and it go's with me when I walk fences and wander in the woods along the river.I jump a lot of "yotes" and most of my shots are from 50 to about 100 yds.so maybe that will help give you all an idea what I am looking for loads Thanks, good luck and good shooting God bless us all and the United States ELMO __________________ USMC 1965-1992 For God,Country,Corps

October 29, 2012, 10:34 PM	#1
metro424 Junior Member Join Date: January 18, 2005 Posts: 9	A little 38 Reloading Help Going by Lyman Reloading Manual I have loaded 50 rounds of 38 special, 158 grain semi wadcutter, to a coal of 1.45 inches and 3.6 grains of w231. Now here is my question Hodgdon is showing a coal of 1.475 with 3.1 to 3.7 grains of W231. Is the hodgdon website extra conservative with their 38 special loads or is Lyman producing extra pressure loading? Thanks. These will be shot though a Smith and Wesson Model 64

October 29, 2012, 10:41 PM	#2
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	I noticed the same with IMR and my Lyman manual. One IMR 9mm load has a max charge of 3.5, while the book shows 4.1. Kinda scary if you ask me.

October 29, 2012, 10:57 PM	#4
metro424 Junior Member Join Date: January 18, 2005 Posts: 9	Lead. Ive used Lyman Reloading Manual for 5.56, 9mm and 45 and been pleased with the results. I try to keep 1 print resource and I use the Hodgdon website as my secondary resource

October 30, 2012, 12:04 AM	#5
joneb Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2005 Location: Central , OR Posts: 1,888	I load 158 LSWC with 4-4.2gr of W231 for 38 spl with standard primers. I shoot these in a old S&W M 36 and a old S&W M 10-5 When I get a different powder lot I load 3.8gr and work back up, I always end up at 4-4.2gr.

October 30, 2012, 08:41 AM	#6
reloader28 Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2009 Location: nw wyoming Posts: 1,061	Your asking about .1gr?? Wow, it seems most book variations are about .5gr or more for pistols. Thats why you supposed to work up your load for your gun. Chances are you'll be past 3.7gr

October 30, 2012, 08:46 AM	#7
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	Lee 2nd Ed. start load for 158gr lead is 4.0 gr of W231. Just sayin'.....

October 30, 2012, 09:42 AM	#8
metro424 Junior Member Join Date: January 18, 2005 Posts: 9	The issue wasn't 0.1 grain difference it was that the starting load for Lyman was close to the max load for Hodgdon, which is what had me questioning my data. It seems that the general consensus is that these loads should be fine and if anything they may be a little on the slow velocity side. This revolver is rated for +p but there is no need to inadvertently subject it to +p loads. Thanks for the help, Just trying to keep it safe. Again, Thanks!

October 30, 2012, 03:56 PM	#10
metro424 Junior Member Join Date: January 18, 2005 Posts: 9	I completely understand, I started out reloading 45acp and found that all the data was fairly consistent in regards to 230 grain round nose bullets. I am fairly new to reloading having only reloaded 2000 or so total rounds most of those being 45acp and 9mm. I reload in increments of 50, I've found that i get a much better feel for the quality over 50 rounds than a smaller data set. My first 50 of a new caliber always has me a bit nervous until I find a powder level and coal that works for me. After that I don't change it up much. I don't go for absolute accuracy nor do I like to push case pressures to the max, a nice middle ground is really all I care for.

October 30, 2012, 06:08 PM	#11
PA-Joe Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2010 Location: NEPA Posts: 909	Powder makers list lower charges to reduce their liability. Bullet makers show higher charges to give their bullets higher velocities. They all play games by using different lenght test barrels too.

October 30, 2012, 07:00 PM	#12
Misssissippi Dave Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Posts: 1,411	I normally load 10 rounds of a given amount of powder. I increase one tenth of a grain and load 10 more until I reach one tenth under max. Normally I will find about 3 or 4 of these loads that work better than the rest of them. I will load 25 of each of these loads to further check them out. If one stands out I load 50 to 100 to see how it works over a greater test. If there doesn't seem to be much difference I will load the middle of the group and test 100. This method has worked well for me.

November 1, 2012, 02:18 AM	#13
MarkDozier Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2010 Posts: 363	I have done a 100 with 3.1 grains of HP-38/w231 abd a 100 with 3.7 grains if same. When I can shoot again i will share the results

November 1, 2012, 10:44 AM	#14
m&p45acp10+1 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 3,930	I would say to check the COAL as well as the starting load. Many times when you see a load listed with a way lighter starting charge the bullet is seated deeper. I see this a lot in 9mm Luger loads. It seems they go with a lighter charge, and the bullet seated deeper. My guess is as a just in case some one seats a bullet deeper they will not over presure the round. In .38 spcl I would say start at the lowest, and work up. I prefer to use Trail Boss with 158 grain home cast LSWC. Clean burning, and quite accurate. __________________ No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.

November 2, 2012, 07:55 PM	#16
Misssissippi Dave Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Posts: 1,411	The Speer #14 book shows 3.8 to 4.3 grains of W231 powder with a 158 grain LSWC bullet. The COAL is 1.440". You may be loading a bit too light. W231 also burns cleaner as you approach the upper end of the load data. I should note they also list HP38 with a starting load of 3.6 and a max. of 4.1. That is strange since it is the same powder.

November 4, 2012, 11:55 AM	#17
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	Does anyone use bullseye or unique in 38 spl loads ?

November 4, 2012, 10:31 PM	#20
TheTinMan Senior Member Join Date: December 8, 2008 Posts: 102	IRRC there is something peculiar about Hodgdon's load data for a 158 gr LSWC. Specifically the COAL being shorter indicating a different bullet shape. Also, look at the pressures listed. I know that the Hornady manual "maximum" for their soft, swaged lead bullets is based on max velocity, not pressure. It's important to read all of the detail available with load data. Primer, COAL, barrel length, etc. all affect the data.