"Take your gun to work" Florida - Page 2

MLeake · December 25, 2010, 10:49 PM

Check the link to the Florida law.

I'm pretty sure it prohibits employers from doing such searches of vehicles, except in those places of employment where security exceptions apply.

But it's always better to verify for yourself, via statutes or a consultation with a lawyer.

Six_Rounds · December 25, 2010, 11:22 PM

Bernie, I'm still not seeing where in the law criminal trespassing can be defined as possessing an item or doing something that the owner of the property doesn't want you to do. If you have been allowed onto the property, you are not trespassing until you remain there after being told to leave.

If as a condition of entry to the property, the owner asks that you follow a certain rule and you break it, then its up to the property owner to find out and ask you to leave. You are not automatically trespassing merely because you broke a condition of entry, or at least I don't see how the law can be construed to mean you are.

Constantine, I believe in reading the statutes it should be very clear that your employer CAN NOT terminate or discipline you for having a firearm in your car on company property. In addition they can not ask you if you do, or search you to find out, it is against Florida law to do so.

With that said, we live in a work at will state meaning your employer can fire you for just about any other reason they choose to name (that isn't prohibited by law), so if they find out you have a gun in your car and don't like it, they can surely just fire you and give you a B.S story about why and you would probably never be able to prove they did anything wrong.

Keep your gun in your car and keep your mouth shut about it and you wont ever have a problem.

(Sorry that I'm getting slightly off topic with this, but I believe its important that we understand exactly what you can and cant do according to the law.)

zombieslayer · December 25, 2010, 11:34 PM

Just don't advertise that you have a weapon in your vehicle, and follow the laws. If they terminate you while doing so, well, sue them.

Bernie Lomax · December 26, 2010, 01:02 AM

Quote:

You are not automatically trespassing merely because you broke a condition of entry

Yes, you are. Here in Arizona, our trespassing statute is pretty similar to what you have in Florida, and if you get caught carrying a gun on private property where you have been given reasonable notice by the owner or lessee that it's forbidden, you will get charged with trespassing. Of course, here, it's only a misdemeanor, whereas in Florida, it's a felony.

If you decide to carry a gun at work in circumstances where you're not protected by the TYGTW law, and you have been given express notice that such is not permitted, I'd be very careful - you stand to lose a lot more than your job.

Tactical Jackalope · December 26, 2010, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Check the link to the Florida law.

I'm pretty sure it prohibits employers from doing such searches of vehicles, except in those places of employment where security exceptions apply.

But it's always better to verify for yourself, via statutes or a consultation with a lawyer.

How do I know if those extra rare conditions apply here?

LOL @ all of you, thanks guys I really really appreciate you all responding, from my last post till now..All of you.

Well, yes I will keep quiet about it. I just wanted to make sure 100% with him but turns out he was full of ish so whatever. Thought he'd turn into an honest man. At least pull me aside I don't know. My mistake I guess....So, for some reason I feel like leaving the G27 in the car and not the G22...I don't know why...Maybe since there is a possibility?

Either way it's stupid. Nothing to do with work, before and after work I want to carry. I have been with a gun on me for years now and I'm not looking to stop something that I earned and is my right to do cause of a job that won't even "let me" keep it in the car.

So my next question....

Why would they say I can't?

Tactical Jackalope · December 26, 2010, 01:31 PM

Quote:

If you decide to carry a gun at work in circumstances where you're not protected by the TYGTW law, and you have been given express notice that such is not permitted, I'd be very careful - you stand to lose a lot more than your job.

Agreed 100% even a 3% possibility that I could be prosecuted for carrying where I'm told not to is too much.

Don P · December 26, 2010, 07:01 PM

Here is a start, http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/index.html

State statutes, http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/ind...048/ch0048.htm

This lawyers book is a must to own,http://www.floridafirearmslaw.com/

Tactical Jackalope · December 28, 2010, 09:08 PM

Appreciate the links a million! Basically answers my questions...So I guess I can't even keep my gun in the car while at work....Sad sad world -___-

MLeake · December 28, 2010, 09:49 PM

... unless your hotel is in the secure area of an airport... or on Federal or other government property.... or on a school.... or someplace that handles/stores munitions and explosives...

... then what are you finding in the statutes that would nullify the "take your gun to work" statute?

AFAIK, you can keep it in your car. What have you found that says otherwise?

zombieslayer · December 28, 2010, 10:09 PM

I just noticed that you're in Miami. That's why he told you that you can't have your gun in your car. My carry permit was lost once and a South Florida UPS office refused to notarize my request for a replacement. I asked why and was told that the opinion of himself and his office was that guns should not be legal and that they wouldn't stamp their notary seal because they are anti-gun and don't want to do anything having anything to do with firearms or firearm ownership. I was blown away, I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Then it dawned on me - the southern 1/4 of Fl is very very liberal. Fwiw- I carry everywhere except places prohibited by federal or state laws. My gun goes to work with me.

Tactical Jackalope · December 30, 2010, 02:00 AM

MLeake, well it's not on any of those..but check out what zombieslayer said. Could it be the same thing? If so it has nothing to do with the law then right? Just their lame personal preference?

Well, cause I don't know much about this place I just began working. What I want to know, is why would they tell me this and why would they go so far as to put it in their books upon employment under #1 of the 17 ways to get fired? Any percentage of me getting into any trouble for carrying in my darn glovebox in my car..Then sadly I'll follow...

They can't just randomly go into my car or anything... -___- hisjnunskjhnkjskhkfkj

MLeake · December 30, 2010, 11:06 AM

... they can't go into your car unless they fall under an exception.

They can put "no guns" into the employee literature all they want. Normally, they will do this because of insurance requirements.

However, as far as your car goes, those regulations are meaningless unless the company falls under the exceptions listed in the statute.

It's up to you to read the statute and figure out if your place of employment is excepted.

The vast majority of employers CAN NOT legally stop you from keeping a weapon in your car, CAN NOT search your vehicle, and would run the risk of punitive law suits if they attempted such.

That doesn't mean their literature won't say otherwise, but I wouldn't worry about it - unless the law says they are in a special category where I do have to worry about it.

Wheeler1 · December 30, 2010, 09:39 PM

DAMN but I love Texas!

psyshack · December 30, 2010, 09:54 PM

WOW,,, what a mess. We take our guns to work in the office. And often have show and tell.

mes227 · December 30, 2010, 11:11 PM

DG45 is correct in what "At will" means. I was for many years the CEO of a company with 500 employees and operations in a number of states. All of our employees were At Will which very clearly meant that at anytime and for any legal reason we could terminate any one. Which would mean that if you carried at work and we didn't like it, we could terminate you "without cause" (not that we would have). That said, we very rarely used this but it was always there and managers knew that they could generally persuade a non cooperative employee with this type of discussion.

By "legal reason" I mean that you cannot be terminated for being in a protected class (age, religion, race, etc) but it would be perfectly legal to terminate someone for having a goofy smile.

mes227 · December 30, 2010, 11:15 PM

As to the issue of searching vehicles in company parking lots or garages, it depends on your employment contract. The general laws - and Constitutional protection - against illegal search / probable cause are to protect us from the government and do NOT apply to private citizens on private property. If you come onto my property you will be subject to whatever rules I say (limited by criminal law). And you'll find that many companies, either in the employment contract or the employee handbook (which is usually adopted as part of the employment terms) there is broad permission given by the employee to the employer to do things such as searching personal property located on or in company property (your car in their lot).

MLeake · December 30, 2010, 11:28 PM

mes227, the whole point of Take Your Gun To Work laws, and one of the major points of contention raised by business organizations and property rights advocates, is that TYGTW laws actually restrict the employer/property owner from searching cars and placing limits on weapons in cars. In some places, TYGTW is written so as only to cover permit holders. But no, where those laws are in effect, the employer/property owner cannot act as you describe, at least not without legal and financial risk.

OP, you need to look up the appropriate Florida law, and figure out how it applies to your own workplace.

Tactical Jackalope · December 31, 2010, 12:07 PM

Alright, so then I'm pretty sure they're just full of it and putting that in the manual because that's what they prefer and just pray people abid by it blindly. That's what I'm getting. I still want to know 100% I can. I'll PM you MLeake with where the job is exactly.

MLeake · December 31, 2010, 12:13 PM

... as a social thing are ok.

For legal questions, though, you'd be better off contacting a Florida-based lawyer.

If you read the statute, you'll see what loopholes business owners / employers may have.

If they aren't listed in the loopholes, then they can't inspect your vehicle, etc, and you can keep your weapon in your car, if you have a FL permit.

But I can't (and won't) make that determination for you. You need to read the statute, and you need to decide if your employer is excepted or not. For both ethical reasons (I don't want to risk misinforming you) and liability reasons (I don't want to be blamed if you follow my advice), I can't give you a definite answer, whether I know your place of employment or not. You really need to read the statute, and/or consult an attorney who practices in your area.

Tactical Jackalope · January 9, 2011, 07:26 PM

Sorry to bump this...But don't know if this matters.

The CIA was at the hotel I work at today, because a government official was there. I hear this happens quite often. Does this in any way matter? I HAVE been leaving it in the car. Just to update you guys on that too. But after today I question that again. Anyone know for sure about there being a federal presence?

dayid · January 12, 2011, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Constantine

The CIA was at the hotel I work at today, because a government official was there. I hear this happens quite often. Does this in any way matter?

Nope, not at all.

790.06(12) touches on this, but only applies to those with a license. That said, 790.25 protects you here, as carrying at work does not require a license at all, and 790.06 does not apply there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Florida State Statute 790.06(12)

No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize any person to carry a concealed weapon or firearm into [...] any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district; any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof; [...]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Florida State Statute 790.25(3)

LAWFUL USES.--The provisions of ss. 790.053 and 790.06 do not apply in the following instances, and, despite such sections, it is lawful for the following persons to own, possess, and lawfully use firearms and other weapons, ammunition, and supplies for lawful purposes:
[...]
(n) A person possessing arms at his or her home or place of business;

Tactical Jackalope · January 13, 2011, 02:42 PM

So I'm good to go...I've been carrying in the car at work regaurdless since I posted this..What are they gonna do? "Randomly" select me for a search? Doubt they even can. IF they find it I'm sure they CAN fire me. But they can't search me anyways to even get to that. And the whole "you will be arrested if it's found" ish...Okay buddy, send the airforce to look through my car from the air and detect it. I hate when people are so full of it.

Power of rules and regulations of a hotel company power - 2

Power of the State Laws - 8

Power of Federal Laws - 10

thank you!

December 25, 2010, 11:22 PM	#27
Six_Rounds Member Join Date: June 12, 2010 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 59	Bernie, I'm still not seeing where in the law criminal trespassing can be defined as possessing an item or doing something that the owner of the property doesn't want you to do. If you have been allowed onto the property, you are not trespassing until you remain there after being told to leave. If as a condition of entry to the property, the owner asks that you follow a certain rule and you break it, then its up to the property owner to find out and ask you to leave. You are not automatically trespassing merely because you broke a condition of entry, or at least I don't see how the law can be construed to mean you are. Constantine, I believe in reading the statutes it should be very clear that your employer CAN NOT terminate or discipline you for having a firearm in your car on company property. In addition they can not ask you if you do, or search you to find out, it is against Florida law to do so. With that said, we live in a work at will state meaning your employer can fire you for just about any other reason they choose to name (that isn't prohibited by law), so if they find out you have a gun in your car and don't like it, they can surely just fire you and give you a B.S story about why and you would probably never be able to prove they did anything wrong. Keep your gun in your car and keep your mouth shut about it and you wont ever have a problem. (Sorry that I'm getting slightly off topic with this, but I believe its important that we understand exactly what you can and cant do according to the law.) Last edited by Six_Rounds; December 25, 2010 at 11:29 PM.

December 25, 2010, 11:34 PM	#28
zombieslayer Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,198	Just don't advertise that you have a weapon in your vehicle, and follow the laws. If they terminate you while doing so, well, sue them. __________________ "An angry prophet, denouncing the hypocrisies of our time"

December 26, 2010, 07:01 PM	#32
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	Here is a start, http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/index.html State statutes, http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/ind...048/ch0048.htm This lawyers book is a must to own,http://www.floridafirearmslaw.com/ __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

December 28, 2010, 09:08 PM	#33
Tactical Jackalope Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 6,429	Thank you! Appreciate the links a million! Basically answers my questions...So I guess I can't even keep my gun in the car while at work....Sad sad world -___-

December 28, 2010, 09:49 PM	#34
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	Constantine... ... unless your hotel is in the secure area of an airport... or on Federal or other government property.... or on a school.... or someplace that handles/stores munitions and explosives... ... then what are you finding in the statutes that would nullify the "take your gun to work" statute? AFAIK, you can keep it in your car. What have you found that says otherwise?

December 25, 2010, 10:49 PM	#26
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	Check the link to the Florida law. I'm pretty sure it prohibits employers from doing such searches of vehicles, except in those places of employment where security exceptions apply. But it's always better to verify for yourself, via statutes or a consultation with a lawyer.

December 28, 2010, 10:09 PM	#35
zombieslayer Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,198	I just noticed that you're in Miami. That's why he told you that you can't have your gun in your car. My carry permit was lost once and a South Florida UPS office refused to notarize my request for a replacement. I asked why and was told that the opinion of himself and his office was that guns should not be legal and that they wouldn't stamp their notary seal because they are anti-gun and don't want to do anything having anything to do with firearms or firearm ownership. I was blown away, I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Then it dawned on me - the southern 1/4 of Fl is very very liberal. Fwiw- I carry everywhere except places prohibited by federal or state laws. My gun goes to work with me. __________________ "An angry prophet, denouncing the hypocrisies of our time"

December 30, 2010, 02:00 AM	#36
Tactical Jackalope Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 6,429	MLeake and zombieslayer... MLeake, well it's not on any of those..but check out what zombieslayer said. Could it be the same thing? If so it has nothing to do with the law then right? Just their lame personal preference? Well, cause I don't know much about this place I just began working. What I want to know, is why would they tell me this and why would they go so far as to put it in their books upon employment under #1 of the 17 ways to get fired? Any percentage of me getting into any trouble for carrying in my darn glovebox in my car..Then sadly I'll follow... They can't just randomly go into my car or anything... -___- hisjnunskjhnkjskhkfkj

December 30, 2010, 11:06 AM	#37
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	Constantine... ... they can't go into your car unless they fall under an exception. They can put "no guns" into the employee literature all they want. Normally, they will do this because of insurance requirements. However, as far as your car goes, those regulations are meaningless unless the company falls under the exceptions listed in the statute. It's up to you to read the statute and figure out if your place of employment is excepted. The vast majority of employers CAN NOT legally stop you from keeping a weapon in your car, CAN NOT search your vehicle, and would run the risk of punitive law suits if they attempted such. That doesn't mean their literature won't say otherwise, but I wouldn't worry about it - unless the law says they are in a special category where I do have to worry about it.

December 30, 2010, 09:39 PM	#38
Wheeler1 Member Join Date: April 14, 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 30	DAMN but I love Texas! __________________ "The whole art of fencing consists in just two things, to hit and not to be hit." M. Jourdain, In Moliere's Le Bourgeois Gentilhomme, 1670

December 30, 2010, 09:54 PM	#39
psyshack Junior member Join Date: May 27, 2010 Posts: 159	WOW,,, what a mess. We take our guns to work in the office. And often have show and tell.

December 30, 2010, 11:11 PM	#40
mes227 Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2010 Location: Incline Village, NV Posts: 535	DG45 is correct in what "At will" means. I was for many years the CEO of a company with 500 employees and operations in a number of states. All of our employees were At Will which very clearly meant that at anytime and for any legal reason we could terminate any one. Which would mean that if you carried at work and we didn't like it, we could terminate you "without cause" (not that we would have). That said, we very rarely used this but it was always there and managers knew that they could generally persuade a non cooperative employee with this type of discussion. By "legal reason" I mean that you cannot be terminated for being in a protected class (age, religion, race, etc) but it would be perfectly legal to terminate someone for having a goofy smile.

December 30, 2010, 11:15 PM	#41
mes227 Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2010 Location: Incline Village, NV Posts: 535	As to the issue of searching vehicles in company parking lots or garages, it depends on your employment contract. The general laws - and Constitutional protection - against illegal search / probable cause are to protect us from the government and do NOT apply to private citizens on private property. If you come onto my property you will be subject to whatever rules I say (limited by criminal law). And you'll find that many companies, either in the employment contract or the employee handbook (which is usually adopted as part of the employment terms) there is broad permission given by the employee to the employer to do things such as searching personal property located on or in company property (your car in their lot).

December 30, 2010, 11:28 PM	#42
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	mes227, the whole point of Take Your Gun To Work laws, and one of the major points of contention raised by business organizations and property rights advocates, is that TYGTW laws actually restrict the employer/property owner from searching cars and placing limits on weapons in cars. In some places, TYGTW is written so as only to cover permit holders. But no, where those laws are in effect, the employer/property owner cannot act as you describe, at least not without legal and financial risk. OP, you need to look up the appropriate Florida law, and figure out how it applies to your own workplace.

December 31, 2010, 12:07 PM	#43
Tactical Jackalope Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 6,429	MLeake and all others Alright, so then I'm pretty sure they're just full of it and putting that in the manual because that's what they prefer and just pray people abid by it blindly. That's what I'm getting. I still want to know 100% I can. I'll PM you MLeake with where the job is exactly.

December 31, 2010, 12:13 PM	#44
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	PMs and all... ... as a social thing are ok. For legal questions, though, you'd be better off contacting a Florida-based lawyer. If you read the statute, you'll see what loopholes business owners / employers may have. If they aren't listed in the loopholes, then they can't inspect your vehicle, etc, and you can keep your weapon in your car, if you have a FL permit. But I can't (and won't) make that determination for you. You need to read the statute, and you need to decide if your employer is excepted or not. For both ethical reasons (I don't want to risk misinforming you) and liability reasons (I don't want to be blamed if you follow my advice), I can't give you a definite answer, whether I know your place of employment or not. You really need to read the statute, and/or consult an attorney who practices in your area.

January 9, 2011, 07:26 PM	#45
Tactical Jackalope Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 6,429	Sorry to bump this...But don't know if this matters. The CIA was at the hotel I work at today, because a government official was there. I hear this happens quite often. Does this in any way matter? I HAVE been leaving it in the car. Just to update you guys on that too. But after today I question that again. Anyone know for sure about there being a federal presence?

January 13, 2011, 02:42 PM	#47
Tactical Jackalope Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 6,429	So I'm good to go...I've been carrying in the car at work regaurdless since I posted this..What are they gonna do? "Randomly" select me for a search? Doubt they even can. IF they find it I'm sure they CAN fire me. But they can't search me anyways to even get to that. And the whole "you will be arrested if it's found" ish...Okay buddy, send the airforce to look through my car from the air and detect it. I hate when people are so full of it. Power of rules and regulations of a hotel company power - 2 Power of the State Laws - 8 Power of Federal Laws - 10 thank you!