Lasermax 1202 on a Rem 870?

kraigster414 · November 23, 2005, 08:32 PM

http://www.lasermax.com/products/remington.php

Anybody using? Like?

DPris · November 23, 2005, 10:24 PM

Finished a project with one on a Vang Comp 870 about three weeks ago.
It has some good points. The LED bulb is long-lived & doesn't break if you sneeze on it, the LED is also great for longer battery life. The pulsating laser is easier to pick up in a hurry than a static laser dot. The unit mounts securely & looks to be pretty rugged.
The LED's downside is that it's not as bright as an inky, but in nightfire testing it put out enough light to identify a target threat out to about 30 yards or so, which was the max practical distance I felt good about with a couple of the tighter buckshot loads, anyway. It'll still light up a silhouette enough to engage a little beyond that, but not well enough to ID or show a gun in a hand.
The laser obviously carries well beyond that distance, but again target ID would have to be positive by other means than the LED to justify engaging with slugs.
I don't like switch wires hanging out to snag on things, but it's short enough on this one & close enough to the boreline to reduce the snag factor. The pressure pad sticks to the fore-end tightly for momentary On/Off, or you can just use the button on the back of the unit for On/Off.
One thing I would like to see different, though, is the capability to use the laser without the light. As it is, you get both or none, and there are forseeable occasions where using the laser without immediately giving away your position by lighting yourself up with the LED at the same time would be beneficial.
I mentioned that to the maker, they went with this setup based on feedback from the Buffalo, NY, SWAT team. If they get enough contrary feedback, they might offer both versions.
Anyway, long answer to a short question. Did it help?
Denis

kraigster414 · November 24, 2005, 07:46 PM

Denis, that was a great review and yes, it helped a lot. I still may pick one up though I agree, I'd like the option of having either the light or the laser go on separately. You have yours mounted on a 2-round extension tube I assume? No problems? Screws don't come lose under recoil? Are you using Loctite? Red? Blue?

The laser holds its point of aim?

Thanks again!!

kraigster414 · November 25, 2005, 06:16 PM

Interesting that Lasermax is now offering a $100 rebate on this model. That normally either means that ain't selling (and they're loaded up to the ceiling with inventory) or a new model is about to come out. I wonder which.

DPris · November 25, 2005, 10:41 PM

Yup, it has to be mounted on a 2-round extension.
No problems, nothing loosened or shifted, laser held. No Lok-Tite, it was a test sample & I originally didn't plan to keep it.
Denis

50Shooter · November 26, 2005, 01:38 AM

You can shoot faster and more accurately using the sights.

You should be able to knock down 5 pepper poppers at 10 yards using buckshot in under 3 seconds using the bead or ghost rings. If you fish around looking for the laser dot it will take you twice as long. The brighter it is outside the harder it is to see. You don't want to spend money buying something that makes you slower.

A light, on the other hand, is a critical thing to have on a shotgun. Target identification is high priority. The laser does not give you that.

My .02

Tim

DPris · November 26, 2005, 02:54 AM

50,
I think you're dismissing the laser too quickly.
In situations where the lighting is starting to go, it can be quicker to acquire than iron sights. Used in conjunction with a good light, it works better than iron sights in darkness.
Using a laser automatically focuses your visual attention on the target. You look more at the target threat than the sights, and you may tend to see more of what the target's doing, such as hand activity, and so on.
It also offers the option of firing from any position (hip, under arm, etc) without the use of sights.
I don't recommend firing from those positions as first choices, but (this from a police viewpoint) if you're walking at a low "assault" position with the shotgun either at the hip or under the arm (much more comfortable than a low shoulder-ready position for extended periods), the laser can acquire a sudden threat quicker than bringing the gun up to the shoulder for a sighted shot. I find in myself, and did with others when I was an instructor, that firing from either of those two positions typically results in the pattern going high. Using the laser dials the pattern right in from any unconventional position if you have to use one suddenly. No guesswork.
I disagree with you in your broad statement about shooting more accurately without the laser. In darkness it's not easy to achieve a perfect sight picture even with a light, you have to line up three sighting points (both sights + target) and your eye. Using a laser in conjunction with a light, you put the laser on target and if it holds still (we're talking static accuracy) it's easily repeatable without lining up any kind of a sighting plane with your eye.
The laser is an adjunct, it's not there to be the main sighting system. And, of course, you're right on its limited usefulness in daylight. If you've got decent light, and you're in a high ready position, you most likely will acquire a target quicker with irons.
If you feel you do better without one, that's OK, but I think lasers have their place.
Denis

DPris · November 26, 2005, 02:56 AM

Sorry, doubletap.
Denis

kraigster414 · November 26, 2005, 02:11 PM

An effective combat shotgunner needs to be proficient in a variety of self defense techniques including firing from the shoulder, hip, etc.. A laser significantly assists with respect to the latter in terms of improved accuracy and sight acquisition in low light - admittedly more of a issue with slugs vs. buckshot/birdshot. One of the best illustrations of this, although a laser was not used, is shown in Lanny Macgill's DVD, "Mastering the Combat Shotgun." While I find most of these self-help gun videos less than terrific, this one is particularly good.

Long story made short, a laser does serve a useful purpose for the combat shotgunner.

November 23, 2005, 08:32 PM	#1
kraigster414 Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 2005 Location: USA Posts: 114	Lasermax 1202 on a Rem 870? http://www.lasermax.com/products/remington.php Anybody using? Like?

November 26, 2005, 01:38 AM	#6
50Shooter Junior Member Join Date: December 3, 2004 Posts: 2	The laser is the wrong answer to the right question. You can shoot faster and more accurately using the sights. You should be able to knock down 5 pepper poppers at 10 yards using buckshot in under 3 seconds using the bead or ghost rings. If you fish around looking for the laser dot it will take you twice as long. The brighter it is outside the harder it is to see. You don't want to spend money buying something that makes you slower. A light, on the other hand, is a critical thing to have on a shotgun. Target identification is high priority. The laser does not give you that. My .02 Tim

November 26, 2005, 02:56 AM	#8
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	Sorry, doubletap. Denis Last edited by DPris; November 26, 2005 at 12:24 PM.

November 23, 2005, 10:24 PM	#2
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	Finished a project with one on a Vang Comp 870 about three weeks ago. It has some good points. The LED bulb is long-lived & doesn't break if you sneeze on it, the LED is also great for longer battery life. The pulsating laser is easier to pick up in a hurry than a static laser dot. The unit mounts securely & looks to be pretty rugged. The LED's downside is that it's not as bright as an inky, but in nightfire testing it put out enough light to identify a target threat out to about 30 yards or so, which was the max practical distance I felt good about with a couple of the tighter buckshot loads, anyway. It'll still light up a silhouette enough to engage a little beyond that, but not well enough to ID or show a gun in a hand. The laser obviously carries well beyond that distance, but again target ID would have to be positive by other means than the LED to justify engaging with slugs. I don't like switch wires hanging out to snag on things, but it's short enough on this one & close enough to the boreline to reduce the snag factor. The pressure pad sticks to the fore-end tightly for momentary On/Off, or you can just use the button on the back of the unit for On/Off. One thing I would like to see different, though, is the capability to use the laser without the light. As it is, you get both or none, and there are forseeable occasions where using the laser without immediately giving away your position by lighting yourself up with the LED at the same time would be beneficial. I mentioned that to the maker, they went with this setup based on feedback from the Buffalo, NY, SWAT team. If they get enough contrary feedback, they might offer both versions. Anyway, long answer to a short question. Did it help? Denis

November 24, 2005, 07:46 PM	#3
kraigster414 Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 2005 Location: USA Posts: 114	Denis, that was a great review and yes, it helped a lot. I still may pick one up though I agree, I'd like the option of having either the light or the laser go on separately. You have yours mounted on a 2-round extension tube I assume? No problems? Screws don't come lose under recoil? Are you using Loctite? Red? Blue? The laser holds its point of aim? Thanks again!!

November 25, 2005, 06:16 PM	#4
kraigster414 Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 2005 Location: USA Posts: 114	Interesting that Lasermax is now offering a $100 rebate on this model. That normally either means that ain't selling (and they're loaded up to the ceiling with inventory) or a new model is about to come out. I wonder which.

November 25, 2005, 10:41 PM	#5
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	Yup, it has to be mounted on a 2-round extension. No problems, nothing loosened or shifted, laser held. No Lok-Tite, it was a test sample & I originally didn't plan to keep it. Denis

November 26, 2005, 02:54 AM	#7
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	50, I think you're dismissing the laser too quickly. In situations where the lighting is starting to go, it can be quicker to acquire than iron sights. Used in conjunction with a good light, it works better than iron sights in darkness. Using a laser automatically focuses your visual attention on the target. You look more at the target threat than the sights, and you may tend to see more of what the target's doing, such as hand activity, and so on. It also offers the option of firing from any position (hip, under arm, etc) without the use of sights. I don't recommend firing from those positions as first choices, but (this from a police viewpoint) if you're walking at a low "assault" position with the shotgun either at the hip or under the arm (much more comfortable than a low shoulder-ready position for extended periods), the laser can acquire a sudden threat quicker than bringing the gun up to the shoulder for a sighted shot. I find in myself, and did with others when I was an instructor, that firing from either of those two positions typically results in the pattern going high. Using the laser dials the pattern right in from any unconventional position if you have to use one suddenly. No guesswork. I disagree with you in your broad statement about shooting more accurately without the laser. In darkness it's not easy to achieve a perfect sight picture even with a light, you have to line up three sighting points (both sights + target) and your eye. Using a laser in conjunction with a light, you put the laser on target and if it holds still (we're talking static accuracy) it's easily repeatable without lining up any kind of a sighting plane with your eye. The laser is an adjunct, it's not there to be the main sighting system. And, of course, you're right on its limited usefulness in daylight. If you've got decent light, and you're in a high ready position, you most likely will acquire a target quicker with irons. If you feel you do better without one, that's OK, but I think lasers have their place. Denis

November 26, 2005, 02:11 PM	#9
kraigster414 Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 2005 Location: USA Posts: 114	An effective combat shotgunner needs to be proficient in a variety of self defense techniques including firing from the shoulder, hip, etc.. A laser significantly assists with respect to the latter in terms of improved accuracy and sight acquisition in low light - admittedly more of a issue with slugs vs. buckshot/birdshot. One of the best illustrations of this, although a laser was not used, is shown in Lanny Macgill's DVD, "Mastering the Combat Shotgun." While I find most of these self-help gun videos less than terrific, this one is particularly good. Long story made short, a laser does serve a useful purpose for the combat shotgunner.