40S&W w/ Alliant Power Pistol

[nwgunman]

Okay, I finally burned up the last of my Win Action Pistol. I thought I'd give Alliant's relatively new "Power Pistol" powder a try. I dug out a couple of the manuals and discover that Alliant recommends a max charge of 8.2 grains (150gr bullet) and that Speer (#13) says a max charge of 9.0 grains (155 gr bullet). Even figuring in that Alliant is using a 5 grain lighter bullet than Speer, that's about a full 1.0 grain difference in max loads. Being a somewhat cautious fellow, I'm thinking about starting out at 7.8 grains under a 155gr Rem jhp, keeping the OAL @ 1.125". Speer is seating theirs at 1.120, and Allaint doesn't say. Anybody have any experience with Power Pistol in the .40S&W? What charges are you guys using with which bullet? Thanks and stay safe.

[Deathwish]

Careful with that power pistol buddy. I've used close to 3lbs for 9mms and let me tell you, that stuff is touchy!(GREAT balistics though...) Sorry, I haven't any exp. with the .40......
DW

[AF Shooter]

DW,
Please explain what you mean my "touchy". I'm currently making my .40 IPSC loads with Hodgon HS-6, but have been planning to switch to Power-Pistol because of all the great things I've heard about it. With the .40 being such a high pressure round, I get a little nervous when folks say a powder is touchy. Should I steer clear of the Power-Pistol and stick to my HS-6 loads?

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Tom Whitman
SSgt, USAF

[nwgunman]

Deathwish: Not to worry. I am a sensitive and caring 90's kind of guy...(1790's!!). I have already noticed that this Power Pistol stuff is rather "light and fluffy" compared to my old favorite, Win Action Pistol. I really had to crank open the powder measure on my Dillon to get the charge weight correct. This means that it uses up a heck of a lot more case volume. Am gonna touch off my first experimental batch this week. Hopefully will experience no k-Bs!!

[nwgunman]

AF Shooter: I tried the HS-6 also, but the velocities were pretty low. I'm giving the Alliant stuff a try for the same reasons as you. We'll see, eh? "Touchy" is a bit of a red flag when you're talking .40S&W.

[AF Shooter]

nwgunman,
Ditto what you said about "touchy" being a red flag. Fluffy powders meter very will thru my current powder mesure, so Power-Pistol should do fine in it. Case volume may be another matter though. I shoot 180gr TC lead for IPSC and they don't leave alot of room for powder. The bullet may crush the powder down a bit. OTOH, some bullseye shooters I've spoken to say having the bullet push the powder down a bit is the ticket for consistant groups because the powder has no chance to move around under an air gap. Please keep us posted on your results with the Power-Pistol.

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Tom Whitman
SSgt, USAF

[G35]

I am posting this as a reference. I am not suggesting that you use my load data.

I have chrono'ed 250 rounds of the following load. 11.2 gr of Alliant PP behind a 135-gr Sierra JHP. Yes, I said Eleven-point-two grains. This gives an average of 1530 fps. Only virgin new brass was used.

I have chrono'ed 60 rounds of the following load. 12.0 gr of APP behind a 135-gr Sierra JHP. Yes, I said twelve-point-zero grains. This gives an average of 1635 fps (800 ft. lbs. energy). Only virgin new brass was used.

All loads were fired from my Glock 35 with stock Glock barrel. I do use a 24-lb Wolff recoil spring. The 12.0 gr loads do produce mild Smilely Faces in the brass.

Again, I post this as a reference. Please DO NOT load according to MY data. These are extremely dangerous handloads.

[Deathwish]

Hmmm. I've never loaded anything with HS-6(though I have a friend who likes it in his .357 wheel gun). I started experimenting with the PP with 147gr and 124gr self-defense loads. I used once fired brass and I found that being as little as .1 grain off(when loading "DO NOT EXCEED"s) caused blown primers and split cases in my gun.(Beretta92) Things really started getting interesting when loading the 147s(VERY compressed). PP is an odd powder and is fun to ecperiment with. If you decide to play with it, try it at night, the muzzel flash is impressive.
DW

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"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."
-Rudyard Kipling

[Bill Hebert]

I loaded about 3 lbs of HS-6 and I've had good results in my 357 and 38 special loads. Since I shoot with my 10 year old son, a mild load with fair accuracy is all I'm looking for. When I've tried other powders, I've noticed substantial and I mean substantial increase in felt recoil and muzzel flash. I don't have a crony, so there's no way for me to know what velocity differences we're talking about, but I suspect they are alot. I haven't tried to "work up" the loads, so I suspect as you get closer to max, the differences between powders would decrease. Keep us posted as to what you experience including how the brass performs after those max loads. Bill

[Tree Rat]

NWgunman and others - Still trying to figure out why Power Pistol is so desireable with it`s huge charge weights and moderate velocity (but for G35`s nuke loads). I use Universal Clays with Rainier 155 FP`s. Clean burning, meters great through Dillon 550B.
Try it...You`ll like it!

6.6 grs Universal Clays
FED 1X Brass
FED 100 Primer
Rainier 155 FP
1.126 OAL
Averages 1205 with H&K USP

Tree Rat

[petej88]

If you want maximum velocities in .40 and 357 SIG, Power Pistol is about the best. It consistently cranks out high velocity rounds.

In the 357 SIG arena, PP is about the only powder that hits max velocity within standard pressure limits. Vihtavouri, Winchester, and Hodgdon don't have anything that can keep up with PP in 357 SIG.

[nwgunman]

Interesting results at the range today. My first batch was with 7.8 grs of PP in new Starline brass with Rem 155 gr JHP and CCI primers at an OAL of 1.125". Wow, fairly stout load. More recoil than factory Win 155 gr Silvertips loads, which are pretty peppy. I was using a Glock 23 with an aftermarket barrel from Jarvis. I fired about 25 rounds with no problems but I gotta say that something seems hinky here. Yeah, I checked the primers (for what that's worth!) and they showed signs of being pounded into the firing pin hole in the breech face a little more so that the Win Silvertips, or any of my other handloads I was also comparing. As I mentioned, the Speer manual calls for 8.0 gr as a starting point and topping off at a whopping 9.0 gr. with the bullet seated DEEPER! There is NO way at this point I would consider that heavy of a charge. My old chrono malf'd a while back so until my new one gets here, velocity is unknown. Anyway, even tho I did also fire 5 rounds of the 8.0 gr loadings without a problem, I'm backing off to lighter charges for sure. Might just check out Tree Rats suggestion next. I was wondering about the metering thing. Stay safe.

[This message has been edited by nwgunman (edited April 22, 2000).]

[Patrick Graham]

I just switched to Power Pistol. I did it because of it's huge charge weights. I intentionally went looking for a powder that would make double charges easy to notice during the reloading process.

[Cheapo]

PP appears to deliver as promised in almost every instance. I watched a H&K Model 4 destroy its frame while the owner was testing some just-under-max loads in .380. Velocities were terrific (@1,000 fps in 90-gr bullets, IIRC), accuracy was great and the Win primers showed a bit less "pressure signs" than factory Win Silvertips.

It was just too much energy and slide velocity for a gun that was designed as a .32 ACP.

In .357 Mag, I've found it to run a bit slow in one revolver, but very close to advertised speeds in another. Heck, one guy's 4-inch shot the same loads within 25 fps of what that "slow" revolver did with a 6-inch tube! Gun problem, not powder problem.

In .40 S&W, PP has proven to be a fine powder for me.

[The specialist]

I use ALliant Bullseye for my .40's. My HK loves the loads.

[CassandraComplex]

I am leaning toward Alliant Power Pistol ("PP) for my .40 and 10mm loads. It sounds as if it is the perfect powder for 9mm, .40 and 10mm. Alliant even specifically lists these calibers as the best ones for PP, (with .45 also being a good one listed).

I have heard a lot of good about this powder for these calibers, so:
What are some drawbacks of Power Pistol?

Flash? Blast?

Someone said somewhere. I think, that PP is a "loud" powder? Is it possible for a powder to be "louder" than another? Or is it more likely that that person was mistaken and just heard someone using hot loads and deducted that the "powder is loud"?


Looking at all the loading data, it appears that PP gives the best velocities for the most moderate pressure. It seems that PP gets at least 100-150 more fps for the same amount of pressure, compared to other powders, when looking at .40 and 10mm.

I am not looking for massive velocities, but just for a safe load for practice. I plan to load under max. I am shooting a Glock with a Jarvis barrel.

Thanks for your time!

[nwgunman]

CassandraComplex: You don't show an e-mail address so here's a reply via this post: I didn't even bother to chron ALL those painstakingly assembled loads with Alliant Power Pistol powder. I took a mess with me to a training session and during a low light exercise, the HORRENDOUS muzzle flash completely turned me off to this powder. I was already a little hinky about this stuff and suspect the pressures being generated in my handloads may be excessive. The "felt recoil" of even loads BELOW the shown data (from Alliant) was more than factory ammo in same bullet weights. Anyway, I'm still looking for a new powder, with low flash and a moderate burning rate that meters well in my 550B. AA#5 is next. Stay safe.

ps: I'm also shooting Glocks...m23s w/ aftermarket barrels (Jarvis and KKM).

[This message has been edited by nwgunman (edited July 14, 2000).]

[Peter M. Eick]

Heck, I like PP for the same reasons as Patrick. It takes big loads, very very hard to double charge, and it gives my meters pretty well out of my Uniflow.

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P229 Sport and 357 SIG, H&K P7PSP and 9MM, Dual Perfection!!

[Clark]

Different load books have different loads. That is why I buy them all and I am now collecting the old ones [old load books were hot].

DESTRUCTIVE LOAD PRESSURE DATA!!!

THESE LOADS EXCEED SAAMI SPECS. THEY ARE INTENDED TO RESULT IN
CATASTROPHIC FAILURE OF THE FIREARM AND/OR THE RELOADED COMPONENTS AS
A MEANS TOWARD COMPILING LOAD PRESSURE DATA. [/B]

I worked up a load of 8 gr Power Pistol behind 115 gr JHP 9mm this weekend. I also worked up 7.8 gr 3N37 with the same bullet. The Power Pistol load is faster. This is my first Power Pistol load, and I can see more to come.

[This message has been edited by Clark (edited August 22, 2000).]

[VAHunter]

I have used PP in .45acp loads with 185gr jhps. I had the same reaction some have mentioned when firing in my Kimber: lots of flash, seemingly louder report, and a bit more felt recoil than any commercial loads. It felt about like some Rem 185gr +p Golden Sabre loads I have fired. Seems odd as all press and manufacturer text points towards higher velocities with lower chamber pressures than other powders. Didn't seem to batter the gun much more, but definitely roars with a little more authority. The flash is more than I prefer, so the remainder of the pound I bought will sit on the shelf.

[WESHOOT2]

40S&W----(made much using PP, but 'flashy' for defense loads, try V3N37)

180g Rainier TMJ-FP, R-P or Federal once-fired (not from Glocks) case, CCI500, 6.0g Power Pistol, OAL 1.130+.005/-.005".

This averages 920fps from Glock 22/23's, giving superb accuracy from the over one hundred guns tested in.

E-mail me direct for stupid loads.

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"All my ammo is factory ammo"

[nwgunman]

I've switched to AA #5. The first test batch shot great from my .40 cal Browning HighPower. Much less muzzle flash and less "felt recoil". Cases look good after firing. I'm still loading the Rem 155gr JHP. I'll chrono the load as soon as my knee recovers a little and I can once again hobble down range. I'll post the velocities out of the Browning and I'll take the Glock 23 too just for some comparison