Building a home defense 870- questions

zimm · February 7, 2012, 08:14 AM

I have an older 870 express that I've added a speedfeed stock (non-shell holder version) and remington 21" barrel with rifle sights and screw in choke.

I want to use this 870 as my backup home defense (also have a glock), take to the indoor pistol range to shoot, and also have as my Armageddon go-to survival gun to take with the family if a natural disaster hit or something like that.

I want to be able to nicely pattern 00 buck at 10 yards and shoot slugs to 100 yards if need be.

Plan 1 is to by a Wilson +2 mag extension, and get a quality shell carrier for the receiver, put on a sling, and call it a day.

What's a good side shell carrier? What's a good sling for over the shoulder carry?

Next step would be to send the gun off to vang comp for ghost sights and shortening and comping the barrel- that'll cost me almost $1000 and seems silly for a $200 shotgun.

Ideas?

Single Six · February 7, 2012, 08:42 AM

I can be of partial help, anyhow...a good side saddle ammo holder is made by Tac Star. My Marine Magnum 870 came with one already installed; works great.

oneounceload · February 7, 2012, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Next step would be to send the gun off to vang comp for ghost sights and shortening and comping the barrel- that'll cost me almost $1000 and seems silly for a $200 shotgun.

Seems silly to me as well - are you REALLY going to get $1000 worth of improvement?

L_Killkenny · February 7, 2012, 09:58 AM

Another vote for silly. You have a gun with no more capabilities than 870 with a slug barrel. See used ones at the gun shows and LGS for $200.

Another win/win for the marketing folk.

LK

Catalyst · February 7, 2012, 10:02 AM

I don't know if I'd like ghost ring sights on a shotgun but I do know I'd never spend One Thousand Dollars tweaking an 870. Don't let me discourage you though, it's your money and alot of the fun for some people owning a gun like the 870 where there's parts-a-million for is customizing it for their own enjoyment/pride.

Sling and an ammo saddle are good accessories that nobody could fault you for.

droptrd · February 7, 2012, 10:38 AM

Another vote for the shell carrier and sling. I have a basic black nylon sling. Nothing fancy. Does it's job. My shell carrier is an elastic one. I think Allen is the brand. It works. The mag extenition sound cool but I'm not sure it's worth th cost. I would recommend a rail to mount a light. Or one of those forends with the light built in. A light is a great option for HD as most cowardly bad guys strike in the dark.

zippy13 · February 7, 2012, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by droptrd

...A light is a great option for HD as most cowardly bad guys strike in the dark.

Or, they target the light.

Are you suggesting a gun light or whole house night lights?

jmr40 · February 7, 2012, 11:29 AM

Buy a case of ammo, shoot it, buy more, shoot it, then decide. I probably wouldn't do anything else.

Nanuk · February 7, 2012, 11:32 AM

My HD 870 is an old wingmaster I picked up for a song at a pawn shop. I cut the buttstock off 1" re-contoured the recoil pad to fit, refinished the stock, refinished the gun with alumahyde II, added a side saddle, a +3 extension on an 18" bbl. No sights at present, that's my next project.

oneounceload · February 7, 2012, 01:38 PM

If you want a sling for STHF evacuations, that is one thing to aid in carrying, but I would leave it off the gun under normal circumstances. The last thing you need is for it to get caught on a bed post or door knob in a crisis

BlackFeather · February 7, 2012, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneounceload

If you want a sling for STHF evacuations, that is one thing to aid in carrying, but I would leave it off the gun under normal circumstances. The last thing you need is for it to get caught on a bed post or door knob in a crisis

I completely agree with this, and while I like single point slings I find putting one on in a rush, in the dark no less, can be a pain.

I personally love ghost ring sights, but without a light source you may as well be using a bead. I find a pressure control light is best. I painted my sights a bit but I find glowing paints make the target a bit blurry.

Tactics are always helpful, learning not to rely on all the additions of the gun helps as well. Unless you need to leave and secure another room, leaving yours isn't a good idea. In most cases. I've heard these horror stories of sights and beads popping off, that one second pause it may take to notice could be bad.

Anything else, well, if it were me I'd toss a bayonet lug and an Ontario Knife company bayonet on there. But that's me...

LSnSC · February 7, 2012, 09:20 PM

IMO, the less crap on a shotgun the better. The gun you have is more than capable. I set up an 870 for 3 Gun competition. Is a plain 870 express synthetic with a 21" turkey barrel on it and a mag tube extension. Thats it. I more than held my own against the guys with the tacticool shotguns at the last match. It points where I look and I'm familiar with the controls. All I need to do is get faster with my reloads. No misses and no second shots on the poppers or plates.

Chuck M · February 7, 2012, 09:25 PM

Raven concealment makes a pretty cool detachable elastic shot shell panel. I'd say choke it especially using around others you don't intend to harm. But I agree that less is better. Simple will reduce a target. I do say add the choke b/c the spread pattern for 00 buck out of some guns is asking for unwanted results in a home defense environment.

redstategunnut · February 7, 2012, 11:31 PM

Skip all the expensive modifications and sights, with shotguns simple is King.

But if you insist upon fancy:

Lee Lapin · February 8, 2012, 01:13 PM

Next step would be to send the gun off to vang comp for ghost sights and shortening and comping the barrel- that'll cost me almost $1000 and seems silly for a $200 shotgun.

It IS silly, flat out (and I'm not usually that blunt). Don't do it. Spend the money on ammo, not bling.

If you want ghost ring sights, by all means get 'em. But you ALREADY HAVE rifle sights on the slug barrel, and the rear sight at least will have to come off to use GRs - why not just use the sights already on the gun? You aren't going to be shooting it at 500 yards after all. Open sights will do what you need done with slugs, IF you can hit with the shotgun with slugs that is. If you can't hold it on target, no kind of sights on earth will fix a lack of ability to shoot.

And you already have a barrel fitted with RemChokes. I really doubt Uncle Hans Vang can do much to improve over what the right choke tube (CYL or ImpCyl to start with, and Federal buckshot with FliteControl) and load will deliver. And it'll shoot slugs just fine too - try Brenneke KOs to start with.

Remington builds perfectly fine defensive shotguns out of the box, they really don't need much tweaking save stock fit. And beyond proper gun fit to the shooter, pretty much everything else is personal preference. Concentrate more on learning to run the gun and worry less about some preconceived list of things that need to be done to/added to the gun before it is "suitable" for use. You cannot buy skill in a box and bolt it onto a shotgun. Train and practice!

Just use a good solid 1.25" wide, two-point nylon sling on QD swivels for a carry strap/sling, and KISS on that one too. No need to spend $30 on a fancy sling with more buckles and straps than a dominatrix's outfit.

I've never had a problem with a plain $26 TacStar Sidesaddle. Just use blue LocTite on all the screws and put a thin coat of RIG or other grease on the receiver under the sideplate.

Spend the money on a good shotgun class, if it's burning a hole in your pocket. That's a FAR better use of it. Think of the shotgun itself as you would a hammer - a simple tool that can be easily replaced or duplicated (and should be duplicated - two is one and one is none). Concentrate more on building your skillset and worry less about the hardware.

Stay safe!

redstategunnut · February 8, 2012, 03:23 PM

^

What he said, except I prefer the single point slings because I find the two point slings interfere with me working the action, but if it works for you, drive on.

Fargazer · February 9, 2012, 10:25 AM

I'll third, fourth, fifth, whatever iteration we are on now, about how you shouldn't send it in for the $1000 customization.

A couple thoughts (assuming this is a 12 gauge):

I'd strongly consider a weapon light. Surefire makes one, but given this is also your survival gun I'd go with a tactical flashlight mount, such as the Elzetta. That way you can use your light independently as well as on the shotgun, and you are going to want a flashlight in your survival gear anyway.
Consider replacing the Express MIM extractor with a steel extractor from the Police model; cheap, tougher, and fairly easy to install.
Depending upon what is already on the Speedfeed, consider a high recoil-absorbing recoil pad on it, like a Supercell. All depends how good the existing Speedfeed pad is, and the recoil sensitivity of who will shoot it (don't just think of yourself - think of wife, kids, and survival teammates too).

AIP Tactical has lots of good information on what works well on a shotgun for various roles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Lapin

Train and practice!

The absolute top "accessory" you must employ.

TheKlawMan · February 9, 2012, 11:27 AM

Zippy raises a very good issue about adding a light to a home defense weapon:

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by droptrd
...A light is a great option for HD as most cowardly bad guys strike in the dark.

Or, they target the light.
Are you suggesting a gun light or whole house night lights?

He wrote about the question long ago when I got an HD gun and I believe he suggested some house lights that would illuminate the intruder but not give away your position, assuming that you had a defense plan that essentially called for you to miantain in a defensive position while awaiting the police. (Mine is on a landing at the top of stairs leading to all bed rooms.)

Also consider that some homes are sufficiently illuminated to enable the homeowner to see about without additional lighting.

Then again I suppose one could have a light to use only if they find themselves in a situation where additional lighting is needed. Just don't activate it accidentally.

Anyhow, I see that no one else commented on Zippy/s point.

On the sling, I suppose you could have a quick attach one if the need should arise to boogy, but others more learned than me point out it is just someting to snag on things in the confines of your home.

redstategunnut · February 9, 2012, 12:37 PM

I don't think you should count on ambient light or house lights being available at the moment it matters. A weapon mounted light on the home defense long gun is, in my view, the single most important option one should add. Positive target identification is required. I have two teenagers in my house, I can't go shooting at shadows or bumps in the night.

TheKlawMan · February 9, 2012, 01:16 PM

Quote:

I don't think you should count on ambient light or house lights being available at the moment it matters. A weapon mounted light on the home defense long gun is, in my view, the single most important option one should add. Positive target identification is required. I have two teenagers in my house, I can't go shooting at shadows or bumps in the night.

Which is why I added thatyou might want a weapon's light for some situations but to be careful not to activate it accidentally. No one is talking about shooting at shadows or bumps in the night. I am not even shooting a postively identified BG unless I deem it necessary to do so before LEO arrives.

redstategunnut · February 9, 2012, 02:16 PM

KlawMan:

I'm with you. My comment was directed at the cacophony of posters who always denounce weapon-mounted lights as "target indicators."

oneounceload · February 9, 2012, 02:50 PM

I feel non need for a light to upset what semblance of balance there might be - but that is because it is only my wife and myself, no kids, dogs or other and there is plenty of ambient light coming through the windows from the neighbors' curbside street lights....That said, IF i were to add one and only one thing extra to a standard stock 870 or 500, a light comes in as a tie for first with a side saddle.

Night sights?? what for - if you can easily ID the target, then there is enough light to fire, if you can't see the target, night sights aren't going to help anyway - your focus should be on your target, not your sights - this isn't long-range gunning. Most shots INSIDE a house will max out at 30 feet or less - 10 yards. Mag extensions sounds nice, until you try to move the gun - then that extra weight can become a hindrance and not a help - especially if you have not trained and practiced with that. A lot of folks seem to think they will need a bazillion rounds to ward off an intruder - stats show in most cases NO shots were ever fired, and in the majority of those where a gun was fired, one was the magic number.

In an emergency scenario - no matter the type, KISS is your friend

jibberjabber · February 9, 2012, 03:37 PM

"Put the gun away Rex ... no one's trying to take your bone ... thaaat's a good boy".

WV_gunner · February 10, 2012, 08:53 AM

I don't agree with using lasers or lights. For home defense, you don't need fancy sights either. Although I do like the idea of the gun holding more rounds, its not really needed. And for those that think they need an expensive synthetic stock, you need to reevaluate your ideas. I have an over and under with no hammer and a single trigger. It also has a full wood stock and a bead for a sight. I'm Pretty good with it too. I can even shoot it one handed with 3 inch shells. I keep 000 and I'm sure it'll stop them on the first shot, if I miss, a second shot is just a pull of a trigger.

oneounceload · February 10, 2012, 11:24 AM

OP - if you have that much extra cash and are worried about home defense, perhaps some of that $1000 would be better spent on your home itself - lighting, alarms, or whatever would work best in your home location. Otherwise, take the 1000 and buy some ammo and a lesson or three and become proficient with the stock gun.........practice, practice, practice

February 7, 2012, 08:14 AM	#1
zimm Member Join Date: December 1, 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 33	Building a home defense 870- questions I have an older 870 express that I've added a speedfeed stock (non-shell holder version) and remington 21" barrel with rifle sights and screw in choke. I want to use this 870 as my backup home defense (also have a glock), take to the indoor pistol range to shoot, and also have as my Armageddon go-to survival gun to take with the family if a natural disaster hit or something like that. I want to be able to nicely pattern 00 buck at 10 yards and shoot slugs to 100 yards if need be. Plan 1 is to by a Wilson +2 mag extension, and get a quality shell carrier for the receiver, put on a sling, and call it a day. What's a good side shell carrier? What's a good sling for over the shoulder carry? Next step would be to send the gun off to vang comp for ghost sights and shortening and comping the barrel- that'll cost me almost $1000 and seems silly for a $200 shotgun. Ideas?

February 7, 2012, 08:42 AM	#2
Single Six Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2010 Location: N.C. Posts: 1,522	I can be of partial help, anyhow...a good side saddle ammo holder is made by Tac Star. My Marine Magnum 870 came with one already installed; works great. __________________ Seen on a bumper sticker: "Exercise. Eat right. Take vitamins. Die anyway."

February 7, 2012, 11:32 AM	#9
Nanuk Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2005 Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam. Posts: 3,082	My HD 870 is an old wingmaster I picked up for a song at a pawn shop. I cut the buttstock off 1" re-contoured the recoil pad to fit, refinished the stock, refinished the gun with alumahyde II, added a side saddle, a +3 extension on an 18" bbl. No sights at present, that's my next project. __________________ Retired Law Enforcement U. S. Army Veteran Armorer My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.

February 7, 2012, 11:31 PM	#14
redstategunnut Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 2009 Location: see name Posts: 405	Skip all the expensive modifications and sights, with shotguns simple is King. But if you insist upon fancy: Last edited by redstategunnut; February 7, 2012 at 11:40 PM.

February 8, 2012, 01:13 PM	#15
Lee Lapin Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2004 Location: SE NC Posts: 1,239	Next step would be to send the gun off to vang comp for ghost sights and shortening and comping the barrel- that'll cost me almost $1000 and seems silly for a $200 shotgun. It IS silly, flat out (and I'm not usually that blunt). Don't do it. Spend the money on ammo, not bling. If you want ghost ring sights, by all means get 'em. But you ALREADY HAVE rifle sights on the slug barrel, and the rear sight at least will have to come off to use GRs - why not just use the sights already on the gun? You aren't going to be shooting it at 500 yards after all. Open sights will do what you need done with slugs, IF you can hit with the shotgun with slugs that is. If you can't hold it on target, no kind of sights on earth will fix a lack of ability to shoot. And you already have a barrel fitted with RemChokes. I really doubt Uncle Hans Vang can do much to improve over what the right choke tube (CYL or ImpCyl to start with, and Federal buckshot with FliteControl) and load will deliver. And it'll shoot slugs just fine too - try Brenneke KOs to start with. Remington builds perfectly fine defensive shotguns out of the box, they really don't need much tweaking save stock fit. And beyond proper gun fit to the shooter, pretty much everything else is personal preference. Concentrate more on learning to run the gun and worry less about some preconceived list of things that need to be done to/added to the gun before it is "suitable" for use. You cannot buy skill in a box and bolt it onto a shotgun. Train and practice! Just use a good solid 1.25" wide, two-point nylon sling on QD swivels for a carry strap/sling, and KISS on that one too. No need to spend $30 on a fancy sling with more buckles and straps than a dominatrix's outfit. I've never had a problem with a plain $26 TacStar Sidesaddle. Just use blue LocTite on all the screws and put a thin coat of RIG or other grease on the receiver under the sideplate. Spend the money on a good shotgun class, if it's burning a hole in your pocket. That's a FAR better use of it. Think of the shotgun itself as you would a hammer - a simple tool that can be easily replaced or duplicated (and should be duplicated - two is one and one is none). Concentrate more on building your skillset and worry less about the hardware. Stay safe! __________________ Mindset - Skillset - Toolset. In that order! Attitude and skill will get you through times of no gear, better than gear will get you through times of no attitude and no skill.

February 7, 2012, 09:58 AM	#4
L_Killkenny Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2007 Location: Iowa Posts: 2,676	Another vote for silly. You have a gun with no more capabilities than 870 with a slug barrel. See used ones at the gun shows and LGS for $200. Another win/win for the marketing folk. LK

February 7, 2012, 10:02 AM	#5
Catalyst Member Join Date: October 16, 2009 Posts: 64	I don't know if I'd like ghost ring sights on a shotgun but I do know I'd never spend One Thousand Dollars tweaking an 870. Don't let me discourage you though, it's your money and alot of the fun for some people owning a gun like the 870 where there's parts-a-million for is customizing it for their own enjoyment/pride. Sling and an ammo saddle are good accessories that nobody could fault you for.

February 7, 2012, 10:38 AM	#6
droptrd Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 342	Another vote for the shell carrier and sling. I have a basic black nylon sling. Nothing fancy. Does it's job. My shell carrier is an elastic one. I think Allen is the brand. It works. The mag extenition sound cool but I'm not sure it's worth th cost. I would recommend a rail to mount a light. Or one of those forends with the light built in. A light is a great option for HD as most cowardly bad guys strike in the dark.

February 7, 2012, 11:29 AM	#8
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,805	Buy a case of ammo, shoot it, buy more, shoot it, then decide. I probably wouldn't do anything else.

February 7, 2012, 01:38 PM	#10
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	If you want a sling for STHF evacuations, that is one thing to aid in carrying, but I would leave it off the gun under normal circumstances. The last thing you need is for it to get caught on a bed post or door knob in a crisis

February 7, 2012, 09:20 PM	#12
LSnSC Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2010 Posts: 514	IMO, the less crap on a shotgun the better. The gun you have is more than capable. I set up an 870 for 3 Gun competition. Is a plain 870 express synthetic with a 21" turkey barrel on it and a mag tube extension. Thats it. I more than held my own against the guys with the tacticool shotguns at the last match. It points where I look and I'm familiar with the controls. All I need to do is get faster with my reloads. No misses and no second shots on the poppers or plates.

February 7, 2012, 09:25 PM	#13
Chuck M Member Join Date: February 6, 2012 Location: Florida Posts: 34	Raven concealment makes a pretty cool detachable elastic shot shell panel. I'd say choke it especially using around others you don't intend to harm. But I agree that less is better. Simple will reduce a target. I do say add the choke b/c the spread pattern for 00 buck out of some guns is asking for unwanted results in a home defense environment.

February 8, 2012, 03:23 PM	#16
redstategunnut Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 2009 Location: see name Posts: 405	^ What he said, except I prefer the single point slings because I find the two point slings interfere with me working the action, but if it works for you, drive on.

February 9, 2012, 12:37 PM	#19
redstategunnut Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 2009 Location: see name Posts: 405	I don't think you should count on ambient light or house lights being available at the moment it matters. A weapon mounted light on the home defense long gun is, in my view, the single most important option one should add. Positive target identification is required. I have two teenagers in my house, I can't go shooting at shadows or bumps in the night.

February 9, 2012, 02:16 PM	#21
redstategunnut Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 2009 Location: see name Posts: 405	KlawMan: I'm with you. My comment was directed at the cacophony of posters who always denounce weapon-mounted lights as "target indicators."

February 9, 2012, 02:50 PM	#22
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	I feel non need for a light to upset what semblance of balance there might be - but that is because it is only my wife and myself, no kids, dogs or other and there is plenty of ambient light coming through the windows from the neighbors' curbside street lights....That said, IF i were to add one and only one thing extra to a standard stock 870 or 500, a light comes in as a tie for first with a side saddle. Night sights?? what for - if you can easily ID the target, then there is enough light to fire, if you can't see the target, night sights aren't going to help anyway - your focus should be on your target, not your sights - this isn't long-range gunning. Most shots INSIDE a house will max out at 30 feet or less - 10 yards. Mag extensions sounds nice, until you try to move the gun - then that extra weight can become a hindrance and not a help - especially if you have not trained and practiced with that. A lot of folks seem to think they will need a bazillion rounds to ward off an intruder - stats show in most cases NO shots were ever fired, and in the majority of those where a gun was fired, one was the magic number. In an emergency scenario - no matter the type, KISS is your friend

February 9, 2012, 03:37 PM	#23
jibberjabber Senior Member Join Date: March 9, 2011 Posts: 178	"Put the gun away Rex ... no one's trying to take your bone ... thaaat's a good boy".

February 10, 2012, 08:53 AM	#24
WV_gunner Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2011 Location: WV Posts: 938	I don't agree with using lasers or lights. For home defense, you don't need fancy sights either. Although I do like the idea of the gun holding more rounds, its not really needed. And for those that think they need an expensive synthetic stock, you need to reevaluate your ideas. I have an over and under with no hammer and a single trigger. It also has a full wood stock and a bead for a sight. I'm Pretty good with it too. I can even shoot it one handed with 3 inch shells. I keep 000 and I'm sure it'll stop them on the first shot, if I miss, a second shot is just a pull of a trigger.

February 10, 2012, 11:24 AM	#25
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	OP - if you have that much extra cash and are worried about home defense, perhaps some of that $1000 would be better spent on your home itself - lighting, alarms, or whatever would work best in your home location. Otherwise, take the 1000 and buy some ammo and a lesson or three and become proficient with the stock gun.........practice, practice, practice