The ACTUAL Impact of Health Care Reform on Gun Owners - Page 2

musher · March 27, 2010, 07:10 PM

That'll really help the bottom line in my little business. I was just thinking I needed another bunch of paperwork to do for the feds on my own dime.

I'm wondering how that works out for the casual collector/swapper though. Buy a gun, play with it a while, sell it off to buy another.

Oops--1099 comes in the mail. Do you have paperwork documenting your basis in the gun. Can you subtract the cost of the gun, or do you have to pay taxes on what you sell it for?

Seems like the whole thing can't be good for the licensed dealers. From a consumer's standpoint, it seems a lot easier just to sell on the private market.

**JohnKSa** · March 27, 2010, 07:24 PM

Correct, it's when a vendor buys from you. If he buys more than $600 from you in a year then he's got to keep records.

What that really means is that he's got to keep records on everyone he buys ANYTHING from so that he will know if he bought more than $600 from any single person in the course of a year.

Kleinzeit · March 27, 2010, 07:47 PM

Ah, I see. Thanks.

**Tom Servo** · March 27, 2010, 08:30 PM

Quote:

What that really means is that he's got to keep records on everyone he buys ANYTHING from so that he will know if he bought more than $600 from any single person in the course of a year.

Yep, this is ugly, but I don't think it'll survive.

We're not the only business that buys from individuals for resale. Expect jewelry stores, pawn shops, car dealers and music stores to raise Cain about it as well.

We've got 21 months before it goes into effect.

hogdogs · March 27, 2010, 08:42 PM

Well if this is accurate, here is a possible beginning of positive news...
Seems GOA is right in there trying to protect the privacy of gun owners regarding insurance and health care legislation.
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...e-legislation/
Brent

10-96 · March 28, 2010, 03:34 AM

I'm way behind on much of this, but can someone educate me on the state's suits (12 last I heard) as they pertain to gun owners and the HCR?
If the states contend that the Gov't cannot force a person to purchase a product or service (insurance) from private individuals, which is still under interstate commerce, then couldn't there be an out option to protect gun owners from further paperwork or intrusion if firearm transactions are conducted within his/her state?

roy reali · March 28, 2010, 07:19 AM

I don't want to speculate, but I am hearing that value added taxes might be a source of funding for this new medical program. If that happens, it would impact shooting by making it more expensive.

RDak · March 28, 2010, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Sure. Sorry about that.

Starts on Page 5, Line 11. Runs through Page 7 I think.

http://democrats.senate.gov/reform/m...-amendment.pdf

Thanks for the info.

Plus, as I'm sure you all know, you will be able to deduct the cost basis of the firearm from the income reported on the Form 1099 Misc. Only the profit would be taxable. (Just a reminder.)

I assume it will be a long term capital gain if held for over one year, just like any other asset, but this is an assumption on my part.

ursavus.elemensis · March 29, 2010, 06:14 PM

It's not all bad news...
You can deduct the cost of mileage to and from the gun shop !!!
You can deduct the transfer fees if you sell it to someone.
You can deduct the cost of the safe you keep it in before selling it.

For most of us, selling a gun, and filing a schedule C means we can deduct business losses from our real income. This is actually, potentially, quite good...

hogdogs · March 29, 2010, 08:17 PM

ursavus.elemensis, Actually if you claim "business expenses" involved with your gun sales to shops, I think you need to be an FFL holder

...
Brent

mhuegerich · March 29, 2010, 09:01 PM

RDak,

I was thinking the same thing when I read your post. You should be able to deduct the cost basis of the firearm from the 1099 amount.

Does that mean you'd need an original receipt, or would an appraisal do?

RDak · March 30, 2010, 03:30 AM

If you purchased it, you'd need an invoice. If you have lost the invoice, the best you could do is try and get an advertisement, catalog, etc., showing how much it cost the year you got it.

If inherited, get the fair market value at the time of inheritance. Use a catalog, advertisement, etc, for the firearm at the time you inherited it.

ETA: An appraisal is great but might be an unnecessary cost to incur except for the most expensive types of firearms IMHO. An FFL could probably help you with this cost basis determination IMHO.

RDak · March 30, 2010, 03:32 AM

Quote:

It's not all bad news...
You can deduct the cost of mileage to and from the gun shop !!!
You can deduct the transfer fees if you sell it to someone.
You can deduct the cost of the safe you keep it in before selling it.

For most of us, selling a gun, and filing a schedule C means we can deduct business losses from our real income. This is actually, potentially, quite good...

You wouldn't want to do that because that is for sole proprietorships and it would indicate you have a business of selling firearms. Plus, you'd have to pay the 15+ percent self employment tax on any net profits.

Just use the Schedule D to report these transactions. There is a space for deducting the cost basis.

I would imagine alot of these sales will not result in a profit. Being a personal asset, all you could do is reduce the gain to zero because the loss from the sale of personal assets is not an allowable loss for tax purposes.

March 27, 2010, 07:24 PM	#27
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,972	Correct, it's when a vendor buys from you. If he buys more than $600 from you in a year then he's got to keep records. What that really means is that he's got to keep records on everyone he buys ANYTHING from so that he will know if he bought more than $600 from any single person in the course of a year. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

March 28, 2010, 03:34 AM	#31
10-96 Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2005 Location: Tx Panhandle Territory Posts: 4,159	I'm way behind on much of this, but can someone educate me on the state's suits (12 last I heard) as they pertain to gun owners and the HCR? If the states contend that the Gov't cannot force a person to purchase a product or service (insurance) from private individuals, which is still under interstate commerce, then couldn't there be an out option to protect gun owners from further paperwork or intrusion if firearm transactions are conducted within his/her state? __________________ Rednecks... Keeping the woods critter-free since March 2, 1836. (TX Independence Day) I suspect a thing or two... because I've seen a thing or two.

March 28, 2010, 07:19 AM	#32
roy reali Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2005 Posts: 3,248	Taxes? I don't want to speculate, but I am hearing that value added taxes might be a source of funding for this new medical program. If that happens, it would impact shooting by making it more expensive.

March 29, 2010, 06:14 PM	#34
ursavus.elemensis Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2007 Location: southcentral/southeastern PA Posts: 375	It's not all bad news... You can deduct the cost of mileage to and from the gun shop !!! You can deduct the transfer fees if you sell it to someone. You can deduct the cost of the safe you keep it in before selling it. For most of us, selling a gun, and filing a schedule C means we can deduct business losses from our real income. This is actually, potentially, quite good... __________________ "A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people." -The Declaration of Independence

March 30, 2010, 03:30 AM	#37
RDak Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2004 Location: Michigan Posts: 734	If you purchased it, you'd need an invoice. If you have lost the invoice, the best you could do is try and get an advertisement, catalog, etc., showing how much it cost the year you got it. If inherited, get the fair market value at the time of inheritance. Use a catalog, advertisement, etc, for the firearm at the time you inherited it. ETA: An appraisal is great but might be an unnecessary cost to incur except for the most expensive types of firearms IMHO. An FFL could probably help you with this cost basis determination IMHO. Last edited by RDak; March 30, 2010 at 03:51 AM.

March 27, 2010, 07:10 PM	#26
musher Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2005 Posts: 462	That'll really help the bottom line in my little business. I was just thinking I needed another bunch of paperwork to do for the feds on my own dime. I'm wondering how that works out for the casual collector/swapper though. Buy a gun, play with it a while, sell it off to buy another. Oops--1099 comes in the mail. Do you have paperwork documenting your basis in the gun. Can you subtract the cost of the gun, or do you have to pay taxes on what you sell it for? Seems like the whole thing can't be good for the licensed dealers. From a consumer's standpoint, it seems a lot easier just to sell on the private market.

March 27, 2010, 07:47 PM	#28
Kleinzeit Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2009 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 566	Ah, I see. Thanks.

March 27, 2010, 08:42 PM	#30
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Well if this is accurate, here is a possible beginning of positive news... Seems GOA is right in there trying to protect the privacy of gun owners regarding insurance and health care legislation. http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...e-legislation/ Brent

March 29, 2010, 08:17 PM	#35
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	ursavus.elemensis, Actually if you claim "business expenses" involved with your gun sales to shops, I think you need to be an FFL holder ... Brent

March 29, 2010, 09:01 PM	#36
mhuegerich Member Join Date: June 28, 2007 Location: St. Louis MO Posts: 62	RDak, I was thinking the same thing when I read your post. You should be able to deduct the cost basis of the firearm from the 1099 amount. Does that mean you'd need an original receipt, or would an appraisal do?