.38 loads in a .357 case...

garndawg · July 9, 2009, 03:20 PM

Along the same lines as the earlier thread for high loads in the short case, here's my curiosity.

First disclaimer: I am NOT a handloader extraordinare... I have a Lee Classic handloader kit for the .30-06 (the kind that uses a hammer) and am planning to get a .357 shortly...

Second disclaimer: I am not interested in bulk reloading, as I go to the range about once a month and shoot about 200 rnds. My .30-06 will be strickly for hunting (with a very modest zombie stash) and it'd be nice to roll my own reduced recoil and ballistic tips.

Anyhow, here's what I'm wondering... (two questions, actually)

You can obviously put a .38+P load into a .357 casing. Is there a good reason for this? Target shooting? Helping with the "jump the gap" in the cylinder? Any reason for this, whatsoever?

I don't have any .38's (anymore), as everything is a .357. One of these days, I'll add a 1894, too. Wondering if there's a good reason to keep empty .38 casings for my own use...

Second question: Is there a common powder I could use for both .357 and .30-06? Is there a compelling reason to have two different powders? I would imagine a pound of powder would last me several years, and simplify storage, etc, but if you've got a good reason to get two kinds, I'd like to hear it.

Thanks guys!

**Unclenick** · July 9, 2009, 05:16 PM

Welcome to the forum.

The reason to use .357 cases is to avoid lead and other fouling build up in your chambers in the space between where a .38 Special case ends and a .357 case ends. Such build-up from using .38 Special cases has been know to jam .357 case mouths creating a high pressure situation, so chambers need thorough de-crudding after using .38 Specials. If all your revolvers are .357, take your .38 Special brass and see if you can trade it for .357 brass from someone?

The rifle uses much slower powder than the pistol. A powder suitable for magnum loads in the .357 will make for light loads in the '06 at best. You can't put enough into the big case to get to full normal velocity without the peak pressure exceeding safe limits. It also won't fill the '06 case well, which leads to ignition inconsistency and reduced accuracy. If you have a bolt rifle, the '06, for hunting loads, performs well with H4350 for bullet weights from 165 grains and up. You may want something a little faster, like Varget, for 150 to 180 grain bullets. Varget is a good match load powder, though it won't get you to quite the velocities with the heavier bullets that the slower H4350 can.

For the .357 you can use Bullseye for light target loads and H110 or 296 (both the same OEM powder from the same plant, but with different brand names) for your magnum loads.

My dad has shot 8 grain loads of Bullseye in the .30-06 to propel one of the 100 grain semi-jacketed Speer plinker bullets. That worked out fine. Bullseye doesn't seem to mind a lot of empty space around it. It would be a good load for rabbits or other small game you don't want to emulsify with a full power expanding '06 load.

AlaskaMike · July 9, 2009, 05:32 PM

Quote:

If all your revolvers are .357, take your .38 Special brass and see if you can trade it for .357 brass from someone?

Good advice there.

I download .357 all the time to make midrange loads, or even very light loads similar to commercial .38s, but always using .357 brass. I can shoot my .357 much more with such loads than if I only loaded full-house magnum loads. Be careful using small charges of fast powders like Bullseye though--it's very easy to double charge a case and not notice it. Touch off one of those loads and you may be picking up the pieces of your revolver off the ground.

I second the powder suggestions from Unclenick. H4350 with Nosler 180 grain partitions is my #1 hunting load.

Good luck,
Mike

garndawg · July 10, 2009, 05:39 AM

Thanks for the input, guys...

Basically, I need to plan for two powders for the two calibers.

As for the .357, my primary CCW is a M&P 340, so I'll go with light to medium target loads for it, and with a couple of cylinders of my SD on each range trip, just to be familiar. (BTW, Ga Arms 125gr HP's in .38+P) I've even bounced around using wax/primer loads, just for trigger control practice. You'd recommend the H110 for the long case target loads, considering the gun I'm shooting and it's weight/reputation for being a mule? It's bulkly enough to notice an obvious doublecharge? (Note: my wife's home gun is a M65, so I'm good there!)

For the .30-06, I've got a 18.5" carbine barreled Remington 760, so there's not much need for too long a burn, or too much powder. It's a great gun out to about 300 yards, but I'll never be hitting yotes out at 500 with it. It likes 150 grs (corelocks and noslers), but the 125gr reduced recoil from Remington does pretty well too. I can go up to 165gr without too much discomfort, but once you're in the 180gr+ range, recoil is substantial with such a light/short gun... Still like the Varget for this?

AlaskaMike · July 10, 2009, 09:30 AM

The shorter carbine barrel actually doesn't make much difference where the powder's concerned. With the 150s and 165s Varget should still do very well for you, as will H4350.

In .357 Mag, when using lighter bullets like 125 grains, I don't really like H110/W296 as much--instead I prefer 2400. I prefer H110/W296 with 158 grain bullets and heavier. With 125 grain XTPs and W296 my model 28 showed darn close to the same velocity as with 2400, but with substantially more muzzle blast and flash.

When you mention target loads for your .357, are you wanting full power loads, with the goal of trying to duplicate your carry ammo, or are you wanting a midrange load with reduced recoil? H110/W296 and 2400 are best for the full power loads. While 2400 could be downloaded a bit to give you a midrange load, H110/W296 require full charges to prevent squibs. For midrange loads I'd recommend a faster burning powder somewhere near Unique on the burn rate chart (I like Power Pistol).

Mike

garndawg · July 10, 2009, 09:40 AM

Thanks for the input, guys (and Mike especially)

Mike, I'll most like shoot the midrange ones the most. Trigger time/control practice. Although making up some simulated loads for the HP's is a good idea.

Basically, I don't ever see myself at the range or CCW with a full-up .357 load in this little light thing...

July 9, 2009, 05:16 PM	#2
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Welcome to the forum. The reason to use .357 cases is to avoid lead and other fouling build up in your chambers in the space between where a .38 Special case ends and a .357 case ends. Such build-up from using .38 Special cases has been know to jam .357 case mouths creating a high pressure situation, so chambers need thorough de-crudding after using .38 Specials. If all your revolvers are .357, take your .38 Special brass and see if you can trade it for .357 brass from someone? The rifle uses much slower powder than the pistol. A powder suitable for magnum loads in the .357 will make for light loads in the '06 at best. You can't put enough into the big case to get to full normal velocity without the peak pressure exceeding safe limits. It also won't fill the '06 case well, which leads to ignition inconsistency and reduced accuracy. If you have a bolt rifle, the '06, for hunting loads, performs well with H4350 for bullet weights from 165 grains and up. You may want something a little faster, like Varget, for 150 to 180 grain bullets. Varget is a good match load powder, though it won't get you to quite the velocities with the heavier bullets that the slower H4350 can. For the .357 you can use Bullseye for light target loads and H110 or 296 (both the same OEM powder from the same plant, but with different brand names) for your magnum loads. My dad has shot 8 grain loads of Bullseye in the .30-06 to propel one of the 100 grain semi-jacketed Speer plinker bullets. That worked out fine. Bullseye doesn't seem to mind a lot of empty space around it. It would be a good load for rabbits or other small game you don't want to emulsify with a full power expanding '06 load. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle Last edited by Unclenick; July 9, 2009 at 05:39 PM.

July 9, 2009, 03:20 PM	#1
garndawg Junior Member Join Date: June 17, 2009 Posts: 7	.38 loads in a .357 case... Along the same lines as the earlier thread for high loads in the short case, here's my curiosity. First disclaimer: I am NOT a handloader extraordinare... I have a Lee Classic handloader kit for the .30-06 (the kind that uses a hammer) and am planning to get a .357 shortly... Second disclaimer: I am not interested in bulk reloading, as I go to the range about once a month and shoot about 200 rnds. My .30-06 will be strickly for hunting (with a very modest zombie stash) and it'd be nice to roll my own reduced recoil and ballistic tips. Anyhow, here's what I'm wondering... (two questions, actually) You can obviously put a .38+P load into a .357 casing. Is there a good reason for this? Target shooting? Helping with the "jump the gap" in the cylinder? Any reason for this, whatsoever? I don't have any .38's (anymore), as everything is a .357. One of these days, I'll add a 1894, too. Wondering if there's a good reason to keep empty .38 casings for my own use... Second question: Is there a common powder I could use for both .357 and .30-06? Is there a compelling reason to have two different powders? I would imagine a pound of powder would last me several years, and simplify storage, etc, but if you've got a good reason to get two kinds, I'd like to hear it. Thanks guys!

July 10, 2009, 05:39 AM	#4
garndawg Junior Member Join Date: June 17, 2009 Posts: 7	Thanks for the input, guys... Basically, I need to plan for two powders for the two calibers. As for the .357, my primary CCW is a M&P 340, so I'll go with light to medium target loads for it, and with a couple of cylinders of my SD on each range trip, just to be familiar. (BTW, Ga Arms 125gr HP's in .38+P) I've even bounced around using wax/primer loads, just for trigger control practice. You'd recommend the H110 for the long case target loads, considering the gun I'm shooting and it's weight/reputation for being a mule? It's bulkly enough to notice an obvious doublecharge? (Note: my wife's home gun is a M65, so I'm good there!) For the .30-06, I've got a 18.5" carbine barreled Remington 760, so there's not much need for too long a burn, or too much powder. It's a great gun out to about 300 yards, but I'll never be hitting yotes out at 500 with it. It likes 150 grs (corelocks and noslers), but the 125gr reduced recoil from Remington does pretty well too. I can go up to 165gr without too much discomfort, but once you're in the 180gr+ range, recoil is substantial with such a light/short gun... Still like the Varget for this?

July 10, 2009, 09:30 AM	#5
AlaskaMike Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Posts: 941	The shorter carbine barrel actually doesn't make much difference where the powder's concerned. With the 150s and 165s Varget should still do very well for you, as will H4350. In .357 Mag, when using lighter bullets like 125 grains, I don't really like H110/W296 as much--instead I prefer 2400. I prefer H110/W296 with 158 grain bullets and heavier. With 125 grain XTPs and W296 my model 28 showed darn close to the same velocity as with 2400, but with substantially more muzzle blast and flash. When you mention target loads for your .357, are you wanting full power loads, with the goal of trying to duplicate your carry ammo, or are you wanting a midrange load with reduced recoil? H110/W296 and 2400 are best for the full power loads. While 2400 could be downloaded a bit to give you a midrange load, H110/W296 require full charges to prevent squibs. For midrange loads I'd recommend a faster burning powder somewhere near Unique on the burn rate chart (I like Power Pistol). Mike

July 10, 2009, 09:40 AM	#6
garndawg Junior Member Join Date: June 17, 2009 Posts: 7	Thanks for the input, guys (and Mike especially) Mike, I'll most like shoot the midrange ones the most. Trigger time/control practice. Although making up some simulated loads for the HP's is a good idea. Basically, I don't ever see myself at the range or CCW with a full-up .357 load in this little light thing...