.243 and copper

[Bezoar]

How do the copper bullets work at SHORT range? will they completely penetrate the deer?

[Brian Pfleuger]

If you're talking about bullets like the Barnes TTSX or Hornady GMX, yes, they penetrate like crazy. Long distance, short distance, doesn't matter. They expand and penetrate as long as you're at a reasonable impact speed, somewhere around 1,800 or higher.

The Barnes in particular literally has no practical upper limit. I contacted them asking about shooting them at very high speeds and was told they they test them "well over 4,000fps".

The worst thing that might happen is that if you hit very heavy bone at very high speed the bullet may shed a petal or two but the main body and remaining petals will continue on.

My uncle shot an average sized NY 8-pt buck from perhaps 40 yards with an 80gr TTSX from a .243, MV around 3.450 fps. The bullet hit the right rear hip, shattered the hip and continued on through the liver and diaphragm and left lung, stopping near the left front shoulder.

[jmr40]

I'll 2nd most of Brians comments except to say I'd want a little more speed to get reliable expansion. The Barnes bullets will penetrate regardless, but if impact speed is too slow you won't get expansion and the bullet may pencil through. From what I'm reading closer to 2000 fps, and some who have used them extensively recommend 2200 fps at impact for good expansion.

You need to drop down at least 1 or even 2 bullet weights to get the speed needed. You will still get plenty of penetration because they retain 100% of their original weight, or darn near it, no matter how fast they impact.

I'm shooting 130 gr TTSX bullets in my 308 @ 3050 fps this year as a deer/black bear load. That would normally be considered too light, but conventional bullets lose 25-50% of their weight at impact. That means a normal 180 gr bullet would only weigh about 100-130 gr after impacting game. I expect my 130's to outpenetrate conventional 180 gr bullets.

The downside to the copper bullets is that the lighter bullets lose speed fast and are not as effective at long ranges. If I were planning on shooting past 300-400 yards a conventional lead bullet would probably be a better choice. They still open and expand at slower impact speeds plus the weight and better BC keeps energy up at long ranges.

[Bezoar]

Is it even possible to judge the accuracy potention of these bullets, tsx ttsx gmx simply buy buying a box of loaded ammunition when the manufacturers tell you to set the bullet back specific distances from your individual rifles lands?

[tahunua001]

unless you are a hand loader that regularly measures his lands and adjusts his seating depth accordingly, you will not notice and real change in accuracy. 243 is a barrel burner but mine is fairly shot out and abused and it still holds 1.5 MOA with factory powershok ammo.

[AllenJ]

I have a friend that loves the Federal 270WSM using 130 grain TSX's. I was at the range with him a couple of weeks ago and his rifle grouped 3 rounds less than 1/2" at 100 yards, and he says that is typical for him. He was so upset that Federal stopped using TSX bullets he has purchased everything he needs to reload his own. So to answer your question, they were accurate enough in his!

[Brian Pfleuger]

He was so upset that Federal stopped using TSX bullets he has purchased everything he needs to reload his own.

He should have been upset at the price of the ammo!

The savings loading your own with the TTSX is far more than any conventional bullet. You generally end up at about 0.90-$1.00 a round. Factory ammo with the same bullet, if it exists, is usually no less than $35 for 20 and often $45 or more. It's not unusual for the cheapest factory ammo to be about $1 a round so you can load the TTSX for the price of the cheapest factory stuff. Going to a more conventional bullet might save you 50 cents a round over the same bullet in factory ammo, with the TTSX you're saving sometimes $1.50 each.

[AllenJ]

He should have been upset at the price of the ammo!

I could not agree more. I have been reloading Barnes bullets for years and have a spreadsheet that details out the cost to the penny. I showed him how much difference in price there is between what he was being charged and how much it would cost to reload. I even offered him to use my equipment to reload with but he just did not show interest. Once Federal quit offering the Barnes though he quickly ran down and purchased the last 3 boxes on the shelf, then started buying reloading equipment

[myfriendis410]

I've seen two Barnes TSX's come apart in animals. One was a bull elk shot with a .340 Weatherby Mag at 19 yards. The shank was lodged under the skin at the off shoulder. The other was a 100 gr TSX shot out of a .257 Weatherby Mag into a hog at 300 yards. It stripped the petals off as well and was found in the meat of the ribs when butchering it.

I've shot the 130 gr. .308 caliber TTSX out of a .300 win mag and it was simply repugnant what it did to a deer at 325 yards, with a complete pass through quartering. Killed a few hogs and coyotes with the 80 gr. .243 TTSX and the coyotes were blown up like ground squirrels. It was cool.

[fatwhiteboy]

I use Barnes TSX 140gr bullets in my M70 in .270 for pigs with good results. They expanded perfectly, giving me good clean kills.