FAL history

Steve Smith · November 21, 2000, 03:00 PM

Harley or Rich, could you tell me about my FAL's history? What info do you need for your research? I'll check for your response on this tonight, and then give you the info you need.

Harley Nolden · November 21, 2000, 06:59 PM

Can't say what I don't know. Need info.

HJN

hksigwalther · November 21, 2000, 07:17 PM

Try :
http://fnfal.com/falfiles/faq.html

Daniel Watters · November 22, 2000, 12:22 AM

Don't forget the wonderful FAL reference book from Collector Grade Publications.

fal308 · November 22, 2000, 10:32 AM

Probably can't give you the exact history as the FAL was used by something like 93 coutries as their official battle rifle. It and the HK G3 armed most of the free world for something like 30 years. It can still be found in some locales.
The FAL series of rifles falls basically into three groupings. The original military rifles (FN mfg'd and licensee), there were many, many variants as FN would do most anything reasonable to obtain a contract. Some variants would include full-auto or semi-auto, wood or synthetic furniture, barrel weights and lengths, metric, inch or Israeli style etc. Original FN and Browning (USA importer) FALs usually start at around $4k and all USA-legal FALs are grandfathered in as the BATF considers these as Title II firearms.
The second grouping would be newly manufactured FALs. This grouping would include DSA (www.dsarms.com), Entreprise (www.entreprise.com) and Hesse (www.hessearms.com). DSA has a sterling reputation in the FAL community while the others don't. DSAs start at around $1300 and the others start at a lower price (don't know offhand).
The third grouping is the kit rifles. These are rifles or carbines built on Imbel, Hesse, or Entreprise receivers. Fully built rifles start at around $600. This class generally includes the Century Arms rifles, gunsmith-built rifles and do-it-yourself parts kits. The best receiver by far is the Imbel. It is a Brazillian receiver made on FN-licensed machinery. The parts kits that you see advertised are all ex-military rifles that have been broken-down into parts, less receiver, for importation.
The only way to tell any sort of history of your FAL is if you have a scarce Browning import (G series or GL series FAL). Most likely yours is a kit as that is the majority of FALs out there. One clue is if it's an Israeli style then it was used in...Israel

. Watch out for the Ishapore FALs. They were reverse engineered when India was too cheap to purchase an FN license. These parts don't really fit on any other FALs.
Well, that is about as concise as I can get it. If you have any questions, fire away or go over to falfiles(url posted above).

Steve Smith · November 22, 2000, 02:37 PM

Ok, so I didn't get back to the 'puter last night sorry!

Harley, I didn't mean that I wanted you to research my rifle w/o info about it...sorry about the mis-understanding. Basically, I need you to tell me what to tell you so you can tell me about it. Got it?

I'll try that again...I don't know what items "identify" my rifle (actually butstock group and everything from the receiver forward)...the receiver is Entreprise. So, what markings do you need?

BTW, I've tried this over at FNFAL files...no one even gave it a try...those guys are mre interested in furniture than where their rifle's been.

Steve Smith · November 22, 2000, 09:24 PM

I'll tell you what I can...I hope it's the right info.

BTW, it's an STG-58 if I haven't already said that.

The buttstock assy has only twp sets of markings. One set, for the safety, is marked S (safe), E (fire), and a D shaped letter (full auto). Also, there's a number just over the E, which is 159244.

For the business end, under the left handguard, on the barrel is this:

Kal 7.62 m/m *H and then an egg shaped thing with a crown on it. Inside the egg, the letters ELG and a star under the letters.

Under the right handguard, a number E13613 has been striken out, and under it the number 82752 has been stamped.

Thanks in advance for the help.

**4V50 Gary** · November 22, 2000, 09:36 PM

How much is one of the Brazilian made Springfield FN-FALs going for NIB? Thanks Barclay,

Gary

fal308 · November 24, 2000, 09:27 AM

Gary,
Don't think I've even seen one for sale in the last year or so but as I recall, the last one I did see was over 2k. Didn't get to Knob Creek this past fall so couldn't check out the latest pricing (pricing is usually a little higher at the Creek but it is available then and there). There is a price difference between the early ones and the later ones. Can't recall offhand what the difference is between them though. If it's anywhere near a deal, you might want to grab it while you can.

Steve,
Yours, I believe, is a kit gun using an Entreprise receiver. Probably an older Entreprise receiver at that. IIRC newer Entreprises don't even have a provision for FA. Did you buy it new or used? If you bought it new recently it should already have the USA-legal parts in it. The easiest way to tell is usually by the cocking knob. Is it an aluminuim knob? That is a USA-legal part. If it has one of the original cocking handles then most likely the other parts are also original surplus parts also. The StG-58 is the Austrian version of the FAL. They are considered the best parts kits around usually. Many people don't like the handguards though , what with the bipod and the excess weight of the metal guards. The StG-58 is a metric assembly so parts should be relatively easy to acquire. Where the buttstock meets the receiver it should also be a straight vertical matchup. That would mean that your lower receiver is also metric. If there is a hump on the bottom part of the vertical then you have an inch lower receiver. Not too much of a problem but remember while receiver groups can be interchanged (metric lower on an inch upper etc) individual parts within the receivers cannot be interchanged (metric pistolgrip on inch receiver etc).
The markings on the barrel are the caliber markings and the proof markings. The ELG etc is a Belgian proof marking, confirming that the barrel is Belgian manufactured. (IIRC all StG-58s were Belgian manufactured). Don't recall offhand but I believe the markings near the selector lever are only assembly numbers.
Let us know if you have any other specific questions.

Steve Smith · November 26, 2000, 07:13 PM

Thanks, guys for the info, but I actually knew all of that already. I'm looking for the history of my particular FAL, not technicalities and legalities of it. In a previous post I listed the scroll marks...if anyone knows how to trace these so I can find it's history, it would be greatly appreciated.

November 21, 2000, 06:59 PM	#2
Harley Nolden Staff In Memoriam Join Date: January 8, 1999 Location: Brunswick,GA USA Posts: 1,884	FAL History Can't say what I don't know. Need info. HJN

November 21, 2000, 07:17 PM	#3
hksigwalther Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 1998 Location: NE OH, USA Posts: 3,198	FAL Try : http://fnfal.com/falfiles/faq.html __________________ - Ron V.

November 22, 2000, 10:32 AM	#5
fal308 Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 12, 1998 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,992	Probably can't give you the exact history as the FAL was used by something like 93 coutries as their official battle rifle. It and the HK G3 armed most of the free world for something like 30 years. It can still be found in some locales. The FAL series of rifles falls basically into three groupings. The original military rifles (FN mfg'd and licensee), there were many, many variants as FN would do most anything reasonable to obtain a contract. Some variants would include full-auto or semi-auto, wood or synthetic furniture, barrel weights and lengths, metric, inch or Israeli style etc. Original FN and Browning (USA importer) FALs usually start at around $4k and all USA-legal FALs are grandfathered in as the BATF considers these as Title II firearms. The second grouping would be newly manufactured FALs. This grouping would include DSA (www.dsarms.com), Entreprise (www.entreprise.com) and Hesse (www.hessearms.com). DSA has a sterling reputation in the FAL community while the others don't. DSAs start at around $1300 and the others start at a lower price (don't know offhand). The third grouping is the kit rifles. These are rifles or carbines built on Imbel, Hesse, or Entreprise receivers. Fully built rifles start at around $600. This class generally includes the Century Arms rifles, gunsmith-built rifles and do-it-yourself parts kits. The best receiver by far is the Imbel. It is a Brazillian receiver made on FN-licensed machinery. The parts kits that you see advertised are all ex-military rifles that have been broken-down into parts, less receiver, for importation. The only way to tell any sort of history of your FAL is if you have a scarce Browning import (G series or GL series FAL). Most likely yours is a kit as that is the majority of FALs out there. One clue is if it's an Israeli style then it was used in...Israel. Watch out for the Ishapore FALs. They were reverse engineered when India was too cheap to purchase an FN license. These parts don't really fit on any other FALs. Well, that is about as concise as I can get it. If you have any questions, fire away or go over to falfiles(url posted above).

November 22, 2000, 09:24 PM	#7
Steve Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 1999 Posts: 4,131	OK, I've got some markings, now. sorry about the wait. I'll tell you what I can...I hope it's the right info. BTW, it's an STG-58 if I haven't already said that. The buttstock assy has only twp sets of markings. One set, for the safety, is marked S (safe), E (fire), and a D shaped letter (full auto). Also, there's a number just over the E, which is 159244. For the business end, under the left handguard, on the barrel is this: Kal 7.62 m/m *H and then an egg shaped thing with a crown on it. Inside the egg, the letters ELG and a star under the letters. Under the right handguard, a number E13613 has been striken out, and under it the number 82752 has been stamped. Thanks in advance for the help.

November 22, 2000, 09:36 PM	#8
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,829	Hey fal308! How much is one of the Brazilian made Springfield FN-FALs going for NIB? Thanks Barclay, Gary

November 21, 2000, 03:00 PM	#1
Steve Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 1999 Posts: 4,131	Harley or Rich, could you tell me about my FAL's history? What info do you need for your research? I'll check for your response on this tonight, and then give you the info you need.

November 22, 2000, 12:22 AM	#4
Daniel Watters Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 1999 Location: USA Posts: 644	Don't forget the wonderful FAL reference book from Collector Grade Publications.

November 22, 2000, 02:37 PM	#6
Steve Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 1999 Posts: 4,131	Ok, so I didn't get back to the 'puter last night sorry! Harley, I didn't mean that I wanted you to research my rifle w/o info about it...sorry about the mis-understanding. Basically, I need you to tell me what to tell you so you can tell me about it. Got it? I'll try that again...I don't know what items "identify" my rifle (actually butstock group and everything from the receiver forward)...the receiver is Entreprise. So, what markings do you need? BTW, I've tried this over at FNFAL files...no one even gave it a try...those guys are mre interested in furniture than where their rifle's been.

November 24, 2000, 09:27 AM	#9
fal308 Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 12, 1998 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,992	Gary, Don't think I've even seen one for sale in the last year or so but as I recall, the last one I did see was over 2k. Didn't get to Knob Creek this past fall so couldn't check out the latest pricing (pricing is usually a little higher at the Creek but it is available then and there). There is a price difference between the early ones and the later ones. Can't recall offhand what the difference is between them though. If it's anywhere near a deal, you might want to grab it while you can. Steve, Yours, I believe, is a kit gun using an Entreprise receiver. Probably an older Entreprise receiver at that. IIRC newer Entreprises don't even have a provision for FA. Did you buy it new or used? If you bought it new recently it should already have the USA-legal parts in it. The easiest way to tell is usually by the cocking knob. Is it an aluminuim knob? That is a USA-legal part. If it has one of the original cocking handles then most likely the other parts are also original surplus parts also. The StG-58 is the Austrian version of the FAL. They are considered the best parts kits around usually. Many people don't like the handguards though , what with the bipod and the excess weight of the metal guards. The StG-58 is a metric assembly so parts should be relatively easy to acquire. Where the buttstock meets the receiver it should also be a straight vertical matchup. That would mean that your lower receiver is also metric. If there is a hump on the bottom part of the vertical then you have an inch lower receiver. Not too much of a problem but remember while receiver groups can be interchanged (metric lower on an inch upper etc) individual parts within the receivers cannot be interchanged (metric pistolgrip on inch receiver etc). The markings on the barrel are the caliber markings and the proof markings. The ELG etc is a Belgian proof marking, confirming that the barrel is Belgian manufactured. (IIRC all StG-58s were Belgian manufactured). Don't recall offhand but I believe the markings near the selector lever are only assembly numbers. Let us know if you have any other specific questions.

November 26, 2000, 07:13 PM	#10
Steve Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 1999 Posts: 4,131	Update Thanks, guys for the info, but I actually knew all of that already. I'm looking for the history of my particular FAL, not technicalities and legalities of it. In a previous post I listed the scroll marks...if anyone knows how to trace these so I can find it's history, it would be greatly appreciated.

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