The local PD likes me tonight

fixboot · February 16, 2007, 04:58 AM

What a night,

I gave a friend a ride home from work around 11pm. Im almost home when the sidestreet im passing erupts with gunfire, 4 or 5 shots im not totally sure. I dont really know what possesed me to turn down the street but I did. I drove about a block down and saw an suv parked halfway in the street. As I drove by a man came flying out of the house with a female right behind him. As he tried to get in the vehicle she grabbed and clawed him to keep him out of it, then he stiff armed her away. At this point I had turned around and was parked 100 or so feet behind them and I made the call to 911. I explained what had happened so far as they continued to yell and fight. Appearently other reports of gunfire in the area had come in so I had to assume it was this guy. I still had my headlights on and I think he made me, he pushed down the female and slowly drove off. Screw this I thought and maybe unwisely, I followed. He drove like a normal person until we crossed the main drive in town then he TOOK OFF! Im calmly relaying my exact location to the OP as we passed side streets. So now my speedo says 50mph and he is pulling away fast! Screw it im already in it right? I kept up with him as best I could and kept feeding info to the OP. She tells me officers are close so I backed off a little and made sure of where he turned. Cul-de-sac! I stopped at the intersection just as the flashing blue and reds came screaming in. OP told the officers on scene where I was and told me to stay put. One came to question me and he confirmed that the man was going to jail! They found the weapon AND had talked to the woman he was beating. The officer made it sound like the guy is gonna go down for a while! He questioned me, thanked me for doing what I had done, gave me a card with his name and a case number on it, warned me about possibly being subpenoed to testify in court and sent me on my way. 30 minutes later he called and asked to meet me with a few more questions. He JUST NOW left my house........wow I really have a buzz from all this! Looking back I probably should have broken off once he started speeding thru a residential area but Im kind of glad I chose to stay with him! I do understand that police have lawers and insurance to help them if bad things happen in a chase but I had tunnel vision on that guys bumper and I just couldnt let go. Maybe this guy was the source of the shots I heard a few days ago in my area. Too bad I have to start my graveyard shift as I would love to stick around for the responses (and lashings?) from you guys. To anyone that reads this all the way thru, thanks for letting me share my awesome experiance! Man it feels good to be a good citizen!

--Damn I have GOT to go take the ccw class next payday, my neighborhood is getting downright SCARY!

mete · February 16, 2007, 05:56 AM

So you drove into harms way !! You're lucky you didn't get killed.What ever possessed you to go toward the shooting ??? You should have stopped immediately when you heard the shots and made your call.

gdvan01 · February 16, 2007, 06:12 AM

fixboot -

FWIW, the asterisks don't always work...

fixboot · February 16, 2007, 08:17 AM

Quote:

So you drove into harms way !! You're lucky you didn't get killed.What ever possessed you to go toward the shooting ??? You should have stopped immediately when you heard the shots and made your call.

Well its simple, this is the second time this week gunshots have sounded less than 2 or 3 blocks from my house. My town RARELY has anything like this happen.......The first time I reported the shots last week there was NOTHING pd could do but hope to get lucky and MAYBE see someone waving a gun around....not likley and not thier fault. This time I SAW what was happening and decided I could do something. And I did. I understand full well what could have happened and thank god everything worked out well. Once he took off I made sure to keep my distance while still watching his every move. I just cannot tolerate that kind of recklessness in MY neighborhood. My daughter and her friends play right next to where this idiot was shooting! Im glad I helped the cops take the assbag off the streets. Call me crazy, hell, maybe I am! Still, by putting my saftey on the line there is no chance this retard will ever hit my family with a stray bullet. Would I do it over again? Not likely, but I am glad I did this time.

Quote:

FWIW, the asterisks don't always work...

Edited.

Al Norris · February 16, 2007, 09:16 AM

You heard gunshots from a nearby street. You turned in to investigate, because of a prior incident. You observed from a discrete distance. You stayed out of the way. You notified the police. You followed the suspected shooter at a discrete distance, keeping the police advised of the situation.

Scumbag was apprehended by the police, following your directions. Police knew who you were because you relayed your description and your vehicles description to them.

What's not to like? Were you in danger? Quite possibly, but you did your civic duty anyway.

Samurai · February 16, 2007, 09:27 AM

Really _____, fixboot...

... and nicely done.

Edit: Ok, not stupid. Just really crazy. Good job, all the same.

mikejonestkd · February 16, 2007, 09:45 AM

I am not sure if I should congratulate you for coming to that aid of a person in need or congratulate you for not getting killed.

Either way.....congratulations!!!!!

fixboot · February 16, 2007, 09:46 AM

Thanks guys.......The officer I talked to on scene was cool as hell. I had mentioned offhand that I had been planning on taking my training classes and getting the ccw. His response I found amusing, he said, "Im 100% with you and I say go for it, but most officers refuse to promote civillian carry" He said something to the effect of untrained people with guns making them nervous. With good reason I guess after reading a thread on the subject around here somewhere. He kind of seemed impressed I even knew what I was talking about with regards to concealed carry. He even reccommended a local instructor who is a friend of his! Cops like this guy almost make me want to volunteer for the PD. God what a night.....never called 911 in my life then twice in one week ending with a car chase! Now that all the action is over I find myself bored. Wish the damn local range was public!

Geohff · February 16, 2007, 10:00 AM

What if? That's a big question to consider. What if something bad happened to him? It did not so he in hind site did the right thing in the cosmic scheam of things. Some other what if's to consider. What if his act kept this bad-guy from coming back and killing this lady? What if this civic minded person got home, woke the next morning and read about that killing, knowing he could have done something?

I say good job! You seemed to have used good judgement from the moment you made the choice to take that turn. Had you been armed I would consider your act less brave, but you were not motivated by gun bravado but by civic duty. Had it got hairy no shame in fleeing then but as long as you had a feeling of control you stuck with it.

Sadly I fear for you the hard part was not the choices you made that night but what you will now have to face. Lost time from work - for court, fear of a "nut" bent on revenge, those who would call you and your choice stupid.

I say we all share the civic duty this guy showed, using common sense and sound judgement we can make a diffrence.

I hope his family, friends and co-workers support him now after what is and not bash him for what if's.

RecoveringGT'er · February 16, 2007, 10:13 AM

I'll add my congrats. If more people actually took the effort that you did, we'd have safer streets. Good work.

wolverine350 · February 16, 2007, 11:31 AM

i think you done what everyone should a done, was get another hothead off the street with no desire but to shoot a place up, cool and keen thinking on your part, nothing stupid about it, no need to take a lashing from anyone for doin it, you did what you thought you should do and were thanked for doin so

smooks75 · February 16, 2007, 11:33 AM

Good job!!

stephen426 · February 16, 2007, 11:49 AM

Good job fixboot. Heck, put yourself in that poor woman's shoes. Wouldn't you want someone to help you? I know domestic violence gets very messy, but calling the cops and following from a distance is not the same as getting out of the car and holding him at gun point. Great job and I'm sure that woman really appreciates you too!

Quote:

Originally Posted by mete

So you drove into harms way !! You're lucky you didn't get killed.What ever possessed you to go toward the shooting ??? You should have stopped immediately when you heard the shots and made your call.

Yeah...

and it just becomes another report on an officer's desk and maybe a woman gets killed. Having a mentality like this and expecting the police to keep the streets safe is what leads to the degradation of society. If you don't care enough to look out for your neighbors, don't expect them to look after you. Sooner or later, your neighborhood will go down in the dumps. But thats okay... just call the police while you hide in your house. :barf:

OBIWAN · February 16, 2007, 12:44 PM

It doesn't seem clear to me that he put himself in "harms way"

Sounds like he made a good compromise between safety and civic duty

mete · February 16, 2007, 05:13 PM

He drove into a situation where SHOTS WERE FIRED without knowing who shot them and why.That's going into harms way !!! He should have stopped 1/2 or 1 block away and looked and listened while he phoned 911. When he saw an assault he should have flashed his lights and sounded his horn .He also ASSUMED the man was the shooter !! It might have been the woman or someone else ! Here's a case that happened years ago here.Armed BG takes a hostage and heads down the street. Cops are called.Cop finds man with a gun standing over another man. Cop ASSUMES man with gun is BG and shoots him.FACTS ? Hostage overpowers BG and takes his gun so cop shoots GG !!!Cops paid for that one !...BTW I've been carrying for over 35 years and I've survived this long by not doing anything dumb !!

Sturmgewehre · February 16, 2007, 05:23 PM

Quote:

You heard gunshots from a nearby street. You turned in to investigate, because of a prior incident. You observed from a discrete distance. You stayed out of the way. You notified the police. You followed the suspected shooter at a discrete distance, keeping the police advised of the situation.

Scumbag was apprehended by the police, following your directions. Police knew who you were because you relayed your description and your vehicles description to them.

What's not to like? Were you in danger? Quite possibly, but you did your civic duty anyway.

I agree. I think you did a great job. If that were my daughter, friend or wife in that car I would be very thankful for your bravery. God only knows what that man had in store for that woman. You may have just saved a life.

We need more people willing to take a stand. They're our streets, homes and communities too.

Again, GOOD JOB.

banditt007 · February 16, 2007, 05:54 PM

Nice work

DeathRodent · February 16, 2007, 06:15 PM

Good Job.

Now learn how to use the enter key and make paragraphs - your post will be much easier to read.

If you are not sure just space every couple pf sentences.

fixboot · February 16, 2007, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Good Job.

Now learn how to use the enter key and make paragraphs - your post will be much easier to read.

If you are not sure just space every couple pf sentences.

HAHA! Understood.

Powderman · February 16, 2007, 06:39 PM

IMHO......

THANK you. You stepped into the breach and possibly saved a life. That took cojones, my friend. Muy hombre, muchacho. Muy hombre.

cuate · February 16, 2007, 07:34 PM

ditto what Powderman said !!!!

faust · February 17, 2007, 02:08 AM

There was a woman being hurt and shots being fired. You got cajones.

I'm impressed and proud of you. You did the Right Thing!.
It is everyone's responsibility to help those in need. Let's hope there are more like you around when *I* need help.

Socrates · February 17, 2007, 03:13 AM

I hope this guy never makes bail, and, I sincerely hope he's not a Hell's Angel, Meth gang, Mexican mob, etc,.or any other group that goes after witnesses, etc.

Let us know how this plays out, as the guy goes to trial.

Angel's have a code that if one is attacked, they all attack. Wannabe's gf started something at 2 am, outside a bar, kid is stabbed, but lives. Kid won't testify, for fear of reprisal. Investigating officers find the Wannabe has disappeared. Conjecture is the Great Whites had a tidbit, and, the issue dies along with the guy that started it.

Police are happy, source of problem elimenated. Kid and family are happy, nothing to testify for, Hell's Angels are happy: may need another tatoo artist, but, they can live with that, and, they have the police off their backs. DA is happy: bad guy gets what he really deserves, without a million dollar trial they'd probably loose anyway. Heck, maybe even the Wannabe is happy: he got to find out what REALLY being a Hell's Angel is about.

S

BillCA · February 17, 2007, 03:30 AM

Fixboot,

First of all, good job! You did what we all want our fellow citizens to do - aid the cops in capturing a BG.

Next steps, contact the PD and find out if the BG is a member of any gangs or if this was strictly a "solo performance". If he's a member of a gang, you'll want to start thinking of safety measures for you & your family. Then, go get that CCW class done with and submit your application pronto.

fixboot · February 17, 2007, 10:27 AM

Since this all started a few blocks from my house, I was already thinking of my car possibly being identified by this jackass/friends of jackass so we decided we're going to maaco for a 200$ respray next payday. Paint looks like crap anyway. I didnt think to call the officer and ask about gang history, thats a damn good idea! Thanks.

If anybody DID try to "come get me", there had better be alot of them and they better know what their doing! Lets see, theres the,

12 gauge in the trunk, loaded with eight #4 buck - (3" mag slugs in glovebox)
S&W .40 open carried when possible with two 15 rounds mags (180g JHP)
AK-47 in the living room closet with two 30 round clamped mags (154g JHP)
10/22 on the dining room wall with two 25 round clamped mags (40g hp)
MANY fun weapons in the bedroom and concealed on my person as soon as I get that pesky ccw..........

All of these stay loaded, only the bedroom toys and the trunk cannons are kept with one in the chamber, my better half is trained on ALL of these fine insturments of protection.

Im sure if they wanted me dead bad enough they might get me but not without a HUGE fight and some casualties of their own.

Hmm......does this post make me an internet commando?

February 16, 2007, 04:58 AM	#1
fixboot Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2006 Location: Salem oreGUN Posts: 230	The local PD likes me tonight What a night, I gave a friend a ride home from work around 11pm. Im almost home when the sidestreet im passing erupts with gunfire, 4 or 5 shots im not totally sure. I dont really know what possesed me to turn down the street but I did. I drove about a block down and saw an suv parked halfway in the street. As I drove by a man came flying out of the house with a female right behind him. As he tried to get in the vehicle she grabbed and clawed him to keep him out of it, then he stiff armed her away. At this point I had turned around and was parked 100 or so feet behind them and I made the call to 911. I explained what had happened so far as they continued to yell and fight. Appearently other reports of gunfire in the area had come in so I had to assume it was this guy. I still had my headlights on and I think he made me, he pushed down the female and slowly drove off. Screw this I thought and maybe unwisely, I followed. He drove like a normal person until we crossed the main drive in town then he TOOK OFF! Im calmly relaying my exact location to the OP as we passed side streets. So now my speedo says 50mph and he is pulling away fast! Screw it im already in it right? I kept up with him as best I could and kept feeding info to the OP. She tells me officers are close so I backed off a little and made sure of where he turned. Cul-de-sac! I stopped at the intersection just as the flashing blue and reds came screaming in. OP told the officers on scene where I was and told me to stay put. One came to question me and he confirmed that the man was going to jail! They found the weapon AND had talked to the woman he was beating. The officer made it sound like the guy is gonna go down for a while! He questioned me, thanked me for doing what I had done, gave me a card with his name and a case number on it, warned me about possibly being subpenoed to testify in court and sent me on my way. 30 minutes later he called and asked to meet me with a few more questions. He JUST NOW left my house........wow I really have a buzz from all this! Looking back I probably should have broken off once he started speeding thru a residential area but Im kind of glad I chose to stay with him! I do understand that police have lawers and insurance to help them if bad things happen in a chase but I had tunnel vision on that guys bumper and I just couldnt let go. Maybe this guy was the source of the shots I heard a few days ago in my area. Too bad I have to start my graveyard shift as I would love to stick around for the responses (and lashings?) from you guys. To anyone that reads this all the way thru, thanks for letting me share my awesome experiance! Man it feels good to be a good citizen! --Damn I have GOT to go take the ccw class next payday, my neighborhood is getting downright SCARY! __________________ Nothing is more satisfying than a brick of .22, a few empty soda cans and all day to shoot at them..........nothing other than......Hmm...maybe my AK-47 and a bag of apples? DAMMIT who has 7.62x39 on sale right now? Last edited by fixboot; February 16, 2007 at 08:22 AM.

February 16, 2007, 06:12 AM	#3
gdvan01 Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2006 Location: Home of the first First Lady Posts: 463	fixboot - FWIW, the asterisks don't always work... __________________ NRA Endowment Life Member Proud Son of a former Tomb Guard

February 16, 2007, 09:27 AM	#6
Samurai Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2001 Location: Knoxville, TN Posts: 901	Really _____, fixboot... ... and nicely done. Edit: Ok, not stupid. Just really crazy. Good job, all the same. __________________ - Honor is a wonderful and glorious thing... until it gets you killed! - Why is it that we fire 1,000 rounds and know that we need more practice, but yet we punch a bag 10 times and think we know how to fight? - When in doubt, train, train, train... Last edited by Samurai; February 16, 2007 at 11:47 AM. Reason: Ok, not stupid. Just really crazy. Good job, all the same.

February 16, 2007, 09:45 AM	#7
mikejonestkd Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2006 Location: Brockport, NY Posts: 3,717	I am not sure if I should congratulate you for coming to that aid of a person in need or congratulate you for not getting killed. Either way.....congratulations!!!!! __________________ You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.

February 16, 2007, 09:46 AM	#8
fixboot Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2006 Location: Salem oreGUN Posts: 230	Thanks guys.......The officer I talked to on scene was cool as hell. I had mentioned offhand that I had been planning on taking my training classes and getting the ccw. His response I found amusing, he said, "Im 100% with you and I say go for it, but most officers refuse to promote civillian carry" He said something to the effect of untrained people with guns making them nervous. With good reason I guess after reading a thread on the subject around here somewhere. He kind of seemed impressed I even knew what I was talking about with regards to concealed carry. He even reccommended a local instructor who is a friend of his! Cops like this guy almost make me want to volunteer for the PD. God what a night.....never called 911 in my life then twice in one week ending with a car chase! Now that all the action is over I find myself bored. Wish the damn local range was public! __________________ Nothing is more satisfying than a brick of .22, a few empty soda cans and all day to shoot at them..........nothing other than......Hmm...maybe my AK-47 and a bag of apples? DAMMIT who has 7.62x39 on sale right now?

February 16, 2007, 05:56 AM	#2
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	So you drove into harms way !! You're lucky you didn't get killed.What ever possessed you to go toward the shooting ??? You should have stopped immediately when you heard the shots and made your call.

February 16, 2007, 09:16 AM	#5
Al Norris Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 29, 2000 Location: Rupert, Idaho Posts: 9,660	You heard gunshots from a nearby street. You turned in to investigate, because of a prior incident. You observed from a discrete distance. You stayed out of the way. You notified the police. You followed the suspected shooter at a discrete distance, keeping the police advised of the situation. Scumbag was apprehended by the police, following your directions. Police knew who you were because you relayed your description and your vehicles description to them. What's not to like? Were you in danger? Quite possibly, but you did your civic duty anyway.

February 16, 2007, 10:00 AM	#9
Geohff Junior Member Join Date: January 22, 2007 Posts: 9	What if? That's a big question to consider. What if something bad happened to him? It did not so he in hind site did the right thing in the cosmic scheam of things. Some other what if's to consider. What if his act kept this bad-guy from coming back and killing this lady? What if this civic minded person got home, woke the next morning and read about that killing, knowing he could have done something? I say good job! You seemed to have used good judgement from the moment you made the choice to take that turn. Had you been armed I would consider your act less brave, but you were not motivated by gun bravado but by civic duty. Had it got hairy no shame in fleeing then but as long as you had a feeling of control you stuck with it. Sadly I fear for you the hard part was not the choices you made that night but what you will now have to face. Lost time from work - for court, fear of a "nut" bent on revenge, those who would call you and your choice stupid. I say we all share the civic duty this guy showed, using common sense and sound judgement we can make a diffrence. I hope his family, friends and co-workers support him now after what is and not bash him for what if's. __________________ Dutch Jacks Civil War Books www.dutchjackscivilwarbooks.com

February 16, 2007, 10:13 AM	#10
RecoveringGT'er Member Join Date: October 10, 2006 Posts: 82	I'll add my congrats. If more people actually took the effort that you did, we'd have safer streets. Good work. __________________ "Justitia fiat, ruat coleum." - "Let justice be done, though the heavens may fall"

February 16, 2007, 11:31 AM	#11
wolverine350 Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 2006 Location: ponca city ok Posts: 746	i think you done what everyone should a done, was get another hothead off the street with no desire but to shoot a place up, cool and keen thinking on your part, nothing stupid about it, no need to take a lashing from anyone for doin it, you did what you thought you should do and were thanked for doin so

February 16, 2007, 11:33 AM	#12
smooks75 Senior Member Join Date: June 27, 2006 Location: Reno, Nevada Posts: 161	fixboot Good job!!

February 16, 2007, 12:44 PM	#14
OBIWAN Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 1999 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,340	It doesn't seem clear to me that he put himself in "harms way" Sounds like he made a good compromise between safety and civic duty

February 16, 2007, 05:13 PM	#15
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	He drove into a situation where SHOTS WERE FIRED without knowing who shot them and why.That's going into harms way !!! He should have stopped 1/2 or 1 block away and looked and listened while he phoned 911. When he saw an assault he should have flashed his lights and sounded his horn .He also ASSUMED the man was the shooter !! It might have been the woman or someone else ! Here's a case that happened years ago here.Armed BG takes a hostage and heads down the street. Cops are called.Cop finds man with a gun standing over another man. Cop ASSUMES man with gun is BG and shoots him.FACTS ? Hostage overpowers BG and takes his gun so cop shoots GG !!!Cops paid for that one !...BTW I've been carrying for over 35 years and I've survived this long by not doing anything dumb !!

February 16, 2007, 05:54 PM	#17
banditt007 Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2006 Posts: 694	Nice work

February 16, 2007, 06:15 PM	#18
DeathRodent Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2006 Posts: 209	Good Job. Now learn how to use the enter key and make paragraphs - your post will be much easier to read. If you are not sure just space every couple pf sentences.

February 16, 2007, 06:39 PM	#20
Powderman Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2001 Location: Washington State Posts: 2,166	IMHO...... THANK you. You stepped into the breach and possibly saved a life. That took cojones, my friend. Muy hombre, muchacho. Muy hombre. __________________ Hiding in plain sight...

February 16, 2007, 07:34 PM	#21
cuate Junior member Join Date: February 18, 2005 Location: Comanche Co. Texas Posts: 737	ditto what Powderman said !!!!

February 17, 2007, 02:08 AM	#22
faust Junior Member Join Date: August 27, 2006 Posts: 13	There was a woman being hurt and shots being fired. You got cajones. I'm impressed and proud of you. You did the Right Thing!. It is everyone's responsibility to help those in need. Let's hope there are more like you around when I need help.

February 17, 2007, 03:13 AM	#23
Socrates Junior member Join Date: January 5, 2005 Location: East Bay NorCal, People's Republik of Kalifornia Posts: 5,866	I hope this guy never makes bail, and, I sincerely hope he's not a Hell's Angel, Meth gang, Mexican mob, etc,.or any other group that goes after witnesses, etc. Let us know how this plays out, as the guy goes to trial. Angel's have a code that if one is attacked, they all attack. Wannabe's gf started something at 2 am, outside a bar, kid is stabbed, but lives. Kid won't testify, for fear of reprisal. Investigating officers find the Wannabe has disappeared. Conjecture is the Great Whites had a tidbit, and, the issue dies along with the guy that started it. Police are happy, source of problem elimenated. Kid and family are happy, nothing to testify for, Hell's Angels are happy: may need another tatoo artist, but, they can live with that, and, they have the police off their backs. DA is happy: bad guy gets what he really deserves, without a million dollar trial they'd probably loose anyway. Heck, maybe even the Wannabe is happy: he got to find out what REALLY being a Hell's Angel is about. S

February 17, 2007, 03:30 AM	#24
BillCA Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2004 Location: Silicon Valley, Ca Posts: 7,117	Fixboot, First of all, good job! You did what we all want our fellow citizens to do - aid the cops in capturing a BG. Next steps, contact the PD and find out if the BG is a member of any gangs or if this was strictly a "solo performance". If he's a member of a gang, you'll want to start thinking of safety measures for you & your family. Then, go get that CCW class done with and submit your application pronto. __________________ BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)

February 17, 2007, 10:27 AM	#25
fixboot Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2006 Location: Salem oreGUN Posts: 230	Since this all started a few blocks from my house, I was already thinking of my car possibly being identified by this jackass/friends of jackass so we decided we're going to maaco for a 200$ respray next payday. Paint looks like crap anyway. I didnt think to call the officer and ask about gang history, thats a damn good idea! Thanks. If anybody DID try to "come get me", there had better be alot of them and they better know what their doing! Lets see, theres the, 12 gauge in the trunk, loaded with eight #4 buck - (3" mag slugs in glovebox) S&W .40 open carried when possible with two 15 rounds mags (180g JHP) AK-47 in the living room closet with two 30 round clamped mags (154g JHP) 10/22 on the dining room wall with two 25 round clamped mags (40g hp) MANY fun weapons in the bedroom and concealed on my person as soon as I get that pesky ccw.......... All of these stay loaded, only the bedroom toys and the trunk cannons are kept with one in the chamber, my better half is trained on ALL of these fine insturments of protection. Im sure if they wanted me dead bad enough they might get me but not without a HUGE fight and some casualties of their own. Hmm......does this post make me an internet commando? __________________ Nothing is more satisfying than a brick of .22, a few empty soda cans and all day to shoot at them..........nothing other than......Hmm...maybe my AK-47 and a bag of apples? DAMMIT who has 7.62x39 on sale right now?