|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Today's Posts | Search |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
April 8, 2011, 09:01 PM | #51 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 29, 2004
Posts: 3,351
|
Quote:
His trip stopped being continuous from legal startng location to legal ending location. Yep, it sucks, but that the law does not have an exception. |
|
April 8, 2011, 10:43 PM | #52 | |
Staff
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 18,468
|
Quote:
I just don't think that's consistent with the legislative intent of the law. If you set out on a trip like that, you tell people you're going on "a" road trip to Miami. You don't tell people you're going on a succession of five consecutive road trips. It's ONE trip, with five legs. I understand your point, but the ONLY reason the gentleman stayed a night in New Jersey was that his connection got messed up. He had no "destination" in New Jersey, he had no reason to be there other than to travel through there, and he never even left the airport -- he slept in an airport hotel. That sort of activity is commonplace in traveling. Why else do you suppose the prosecutor dropped the case? If your view is correct, the prosecutor had a slam dunk ... but he declined to prosecute. I don't think it was because he's such a great guy. And this is why I repeat that the FOPA is flawed. It was intended to make it possible for people to engage in interstate travel without having to worry about the laws on intervening states. BUT ... the dweebs who wrote the law forgot that people travel from one state to another by means other than automobile -- such as airplanes and trains. Buses, too, but if you leave your gun in your suitcase and the suitcase goes into the cargo area under the floor, technically you comply with the requirement. Unless your view is correct ... in which case nobody can take a trip to anywhere that requires more than one day of travel time. |
|
April 9, 2011, 08:21 AM | #53 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 20, 2007
Location: South Western OK
Posts: 3,112
|
Quote:
The guy also retrieved his luggage with the gun inside; in violation of NJ law. |
|
April 9, 2011, 08:48 AM | #54 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 29, 2004
Posts: 3,351
|
Quote:
Unless the idea of long trips came up during the debate on the bill in Congress there is not even any Congressional Record discussion and legislative intent for a court to rely on. The law (as most) has defects. Using court action to extend the law is treading on thin ground (the same court action can be used against you in ways you may not favor). Be careful what power you are wiling to grant the courts, it may not always be to your benefit. |
|
April 9, 2011, 09:06 AM | #55 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 20, 2007
Location: South Western OK
Posts: 3,112
|
The court has already acted on this one. A federal appeals court ruled that the Utah man could not sue the Port Authority and NJ police. The SCOTUS let that ruling stand.
Quote:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110118/...urt_gun_arrest |
|
April 9, 2011, 11:33 AM | #56 | |
Staff
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 18,468
|
Quote:
This is where the law is unclear. You apparently agree with Brickeyee that the man from Utah had a "destination" in NJ and that his trip ended simply because he retrieved his luggage at the airport. I hold the view that he was still traveling and was covered by the FOPA, thus NJ law did not apply. Unfortunately, we will never know on the basis of this case, because the case was not tried. The prosecutor dropped the charges, so there was no conviction. The man eventually got his gun (or was it guns?) back, so there was no confiscation. And THAT's why the SCOTUS refused to reinstate his lawsuit. Had he been convicted and appealed, I believe the SCOTUS would have accepted the case but, since "all" he lost was some time and a "few" thousand dollars, the SCOTUS played the "no harm, no foul" card. Brickeyee, no I do not want the courts to rewrite the law. I want the Congress to rewrite the law. But asking that the courts apply the law as it was obviously intended to be used is not legislating from the bench. The law was enacted for the express purpose of allowing firearms owners to transport their firearms with them when traveling interstate. Nowhere does the law limit a trip to a single day. The law provides that if the firearm is not locked in the trunk of a vehicle, it must be in a locked case. The man from Utah had his gun(s) in a locked case. It's just NOT a major judicial overreach to determine that his actions were in conformance with the intent of the FOPA and were covered by it. Why ELSE do you think the prosecutor declined to prosecute? |
|
April 9, 2011, 08:11 PM | #57 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 20, 2007
Location: South Western OK
Posts: 3,112
|
For many years the NRA warned folks about flying out of Newark, JFK and La Guardia with guns in their luggage. The cops in NJ could care less about FOPA or anything else. If you're stopped and have out of state tags they will arrest you if a gun is found in your car.
Don't hold your breath until the US congress fixes this one. |
April 9, 2011, 09:47 PM | #58 | |
Staff
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 18,468
|
Quote:
However, as far as driving with out-of-state plates ... stay on the turnpike and you won't have any problem. New Jersey state law includes a verbatim (one word is different) echo of the FOPA, and it's included right on the NJ State Police web site. I would not, however, count on small town police or county mounties to be up to speed on it, or to honor it. |
|
April 9, 2011, 10:29 PM | #59 |
Junior member
Join Date: November 25, 2002
Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 14,172
|
Funny, when my dad passed in NJ 5 years ago, I grabbed his guns, got a form from the cops that I was removing the guns, and sent my green card wife off to Alaska from Newark with the guns (OK I was there with her until after luggage was checked, my flight was later)
WildnohasslesAlaska ™©2002-2011 |
April 10, 2011, 12:57 PM | #60 | |
Staff
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 18,468
|
Quote:
IIRC the New Jersey version says "and" rather than "or." The FOPA would trump the NJ version, legally, but why take a chance. On those few occasions when I have traveled the NJ turnpike with guns and ammo in the car, since I drive a station wagon I locked the guns in their little cases and I locked the ammo in an old Pelican computer suitcase (one of the big, aluminum jobbies). |
|
April 11, 2011, 11:32 AM | #61 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
|
Aguila Blanca...
.... I'm aware of the recent case at Newark. I'm saying that I've read about a previous case, in the New York area, that was NOT the Newark case.
|
April 11, 2011, 01:01 PM | #62 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 13, 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,254
|
Look, NJ sucks end of story. There argument solved
|
April 11, 2011, 01:39 PM | #63 | ||
Staff
Join Date: July 28, 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 8,821
|
Caveat: I am not a New Jersey lawyer.
Quote:
Quote:
If federal law requires that ammo or firearm be stored in a locked container other than the console or glove compartment, and state law requires that ammo and firearm be so stored, it's entirely possible that state law will be held not to conflict with federal law at all. |
||
April 11, 2011, 01:44 PM | #64 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 29, 2004
Posts: 3,351
|
Quote:
Congress simply failed to think through all the possible repercussions, and then document them in the law in a manner allowing a court to find them. At least some of the problem with poorly written laws can probably be plased at the feet of the second rate attorneys that usually end up there. If they were all that good they would be earning so much money they would be foolish to enter politics. |
|
|
|