SodaPop's 22 Pop Festival!!Sunday October 6th!!!!

Jamie Young · September 15, 2002, 03:13 AM

Keeping with the theme of our most successful TFL gathering, this will be our second "22LR Pop Festival" of 2002.

You are all required to bring a 22LR pistol, or rifle, and TONS AND TONS OF AMMO!!

I got a 10/22 now, so I won't feel so left out.....like last time.

If you don't have a 22LR rifle/pistol you gotta bring a box of 22LR ammo.

There will also be an open house at the 200yd range for anyone that wants to try out various Battle rifles and Assault rifles. I personally would like to see everyone try out a FAL,M1A,AR,SAR I,SAR II, SKS and any other battle/assault rifle I can get my hands on. If you try out all of those rifles in one day you'll have more experience than half the goof balls that hang out in the Rifle forum. Maybe I can get Jody Hudson to bring his Daewoo.

If any of you have a Military bolt action or Assault rifle/Battle Rifle other than the FAL,M1A,AR ,SKS or AK variant, please let me know. I have a ton of ammo for all of you new shooters, so come all ye newbies!!

There is a 50/50 chance I can get a guy to bring his 50BMG there.

We will also be hitting the 5 stand next to the pistol range at some point in the day. Come out and watch "Soda" smuther "9mmMike" and "K80Geoff" at the 5 stand.

If you want to stretch your legs, you'll have access to a 100-500yd rifle range also.

The shoot will be held at:

Water and Wings
9173 Janes Lane
East Greenville,PA 18041
215-679-6633

The club is right off of the Northeast extension of the PA turnpike. Its VERY, VERY, EASY to get to.

No ducking out because of the Eagles game either. You can come and shoot and then go home and watch the game in the afternoon.

FlyinGN · September 15, 2002, 06:24 PM

looks like a plan

Frank

Jamie Young · September 15, 2002, 06:37 PM

I've been doing this for awhile now and I'm going to smack a few people around at the club to give all the TFL members a discount on the normal $20 fee. If we have as many people come out as we did at the last "22 Pop Festival" we should get a break. There is food and drinks in the main building so you should all be able to grab some artery clogging items in there. Too bad I don't have a Pepsi machine in there.

I can't wait for the day I have an old Coke or Pepsi machine break down. Maybe we could shoot one someday.

Don't forget to bring your shotguns !!

David Park · September 15, 2002, 08:10 PM

Soda, how can you call the last .22 festa "our most successful TFL gathering" when I wasn't there?

This one's on the calendar. Maybe I'll have some new toys to bring.

Jamie Young · September 15, 2002, 09:29 PM

Quote:

when I wasn't there?

No comment

There was such a heap of spent 22LR brass laying around last time. I think we went threw a bazzillion rounds. Maybe I should have called this gathering the "22LR Cheap Shoot!" Spend $10 on a brick of ammo and your all smiles for the rest of the day.

I'm staking claim to all 45acp brass. I'm poor and I have to reload for economic reasons.

Where's John Wayne????? Is he back from NC yet?

9mmMike · September 16, 2002, 01:52 PM

I'm back from NC. I think that I have to scoot down to Miami on the 5th for a week though. I will know for sure when I get back to work tomorrow. If I am in PA, there is no way that I will miss the Pop Festival. The last one was a hoot. I will also bring an M1A for folks to try.
I have never done 5-stand but I accept the challenge and my 870 will be ready.
Mike

Jamie Young · September 16, 2002, 03:21 PM

Quote:

I have never done 5-stand but I accept the challenge and my 870 will be ready.

Geoff and I did it last week. I wasn't that far behind him. He starting complaining about being all tired and sore from driving. Now I know his weakness.

We'll hit the 5 stand late in the day when he's all worn out.

Dot_mdb · September 16, 2002, 06:51 PM

I'll be there.

Bill

Jamie Young · September 17, 2002, 12:38 AM

Here is a picture of some of us at the last one.

TIGERSHARK · September 17, 2002, 12:56 AM

sounds like a blast to me,
Can I bring my BUSHMASTER - AR15 ??

TIGERSHARK · September 17, 2002, 01:44 AM

I just got a new scope for my 30-06
perfect time to sight her in....

Jamie Young · September 17, 2002, 02:20 AM

Sure you can! I'm bringing my AR! I have to get a hold of "Dead" and get him to bring all of his commie guns.

rocko · September 17, 2002, 08:16 AM

Sounds like fun - I hope I can make it. Water and Wings was recommended to me years ago (when it was still Twin S), but I never got a chance to check it out. Since becoming Water and Wings, I've heard that they've become alot less "evil black rifle" friendly. Your suggestion that everyone bring their black rifles along seemingly goes against that, but since this is more or less a special event, who knows... Any truth to this? I'm looking for a new "home", but don't want to pay membership fees only to deal with the "why do you need one of those" guys on a regular basis.

I found references to their website at http://www.waterandwings.com , but have been unable to get there the past couple of days. Does anyone have a copy of their range rules, or could provide the cliffnotes version? Wondering specifically if these are allowed:

- full auto (don't own any yet, but someday!)
- rapid semi-auto fire
- tracers (weather/dryness permitting)
- reactive targets (no "junk" like appliances, computers, etc, but small stuff that's easy to clean up like milk jugs, tennis balls on string, bowling pins, etc.)

Thanks.

jmlv · September 17, 2002, 09:11 AM

I can bring if I can make it. Intrested? 762x54, think I have some ball ammo around here somewhere too. How many shotgun shells do we need? (IE should I go to Wal-Mark and pick up a couple of {hundred round} bulk packs?)
I asume you mean 22 pistols too? How about an old Mossberg model 44 US target rifle? sounds like fun Hope I can make it.

Jamie Young · September 17, 2002, 09:58 AM

Rocko,

Water and Wings had a lot of problems with some of the people that moved into a new development in the area. Water and Wings has been there for almost 40yrs and some people decided to buy houses near it and then say they didn't like the noise. They have had people go "horse-back riding" and kids riding "ATVs" on the rifle range while people were shooting. Someone also burned down the 500yds range because they were using incidiary rounds. YES there has been some turmoil there but they are ABSOLUTELY assault weapon friendly. Its only $100 for the rifle and pistol range membership. If you go 5 times you got your money's worth.

I can bend some of the rules there because I'm in pretty good with the managment. We shoot sporting clays and paper targets. Sometimes you can "ask" to set up some other kinds of targets. They've let me from time to time. There is more room at the 200yd range and its a nice spot to get off the benches.

JMLV- Bring it if you come(you better come).

MLC · September 17, 2002, 12:21 PM

I was going to post a request for a PA TFL shoot at W&W.
I went a couple weekends ago and they were closed.
Of course I am the dumba** that thought a rainy Labor day Sunday would be a great day to go, no crowds.
I'm working on loads for my 6mm and 308 Remmy's to try out at the longer ranges. Got a couple thumbhole ak's, beater L1a1, faux M4, 1917 sporter that shoots great, Glock 20, HK Tac 45, P7 9mm. As well as the requisite marlin 60 & henry lever.

rocko · September 17, 2002, 12:56 PM

Soda,

Sounds good. I just checked out Mapquest and its only 35 miles away - closer than I thought. I was also thinking of checking out Bucks County Fish & Game, but it seems like WW might be the better choice.

Also somewhat off topic - any of you SE PA guys ever get together to purchase reloading components mail order, or know of any good place to buy them locally? I'm just getting started myself and can't see buying the quantity necessary to make the hazmat fees worth it for just myself. I can see buying powder by the pound from local gunshops isn't going to save me very much, and there only ever seems to be one guy selling powder at the local shows at only marginally better prices. Right now looking for some surplus and/or pulldown for .223 and .308...

Rocko

Jamie Young · September 17, 2002, 01:37 PM

The big gun shows at Fort Washington (now defunct) and the Valley Forge shows have lots and lots of reloading components. I'm pretty boring when it comes to reloading. I get all of my stuff from www.wideners.com. Everything I reload for 45acp,223, and 308 are all IMI (Israeli Military Industries). Excellent bullets in bulk for plinking.

Bring the M4 if you can. Let's make this a Gun show too!

I think I'll bring everything I own just for the heck of it.

jmlv · September 17, 2002, 02:39 PM

in furlong PA? (by doylstown) Its just 5 minutes from tanners on 263. Nice place. My buddies family ownes it and we have 2 day shoots there once a years or so from another site(sixgunner.com)
(Next one is in april 2003) maybe we could have a TFL shoot there
some time.
sodapop, which is it you want the mossy or the mosin or both <VBG>?
Also just how many shotgun shells should I bring?

Pappy John · September 17, 2002, 03:10 PM

I figure it'll be around 75 miles for me, but I'll make it if I can, Soda. Gotta see how your 10/22 shoots now.

dinosaur · September 17, 2002, 04:03 PM

Soda;

I got your PM the other day. I had my 3rd heart attack a month ago but except for the allergies, I feel better than after the 2nd.

My lady friend wants to learn how to shoot so I`ll see if she wants to come. She of the strong back.

I`ll let you know. I`m thinking of getting the Rossi pump like Marcus` dad has. I do have the S&W Model 17 and the M1A with the Aimpoint red dot.

Anyone in the Hazleton area? We`re having a car show Oct. 4th from 6-9 p.m. weather permitting at Sheetz which is a huge gas station on rte 309 and the Airport Road.

I`ll know more as we get closer to the 6th.

RAY WOODROW 3RD · September 17, 2002, 05:00 PM

Can't make it. I have a gun club meeting on Sunday. Sorry guys. Saturday would be much better..........Oh well................

Our meetings are the first Sunday of the month and I'm the Secretary. No Secretary, no properly recorded meeting. DUTY CALLS!

K80Geoff · September 17, 2002, 05:22 PM

Re 5 stand.

OK Mr Pop! Let's not forget I was shooting a 20GA

As to range rules. Full auto and tracers are not allowed. The tracers because some dufus set the 500 yd berm on fire! As to reactive targets, if you mean explosive targets probably not. Most ranges will not allow them.

They are Black Rifle friendly, I bring mine from New York because this is the only place I can shoot them without being hasseled.

Last weekend the guy shooting blackpowder had a target frame set up at 50 yds on the 100 yard range. Perhaps we could get a reliable frame and use the 200 yd range to properly zero the AR's at 25 meters? Anybody have a portable target frame? I have seen them in magazines, may get one myself.

9mmMike · September 17, 2002, 05:46 PM

Well that didn't take too long. I will be in Miami so I'm out. Rats.
Things will be calming down (as far as weekends go) by the middle of October though.
I'll have to meet you and Geoff and ? for a mini-TFL shoot in Oct or Nov or Dec....
I am gonna try to cruise up to FC to bust some clays this Saturday though.

Geoff, was that 20 gauge loaded with slugs too?

Mike

rocko · September 17, 2002, 06:02 PM

Quote:

As to reactive targets, if you mean explosive targets probably not. Most ranges will not allow them.

No - didn't mean explosive stuff (ala tannerite), just "non-paper" targets. Many ranges around here will only let you shoot paper (likely cause no one knows how to clean up after themselves anymore), but it is sometimes more fun, especially for first time shooters I think, so shoot at something that moves when you hit it - that's where "reactive" comes from. Basically was wondering about the less messy sort of reactive targets like water jugs, bowling pins, etc. but I think Soda pretty much answered that with a definite "maybe"

.

My only .22 is a browning buckmark, but I'll probably bring along an SAR-1, SAR-2, 84s, M4gery in 5.56 (the 2001 ar15.com LEGP), and an AR in 9mm. Perhaps my SAR-8 (hk91 clone) if it is back from Springfield by then and the 700 LTR, if I complete the barrel break in before then (I'll save the tedious stuff when I'm at the range by myself). I don't have much ammo for any of my C&R rifles, so they'll probably stay at home. Pistol I can bring a USP tactical, USPc .40, bulgy mak, CZ-52 and the aforementioned buckmark. Shotgun-wise, I just have an M1 super 90. Ugh - that's alot of cleaning for a Sunday night!

Rocko

September 15, 2002, 03:13 AM	#1
Jamie Young Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2000 Location: SE/PA Posts: 4,834	SodaPop's 22 Pop Festival!!Sunday October 6th!!!! Keeping with the theme of our most successful TFL gathering, this will be our second "22LR Pop Festival" of 2002. You are all required to bring a 22LR pistol, or rifle, and TONS AND TONS OF AMMO!! I got a 10/22 now, so I won't feel so left out.....like last time. If you don't have a 22LR rifle/pistol you gotta bring a box of 22LR ammo. There will also be an open house at the 200yd range for anyone that wants to try out various Battle rifles and Assault rifles. I personally would like to see everyone try out a FAL,M1A,AR,SAR I,SAR II, SKS and any other battle/assault rifle I can get my hands on. If you try out all of those rifles in one day you'll have more experience than half the goof balls that hang out in the Rifle forum. Maybe I can get Jody Hudson to bring his Daewoo. If any of you have a Military bolt action or Assault rifle/Battle Rifle other than the FAL,M1A,AR ,SKS or AK variant, please let me know. I have a ton of ammo for all of you new shooters, so come all ye newbies!! There is a 50/50 chance I can get a guy to bring his 50BMG there. We will also be hitting the 5 stand next to the pistol range at some point in the day. Come out and watch "Soda" smuther "9mmMike" and "K80Geoff" at the 5 stand. If you want to stretch your legs, you'll have access to a 100-500yd rifle range also. The shoot will be held at: Water and Wings 9173 Janes Lane East Greenville,PA 18041 215-679-6633 The club is right off of the Northeast extension of the PA turnpike. Its VERY, VERY, EASY to get to. No ducking out because of the Eagles game either. You can come and shoot and then go home and watch the game in the afternoon. __________________ Find out about Gun Shows and Training activities. www.TheRallyPoint.org Get your gun club involved!! Last edited by Jamie Young; September 15, 2002 at 09:36 PM.

September 15, 2002, 06:37 PM	#3
Jamie Young Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2000 Location: SE/PA Posts: 4,834	I've been doing this for awhile now and I'm going to smack a few people around at the club to give all the TFL members a discount on the normal $20 fee. If we have as many people come out as we did at the last "22 Pop Festival" we should get a break. There is food and drinks in the main building so you should all be able to grab some artery clogging items in there. Too bad I don't have a Pepsi machine in there. I can't wait for the day I have an old Coke or Pepsi machine break down. Maybe we could shoot one someday. Don't forget to bring your shotguns !! __________________ Find out about Gun Shows and Training activities. www.TheRallyPoint.org Get your gun club involved!!

September 16, 2002, 01:52 PM	#6
9mmMike Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2000 Location: SE PA Posts: 1,049	I'm back from NC. I think that I have to scoot down to Miami on the 5th for a week though. I will know for sure when I get back to work tomorrow. If I am in PA, there is no way that I will miss the Pop Festival. The last one was a hoot. I will also bring an M1A for folks to try. I have never done 5-stand but I accept the challenge and my 870 will be ready. Mike __________________ "Freedom is not free" Visit TheRallyPoint.org TheRallyPoint at LRGC- Saturday August 26th IF YOU LIVE IN PA AND DID NOT VOTE, YOU DESERVE TO LOSE YOUR GUNS!

September 17, 2002, 12:56 AM	#10
TIGERSHARK Member Join Date: August 26, 2002 Location: Peoples republic of new germany Posts: 66	hey, sounds like a blast to me, Can I bring my BUSHMASTER - AR15 ??

September 17, 2002, 01:44 AM	#11
TIGERSHARK Member Join Date: August 26, 2002 Location: Peoples republic of new germany Posts: 66	hey I just got a new scope for my 30-06 perfect time to sight her in.... __________________ A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

September 15, 2002, 06:24 PM	#2
FlyinGN Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2001 Location: South Jersey Posts: 402	looks like a plan Frank

September 15, 2002, 08:10 PM	#4
David Park Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2001 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 1,224	Soda, how can you call the last .22 festa "our most successful TFL gathering" when I wasn't there? This one's on the calendar. Maybe I'll have some new toys to bring.

September 16, 2002, 06:51 PM	#8
Dot_mdb Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 2001 Location: FL Posts: 191	I'll be there. Bill

September 17, 2002, 02:20 AM	#12
Jamie Young Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2000 Location: SE/PA Posts: 4,834	Sure you can! I'm bringing my AR! I have to get a hold of "Dead" and get him to bring all of his commie guns. __________________ Find out about Gun Shows and Training activities. www.TheRallyPoint.org Get your gun club involved!!

September 17, 2002, 08:16 AM	#13
rocko Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2001 Posts: 229	Sounds like fun - I hope I can make it. Water and Wings was recommended to me years ago (when it was still Twin S), but I never got a chance to check it out. Since becoming Water and Wings, I've heard that they've become alot less "evil black rifle" friendly. Your suggestion that everyone bring their black rifles along seemingly goes against that, but since this is more or less a special event, who knows... Any truth to this? I'm looking for a new "home", but don't want to pay membership fees only to deal with the "why do you need one of those" guys on a regular basis. I found references to their website at http://www.waterandwings.com , but have been unable to get there the past couple of days. Does anyone have a copy of their range rules, or could provide the cliffnotes version? Wondering specifically if these are allowed: - full auto (don't own any yet, but someday!) - rapid semi-auto fire - tracers (weather/dryness permitting) - reactive targets (no "junk" like appliances, computers, etc, but small stuff that's easy to clean up like milk jugs, tennis balls on string, bowling pins, etc.) Thanks.

September 17, 2002, 09:11 AM	#14
jmlv Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2001 Location: PA AMERICA STARTS HERE! Posts: 739	I have an old and decrepet Mosin-nagant rifle I can bring if I can make it. Intrested? 762x54, think I have some ball ammo around here somewhere too. How many shotgun shells do we need? (IE should I go to Wal-Mark and pick up a couple of {hundred round} bulk packs?) I asume you mean 22 pistols too? How about an old Mossberg model 44 US target rifle? sounds like fun Hope I can make it. __________________ JMLV NEW PA RESIDENT TFL ALUMNUS MOLON LABE!

September 17, 2002, 09:58 AM	#15
Jamie Young Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2000 Location: SE/PA Posts: 4,834	Rocko, Water and Wings had a lot of problems with some of the people that moved into a new development in the area. Water and Wings has been there for almost 40yrs and some people decided to buy houses near it and then say they didn't like the noise. They have had people go "horse-back riding" and kids riding "ATVs" on the rifle range while people were shooting. Someone also burned down the 500yds range because they were using incidiary rounds. YES there has been some turmoil there but they are ABSOLUTELY assault weapon friendly. Its only $100 for the rifle and pistol range membership. If you go 5 times you got your money's worth. I can bend some of the rules there because I'm in pretty good with the managment. We shoot sporting clays and paper targets. Sometimes you can "ask" to set up some other kinds of targets. They've let me from time to time. There is more room at the 200yd range and its a nice spot to get off the benches. JMLV- Bring it if you come(you better come). __________________ Find out about Gun Shows and Training activities. www.TheRallyPoint.org Get your gun club involved!! Last edited by Jamie Young; September 17, 2002 at 01:39 PM.

September 17, 2002, 12:21 PM	#16
MLC Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2001 Location: New Hope, PA Posts: 230	Wow what a coincidence I was going to post a request for a PA TFL shoot at W&W. I went a couple weekends ago and they were closed. Of course I am the dumba** that thought a rainy Labor day Sunday would be a great day to go, no crowds. I'm working on loads for my 6mm and 308 Remmy's to try out at the longer ranges. Got a couple thumbhole ak's, beater L1a1, faux M4, 1917 sporter that shoots great, Glock 20, HK Tac 45, P7 9mm. As well as the requisite marlin 60 & henry lever.

September 17, 2002, 12:56 PM	#17
rocko Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2001 Posts: 229	Soda, Sounds good. I just checked out Mapquest and its only 35 miles away - closer than I thought. I was also thinking of checking out Bucks County Fish & Game, but it seems like WW might be the better choice. Also somewhat off topic - any of you SE PA guys ever get together to purchase reloading components mail order, or know of any good place to buy them locally? I'm just getting started myself and can't see buying the quantity necessary to make the hazmat fees worth it for just myself. I can see buying powder by the pound from local gunshops isn't going to save me very much, and there only ever seems to be one guy selling powder at the local shows at only marginally better prices. Right now looking for some surplus and/or pulldown for .223 and .308... Rocko

September 17, 2002, 01:37 PM	#18
Jamie Young Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2000 Location: SE/PA Posts: 4,834	The big gun shows at Fort Washington (now defunct) and the Valley Forge shows have lots and lots of reloading components. I'm pretty boring when it comes to reloading. I get all of my stuff from www.wideners.com. Everything I reload for 45acp,223, and 308 are all IMI (Israeli Military Industries). Excellent bullets in bulk for plinking. Bring the M4 if you can. Let's make this a Gun show too! I think I'll bring everything I own just for the heck of it. __________________ Find out about Gun Shows and Training activities. www.TheRallyPoint.org Get your gun club involved!!

September 17, 2002, 02:39 PM	#19
jmlv Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2001 Location: PA AMERICA STARTS HERE! Posts: 739	You guys ever been to "Wicens Farm range? in furlong PA? (by doylstown) Its just 5 minutes from tanners on 263. Nice place. My buddies family ownes it and we have 2 day shoots there once a years or so from another site(sixgunner.com) (Next one is in april 2003) maybe we could have a TFL shoot there some time. sodapop, which is it you want the mossy or the mosin or both <VBG>? Also just how many shotgun shells should I bring? __________________ JMLV NEW PA RESIDENT TFL ALUMNUS MOLON LABE!

September 17, 2002, 03:10 PM	#20
Pappy John Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2001 Location: the lower Susquehanna Valley Posts: 848	I figure it'll be around 75 miles for me, but I'll make it if I can, Soda. Gotta see how your 10/22 shoots now.

September 17, 2002, 04:03 PM	#21
dinosaur Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 1999 Location: NE Pa. Posts: 1,245	Soda; I got your PM the other day. I had my 3rd heart attack a month ago but except for the allergies, I feel better than after the 2nd. My lady friend wants to learn how to shoot so I`ll see if she wants to come. She of the strong back. I`ll let you know. I`m thinking of getting the Rossi pump like Marcus` dad has. I do have the S&W Model 17 and the M1A with the Aimpoint red dot. Anyone in the Hazleton area? We`re having a car show Oct. 4th from 6-9 p.m. weather permitting at Sheetz which is a huge gas station on rte 309 and the Airport Road. I`ll know more as we get closer to the 6th.

September 17, 2002, 05:00 PM	#22
RAY WOODROW 3RD Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 1999 Location: Beverly, N.J. U.S.A. Posts: 784	Great...................................... Can't make it. I have a gun club meeting on Sunday. Sorry guys. Saturday would be much better..........Oh well................ Our meetings are the first Sunday of the month and I'm the Secretary. No Secretary, no properly recorded meeting. DUTY CALLS! __________________ __________________ "MOST talk the talk but can NEVER walk the walk." "The key to success in ANY battle is effective communications." From NJ? Check out "njcsd.com" Last edited by RAY WOODROW 3RD; September 17, 2002 at 06:19 PM.

September 17, 2002, 05:22 PM	#23
K80Geoff Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 1998 Location: NE Pennsylvania Posts: 3,639	Re 5 stand. OK Mr Pop! Let's not forget I was shooting a 20GA As to range rules. Full auto and tracers are not allowed. The tracers because some dufus set the 500 yd berm on fire! As to reactive targets, if you mean explosive targets probably not. Most ranges will not allow them. They are Black Rifle friendly, I bring mine from New York because this is the only place I can shoot them without being hasseled. Last weekend the guy shooting blackpowder had a target frame set up at 50 yds on the 100 yard range. Perhaps we could get a reliable frame and use the 200 yd range to properly zero the AR's at 25 meters? Anybody have a portable target frame? I have seen them in magazines, may get one myself. __________________ I am no longer a member of this forum. Bye!

September 17, 2002, 05:46 PM	#24
9mmMike Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2000 Location: SE PA Posts: 1,049	Well that didn't take too long. I will be in Miami so I'm out. Rats. Things will be calming down (as far as weekends go) by the middle of October though. I'll have to meet you and Geoff and ? for a mini-TFL shoot in Oct or Nov or Dec.... I am gonna try to cruise up to FC to bust some clays this Saturday though. Geoff, was that 20 gauge loaded with slugs too? Mike __________________ "Freedom is not free" Visit TheRallyPoint.org TheRallyPoint at LRGC- Saturday August 26th IF YOU LIVE IN PA AND DID NOT VOTE, YOU DESERVE TO LOSE YOUR GUNS!