Big thumbs down for Black Hole Weaponry customer service....

FrankenMauser · July 31, 2014, 05:16 PM

On April 21st (2014) I called Black Hole Weaponry to see what the estimated delivery time would be on a fairly plain 6x45mm barrel for an AR build.
They quoted me 6 weeks - with delivery the first week of June, because the order could piggy-back on a large commercial order for the same thing. (The typical delivery time quoted is 10-12 weeks.)
I placed the order online, before the call was over, and began the long, anxious wait.... (Like a little kid counting the days until Christmas.

)

The first week of June came and went, with no barrel, and no update to order status.
The second week of June came and went, with no barrel, and no update to order status.
On June 22nd, I called to see what was going on. After almost 35 minutes of getting bounced around on hold, having the phone system randomly transfer the call, and lots of humming and hawing by the people at BHW, they finally told me that they had no record of the order. I could pull up the order on their website, and they sure did withdraw the funds from my checking account (on Apr 22); but they claimed to have no barrel and no record.

So, they promised that the order would be filled, and that I would have the barrel in my hands by July 11th (35 days late).

On July 7th (the 8 week mark), I called, just to see if the barrel was actually shipping. Sadly, my expectations were met, when I was told that they couldn't find the barrel. They assumed that it was shipped out for CeraKote, but could not verify.
They promised that the barrel would be shipped within 3-5 days (based on the CeraKote batch's expected return date).

Well, here we are 24 days later (50 days past promised delivery).... with no barrel.
I called.
They spent 18 minutes looking for the order.
The phone system played its games again - dropping calls, randomly transferring, then hanging up on me and calling me back with voicemail prompts.

They finally called me back and said the barrel was out for CeraKote.
I reminded them about the history of this order and that it was supposed to have been out for CeraKote a month ago, and they immediately blamed their perpetually-backlogged CeraKoter for the delay.
They said they'd ship the barrel as soon as it was returned to the shop.
Initially, the customer service person I talked to said I should see it by August 8th. But after I (calmly) voiced some more of my frustration with the situation, they increased that estimate to most likely not even shipping until at least August 18th.

Rant:
When you promise a delivery date, you deliver. A rough time frame is one thing, but you don't make promises that you can't keep.
If there's an unexpected delay .... let the customer know!
If there's a constant problem with a contractor delaying your products, go to a different contractor!
/end Rant

So, the barrel promised in 6 weeks will now, most likely, not arrive until around the 18 week mark (if it actually did go to CeraKote).

There's nothing like missing your delivery date by 200%....

At this point, their customer service has me so irritated that, even having never seen or touched the barrel (let alone tested it), it's going to have to launch flaming unicorns that fart tinsel and belch care bears, in order to impress me enough to ever do business with them again.

Palmetto-Pride · July 31, 2014, 08:16 PM

You think that's bad try ordering a proprietary gas tub from Smith & Wesson for a M&P10........after 9 weeks many phone calls and a pretty much "the factory can't spare any at this time so you will have to wait as long as it takes too bad" answer I get every time I call. Unbelievable!

Mobuck · July 31, 2014, 10:04 PM

Where is this business located?

JimmyR · July 31, 2014, 11:05 PM

Why am I not surprised at the idea of an order being lost at "Black Hole" weaponry...

FrankenMauser · August 1, 2014, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Where is this business located?

St Helens, Oregon: Black Hole Weaponry: Contact Us

tirod · August 1, 2014, 09:07 AM

It's the current nature of the logistics chain, and it's made worse by the fragmentation in the market.

If Cerakote has a supplier one week behind on delivery to them - a truck overturns on the road in shipment, or they have a production problem that slows manufacture, they jam the guys doing the work. If the barrel maker simply can't get steel, or the machinery goes down and one critical part is backordered, they have a delay.

Now, how could these guys or there suppliers not have basic parts or ingredients? Because EVERYONE in American manufacturing is under the Just In Time system, and having excess inventory is highly taxed by Congress. So, to protect profits, nobody is filling their warehouse. In fact, a lot of new production facilitiies don't even build warehouses. They ship everything that is released from production within literally hours if at all possible.

One little hiccup in the chain then distorts the delay at every level, the backlog of work piles up, and Production is actually happy. That's the guy on the actual floor - he's got job security. If there wasn't a backlog, he'd be laid off as unnecessary, like the SIG plant workers who were hired over the last 16 months. Sales fell off, no job.

The retailer is just as much the victim as the customer, and actually has even less control. Plus, because of the last two years of overinflated purchasing, some came to the conclusion that being entirely up front that there would be delays meant losing orders left and right. Which then caused them to lose their place in line, or get their allocation reduced for future orders. Better to have lots of orders, which is how Sales makes their bonus money . . . think VA scandal.

It doesn't help that the barrel is in 6x45, which is a pretty small part of the market and fairly obscure. There aren't tens of thousands of those barrels rolling off the lines. That only adds to the issues that cause delays. And the timing of the order - after SHOT - put it right in the middle of the large scale buys from the real movers and shakers, gun stores. They placed their orders at the same time and that is what gets the makers full attention - lots of 1,000 bump an order of 1. Even bundled with an order of X number of other like barrels, it's not mainstream nor a big money maker. It's custom/wildcat.

So, what looks like a simple order for seemingly simple part is actually a very odd and low profit exercise for an unusual out of the market part, placed at the perfect storm of production in a punitive environment that doesn't allow any backstock at all. Much less Sales wanting you to just drop the order, which would leave them with a rare barrel they literally have little demand for. Exactly the sort of thing they would likely have to mark down on a website back page to dump for cost.

It's a tough row to hoe in American business these days, 72% go under in the first ten years. There will always be delays in this market now, but the expectations of the American consumer are higher than ever.

Madcap_Magician · August 1, 2014, 09:08 AM

Gosh, sounds like your order went into a black hole.

Amirite? Yuck yuck yuck

FrankenMauser · August 6, 2014, 12:08 PM

Update:

BHW lit a fired under somebody's backside and got my barrel shipped Aug 1st.

Today, they contacted me to make sure I had received it, and to see if there were any other issues that needed to be addressed.

The customer service rep also shared with me that the company's employees had been losing enough time to customer service issues, that she was hired a month ago, specifically to try to get order issues and company reputation turned around and back on track.

Most people here on TFL seem to have never heard of BHW, even though it seems to be well known on other forums. But if you have issues or inquiries about existing orders (not for sales or technical support), you can call their new CSR directly:
Michelle
503-410-5583 extension 202.

They're supposed to make fantastic barrels (this is my first from BHW). If the new CSR can get customer service and organization handled, maybe they'll actually be respectable again...

Sevens · August 6, 2014, 12:22 PM

I just now read your OP on the subject and I'm with you...

Anything can happen in the production or finishing chain and the world is full of possible pitfalls. All of the pain and suffering can be mitigated (A LOT!), at least in my opinion, if the manufacturer/seller can at least be counted on to know what is going on and relay that to the end-buyer, hopefully proactively... but at the very least, re-actively.

It sounds like that's where their biggest problem lies and the latest update seems to show a glimmer of hope that they KNOW it and may address it.

Quote:

At this point, their customer service has me so irritated that, even having never seen or touched the barrel (let alone tested it), it's going to have to launch flaming unicorns that fart tinsel and belch care bears, in order to impress me enough to ever do business with them again.

My post actually has nothing worthy to offer, but there's no way I was going to let the above text sit idly by without being quoted and bolded to be sure that it gets enjoyed by all!

tahunua001 · August 7, 2014, 09:53 AM

sounds nearly identical to an issue I had ordering a product from special interest arms. I was promised a shipping date and then after months of excuses they just stopped responding to my queries. I posted a few angry threads on forums and within 3 hours he was sending me angry emails accusing me of slander and that my package would have shipped soon with an upgraded part but since I was so upset he would ship it within 24 hours minus the upgrade.

got the package about 2 weeks later and the non upgraded part broke during install, the guy then gave me a catalog code for the part from a third party fabricator who only takes orders in bulk so the one part I needed would have several hundred replacements...

some people are just not not worth dealing with. thanks for the heads up. I was looking at BHW 6x45 barrels recently, now I'll be sure to stay away.

Art Eatman · August 7, 2014, 10:15 AM

tahunua001, your post sounds as though you only read Post #1 but skipped Post #8.

tahunua001 · August 7, 2014, 10:30 AM

I did, ADHD is hitting hard this morning.

FrankenMauser · August 7, 2014, 10:35 AM

Quote:

I did, ADHD is hitting hard this morning.

It happens.

I've been dealing with some serious back pain lately, and haven't been able to get any ammo loaded for testing.

But, once I break in and test the barrel, I do plan on sharing the results.

tirod · August 8, 2014, 11:10 AM

Quote:

it's going to have to launch flaming unicorns that fart tinsel and belch care bears,

Pics or it didn't happen!

Art Eatman · August 8, 2014, 11:18 AM

Since FM's problem seems to have been solved...

July 31, 2014, 08:16 PM	#2
Palmetto-Pride Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2009 Location: Charleston, SC Posts: 2,071	You think that's bad try ordering a proprietary gas tub from Smith & Wesson for a M&P10........after 9 weeks many phone calls and a pretty much "the factory can't spare any at this time so you will have to wait as long as it takes too bad" answer I get every time I call. Unbelievable! __________________ “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.” -Margaret Thatcher-

August 7, 2014, 09:53 AM	#10
tahunua001 Senior Member Join Date: July 21, 2011 Location: Idaho Posts: 7,839	sounds nearly identical to an issue I had ordering a product from special interest arms. I was promised a shipping date and then after months of excuses they just stopped responding to my queries. I posted a few angry threads on forums and within 3 hours he was sending me angry emails accusing me of slander and that my package would have shipped soon with an upgraded part but since I was so upset he would ship it within 24 hours minus the upgrade. got the package about 2 weeks later and the non upgraded part broke during install, the guy then gave me a catalog code for the part from a third party fabricator who only takes orders in bulk so the one part I needed would have several hundred replacements... some people are just not not worth dealing with. thanks for the heads up. I was looking at BHW 6x45 barrels recently, now I'll be sure to stay away. __________________ ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar. I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin

August 7, 2014, 10:30 AM	#12
tahunua001 Senior Member Join Date: July 21, 2011 Location: Idaho Posts: 7,839	I did, ADHD is hitting hard this morning. __________________ ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar. I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin

July 31, 2014, 05:16 PM	#1
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	Big thumbs down for Black Hole Weaponry customer service.... On April 21st (2014) I called Black Hole Weaponry to see what the estimated delivery time would be on a fairly plain 6x45mm barrel for an AR build. They quoted me 6 weeks - with delivery the first week of June, because the order could piggy-back on a large commercial order for the same thing. (The typical delivery time quoted is 10-12 weeks.) I placed the order online, before the call was over, and began the long, anxious wait.... (Like a little kid counting the days until Christmas. ) The first week of June came and went, with no barrel, and no update to order status. The second week of June came and went, with no barrel, and no update to order status. On June 22nd, I called to see what was going on. After almost 35 minutes of getting bounced around on hold, having the phone system randomly transfer the call, and lots of humming and hawing by the people at BHW, they finally told me that they had no record of the order. I could pull up the order on their website, and they sure did withdraw the funds from my checking account (on Apr 22); but they claimed to have no barrel and no record. So, they promised that the order would be filled, and that I would have the barrel in my hands by July 11th (35 days late). On July 7th (the 8 week mark), I called, just to see if the barrel was actually shipping. Sadly, my expectations were met, when I was told that they couldn't find the barrel. They assumed that it was shipped out for CeraKote, but could not verify. They promised that the barrel would be shipped within 3-5 days (based on the CeraKote batch's expected return date). Well, here we are 24 days later (50 days past promised delivery).... with no barrel. I called. They spent 18 minutes looking for the order. The phone system played its games again - dropping calls, randomly transferring, then hanging up on me and calling me back with voicemail prompts. They finally called me back and said the barrel was out for CeraKote. I reminded them about the history of this order and that it was supposed to have been out for CeraKote a month ago, and they immediately blamed their perpetually-backlogged CeraKoter for the delay. They said they'd ship the barrel as soon as it was returned to the shop. Initially, the customer service person I talked to said I should see it by August 8th. But after I (calmly) voiced some more of my frustration with the situation, they increased that estimate to most likely not even shipping until at least August 18th. Rant: When you promise a delivery date, you deliver. A rough time frame is one thing, but you don't make promises that you can't keep. If there's an unexpected delay .... let the customer know! If there's a constant problem with a contractor delaying your products, go to a different contractor! /end Rant So, the barrel promised in 6 weeks will now, most likely, not arrive until around the 18 week mark (if it actually did go to CeraKote). There's nothing like missing your delivery date by 200%.... At this point, their customer service has me so irritated that, even having never seen or touched the barrel (let alone tested it), it's going to have to launch flaming unicorns that fart tinsel and belch care bears, in order to impress me enough to ever do business with them again. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

July 31, 2014, 10:04 PM	#3
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	Where is this business located?

August 1, 2014, 09:07 AM	#6
tirod Junior member Join Date: January 21, 2009 Posts: 1,672	It's the current nature of the logistics chain, and it's made worse by the fragmentation in the market. If Cerakote has a supplier one week behind on delivery to them - a truck overturns on the road in shipment, or they have a production problem that slows manufacture, they jam the guys doing the work. If the barrel maker simply can't get steel, or the machinery goes down and one critical part is backordered, they have a delay. Now, how could these guys or there suppliers not have basic parts or ingredients? Because EVERYONE in American manufacturing is under the Just In Time system, and having excess inventory is highly taxed by Congress. So, to protect profits, nobody is filling their warehouse. In fact, a lot of new production facilitiies don't even build warehouses. They ship everything that is released from production within literally hours if at all possible. One little hiccup in the chain then distorts the delay at every level, the backlog of work piles up, and Production is actually happy. That's the guy on the actual floor - he's got job security. If there wasn't a backlog, he'd be laid off as unnecessary, like the SIG plant workers who were hired over the last 16 months. Sales fell off, no job. The retailer is just as much the victim as the customer, and actually has even less control. Plus, because of the last two years of overinflated purchasing, some came to the conclusion that being entirely up front that there would be delays meant losing orders left and right. Which then caused them to lose their place in line, or get their allocation reduced for future orders. Better to have lots of orders, which is how Sales makes their bonus money . . . think VA scandal. It doesn't help that the barrel is in 6x45, which is a pretty small part of the market and fairly obscure. There aren't tens of thousands of those barrels rolling off the lines. That only adds to the issues that cause delays. And the timing of the order - after SHOT - put it right in the middle of the large scale buys from the real movers and shakers, gun stores. They placed their orders at the same time and that is what gets the makers full attention - lots of 1,000 bump an order of 1. Even bundled with an order of X number of other like barrels, it's not mainstream nor a big money maker. It's custom/wildcat. So, what looks like a simple order for seemingly simple part is actually a very odd and low profit exercise for an unusual out of the market part, placed at the perfect storm of production in a punitive environment that doesn't allow any backstock at all. Much less Sales wanting you to just drop the order, which would leave them with a rare barrel they literally have little demand for. Exactly the sort of thing they would likely have to mark down on a website back page to dump for cost. It's a tough row to hoe in American business these days, 72% go under in the first ten years. There will always be delays in this market now, but the expectations of the American consumer are higher than ever.

August 1, 2014, 09:08 AM	#7
Madcap_Magician Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2009 Location: MN Posts: 668	Gosh, sounds like your order went into a black hole. Amirite? Yuck yuck yuck

August 6, 2014, 12:08 PM	#8
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	Update: BHW lit a fired under somebody's backside and got my barrel shipped Aug 1st. Today, they contacted me to make sure I had received it, and to see if there were any other issues that needed to be addressed. The customer service rep also shared with me that the company's employees had been losing enough time to customer service issues, that she was hired a month ago, specifically to try to get order issues and company reputation turned around and back on track. Most people here on TFL seem to have never heard of BHW, even though it seems to be well known on other forums. But if you have issues or inquiries about existing orders (not for sales or technical support), you can call their new CSR directly: Michelle 503-410-5583 extension 202. They're supposed to make fantastic barrels (this is my first from BHW). If the new CSR can get customer service and organization handled, maybe they'll actually be respectable again... __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

August 7, 2014, 10:15 AM	#11
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	tahunua001, your post sounds as though you only read Post #1 but skipped Post #8.

August 8, 2014, 11:18 AM	#15
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Since FM's problem seems to have been solved...