Chambering a round directly into the chamber

CSKS · May 19, 2002, 07:09 PM

Why is it that for SGs, it's common for the 1st round to be loaded directly into the chamber (for semi-autos) before the bolt is closed? I mean...how's the extractor different than semi-auto handguns where such a habit will chip the extractor in short order?
While we are at it, how does the Benelli inertia system compares to the Beretta's gas system in terms of feeding reliability for light target loads?

Clemson · May 20, 2002, 09:39 AM

What you are seeing on the range is a bit deceptive. It is not really common to load the first round directly into the chamber. It IS common to just throw the round into the ejection port and let it fall onto the cartridge lifter. Then the round is chambered when the bolt is released just exactly like it would be if it were fed from the magazine. As to why it is done, the bolt is already locked back, so the shooter doesn't have to operate the bolt against a strong spring to jack a round into the chamber.

CSKS · May 20, 2002, 02:35 PM

Thank you. I can see that throwing a round into the ejection port is like simulating the feed as if it's magazine fed for semi SGs. What I'm trying to understand is whether the extractor still need to hook around the rim of the round from behind duirng chambering, which is the big no-no for handguns.

hitnthexring · May 20, 2002, 02:44 PM

I have a Benelli M1 Combat. It functions perfectly with standard buckshot loads, but not with light target loads because it was only designed for self defense. It does function with the Federal Tactical Reduced Recoil loads. The other Benelli Sport shotguns have a different recoil spring that is made to function with light target loads for skeet or trap. The inertia system is very reliable & also amazingly clean. After firing 220 rounds, I disassembled the bolt on my Benelli & it was absolutely CLEAN as if it were unfired! The firing residue all goes through the barrel, not through a gas system with many parts. All Benellis are extremely reliable. They are well worth the high price, too.

maze51 · May 21, 2002, 10:13 AM

Hitnthexring is absolutely right. I have a Benelli Super Black Eagle and it is flawless in operation, and is easier to pack around than a gas operated system from a weight factor.

Absolutely worth the money...

SDC · May 21, 2002, 02:44 PM

The big difference between doing this with a handgun and doing this with a shotgun is that the extractor on a shotgun is designed with a lot more movement and HAS to be able to snap around the rim in order to work properly. In a handgun, the rounds are designed to slip up behind the extractor along the breechface, and should never have to snap around the rim of a chambered cartridge. In fact, it's easy to chip or even snap your extractor OFF if you load a pistol this way.

CSKS · May 21, 2002, 05:10 PM

Good to hear about the good things about the Benellis, it's definitely on my wish-list.
As for the extractors, I don't doubt that it's in their design to snap around the rim from behind. My guess is that it's easier to do that for SGs because the shotshell diameter is much bigger than that of a handgun brass and thus the extractor does not have to be "pried out" that much to engage the shotshell from behind, relatively speaking.

kobun · May 21, 2002, 06:43 PM

The Benelli inertia system is made so that the gun has to recoil back a little for the bolt to unlock.
If you hold a Benelli too tight, it won't cycle.
Even those that have a pistol grip will cycle the lightest loads if you hold ut real loose. The M1 fields I've got experiense with works with the 24 gram (trap loads) shells, even though the internals is exactly the same as the M1 Tacticals. My own Benelli won't, because with a pistol grip. I hold the gun harder, and it doesn't recoil back enough with light loads.
This is the reason for the M4. It is gas opperated so it isn't subjected to the recoil issue that has been a liability when hanging all kinds of stuff on the M1. Also, I guess a 210 lbs marine can hold onto a gun much harder than I can.

As for dropping a round in the chamber on a handgun, I thought that was a no-no only on guns with internal extractors (1911).

May 19, 2002, 07:09 PM	#1
CSKS Member Join Date: August 6, 2001 Posts: 48	Chambering a round directly into the chamber Why is it that for SGs, it's common for the 1st round to be loaded directly into the chamber (for semi-autos) before the bolt is closed? I mean...how's the extractor different than semi-auto handguns where such a habit will chip the extractor in short order? While we are at it, how does the Benelli inertia system compares to the Beretta's gas system in terms of feeding reliability for light target loads?

May 20, 2002, 09:39 AM	#2
Clemson Senior Member Join Date: March 9, 2001 Location: Greenwood, SC Posts: 875	What you are seeing on the range is a bit deceptive. It is not really common to load the first round directly into the chamber. It IS common to just throw the round into the ejection port and let it fall onto the cartridge lifter. Then the round is chambered when the bolt is released just exactly like it would be if it were fed from the magazine. As to why it is done, the bolt is already locked back, so the shooter doesn't have to operate the bolt against a strong spring to jack a round into the chamber. __________________ NRA Endowment Member, NRA Certified Instructor CWP Holder US Army veteran Gunsmith www.boltandbarrel.com

May 21, 2002, 02:44 PM	#6
SDC Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2001 Location: People's Republic of Kanada Posts: 1,652	The big difference between doing this with a handgun and doing this with a shotgun is that the extractor on a shotgun is designed with a lot more movement and HAS to be able to snap around the rim in order to work properly. In a handgun, the rounds are designed to slip up behind the extractor along the breechface, and should never have to snap around the rim of a chambered cartridge. In fact, it's easy to chip or even snap your extractor OFF if you load a pistol this way. __________________ Gun control in Canada: making the streets safer for rapists, muggers, and other violent criminals since 1936.

May 21, 2002, 06:43 PM	#8
kobun Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2002 Location: On top of a big pile of ammo Posts: 148	The Benelli inertia system is made so that the gun has to recoil back a little for the bolt to unlock. If you hold a Benelli too tight, it won't cycle. Even those that have a pistol grip will cycle the lightest loads if you hold ut real loose. The M1 fields I've got experiense with works with the 24 gram (trap loads) shells, even though the internals is exactly the same as the M1 Tacticals. My own Benelli won't, because with a pistol grip. I hold the gun harder, and it doesn't recoil back enough with light loads. This is the reason for the M4. It is gas opperated so it isn't subjected to the recoil issue that has been a liability when hanging all kinds of stuff on the M1. Also, I guess a 210 lbs marine can hold onto a gun much harder than I can. As for dropping a round in the chamber on a handgun, I thought that was a no-no only on guns with internal extractors (1911). __________________ "A broken heart heals faster than two broken knee-caps"

May 20, 2002, 02:35 PM	#3
CSKS Member Join Date: August 6, 2001 Posts: 48	Thank you. I can see that throwing a round into the ejection port is like simulating the feed as if it's magazine fed for semi SGs. What I'm trying to understand is whether the extractor still need to hook around the rim of the round from behind duirng chambering, which is the big no-no for handguns.

May 20, 2002, 02:44 PM	#4
hitnthexring Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2002 Posts: 223	I have a Benelli M1 Combat. It functions perfectly with standard buckshot loads, but not with light target loads because it was only designed for self defense. It does function with the Federal Tactical Reduced Recoil loads. The other Benelli Sport shotguns have a different recoil spring that is made to function with light target loads for skeet or trap. The inertia system is very reliable & also amazingly clean. After firing 220 rounds, I disassembled the bolt on my Benelli & it was absolutely CLEAN as if it were unfired! The firing residue all goes through the barrel, not through a gas system with many parts. All Benellis are extremely reliable. They are well worth the high price, too.

May 21, 2002, 10:13 AM	#5
maze51 Member Join Date: March 3, 2002 Location: sacramento Posts: 74	Hitnthexring is absolutely right. I have a Benelli Super Black Eagle and it is flawless in operation, and is easier to pack around than a gas operated system from a weight factor. Absolutely worth the money...

May 21, 2002, 05:10 PM	#7
CSKS Member Join Date: August 6, 2001 Posts: 48	Good to hear about the good things about the Benellis, it's definitely on my wish-list. As for the extractors, I don't doubt that it's in their design to snap around the rim from behind. My guess is that it's easier to do that for SGs because the shotshell diameter is much bigger than that of a handgun brass and thus the extractor does not have to be "pried out" that much to engage the shotshell from behind, relatively speaking.