Grouping up...a bad thing?

johnelmore · January 16, 2016, 09:19 AM

When something bad happens in the news I always see people grouping up. I was in the US Army, a heavy equipment operator, and we were always taught the value of space. If you have a group of people or a group of trucks or equipment its best to put space between everything so it wont be taken out so easily. BTW, a 2000 lb aerial bomb will take out most everything in a 400 yard radius. Not that I will keep driving the truck if one falls down somewhere. It will give me enough time to exit the truck and find a ditch to hide in hoping for survival.

Lets say you have an active shooter. What sense does it make fleeing as a group or grouping up? IMHO its best to flee in different directions as individuals. Someone will get hit, but it wont be everyone.

Thoughts?

2damnold4this · January 16, 2016, 09:38 AM

I do think people have an ingrained tendency to bunch up in stressful situations. It could be a disadvantage in a shooting.

The Aurora theater shooter used the limited exits to channel victims into groups. It seems that the Newtown shooter also used limited exits to corral his victims. I'm not sure what folks in these bad situations could have done but people in open areas might have more options.

reddog81 · January 16, 2016, 10:40 AM

Well I've never heard of an active shooter with a 2000 lbs aerial bomb so I'm not sure a direct comparison applies. It's very unlikely a bullet is going to hit more than 1 person.

Most active shooter situations happen in buildings or at least urban environments. Buildings have a limited number of exits so it only makes sense they would all be coming out of the same door. Even on a street there are a limited number of directions a person can go.

A group of people probably does make it easier for a shooter to "spray and pray" because even if you miss your intended target someone else might get hit, but most people in that scenario aren't thinking with 100% clarity and obviously they are under extreme stress and maybe looking for the feeling of safety a group provides.

DMK · January 16, 2016, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Well I've never heard of an active shooter with a 2000 lbs aerial bomb so I'm not sure a direct comparison applies.

How about an improvides explosive device like used in Boston? Not 2klb, but nonetheless. How about a van full of fertilizer and diesel like used in Oaklahoma City?

Quote:

I do think people have an ingrained tendency to bunch up in stressful situations. It could be a disadvantage in a shooting.

Our natural instinct goes to safety in numbers. When we had cougars and bears chasing us, it would grab one for a meal and be pretty much done. In hand to hand combat, it better to have more hands on your side.

However, the OP raises a good point. It goes against instinct, but bunching up is very bad in a modern ambush where guns and explosives are used.

g.willikers · January 16, 2016, 11:32 AM

Does the word Lemming come to mind?

kilimanjaro · January 16, 2016, 12:22 PM

It's a natural instinct for people to be near others. Drivers pack up on the freeway, walkers on the sidewalk, one end of the table, etc., etc. Park your car in an empty lot before most folks show up, come back and your car is surrounded by others even though you parked in an inconvenient spot.

If you can plan on your escape, it's going to be best not to bunch up. Without a plan, all you can do is escape and take your chances with the others.

With modern terrorists, though, once you've gotten out of one danger area, they may have explosives arranged to get groups of survivors. Avoid bunching up once you've gotten out of the first scrape. Tell others to do the same.

T. O'Heir · January 16, 2016, 02:07 PM

"...if one falls down somewhere..." You'll never know if you're close to where it lands. No whistling bomb falls any more, as I recall. IED's and exploding vans don't tend to announce themselves either.
"...Lets say you have an active shooter..." Stay in the truck. Possibly use said truck to put a quick end to your active shooter's ideas. A terr with an AK cannot stop even a pick up truck even by shooting the driver.

**Frank Ettin** · January 16, 2016, 02:18 PM

Out of scope -- we're interested in the ordinary person in the everyday world

January 16, 2016, 09:19 AM	#1
johnelmore Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2013 Posts: 456	Grouping up...a bad thing? When something bad happens in the news I always see people grouping up. I was in the US Army, a heavy equipment operator, and we were always taught the value of space. If you have a group of people or a group of trucks or equipment its best to put space between everything so it wont be taken out so easily. BTW, a 2000 lb aerial bomb will take out most everything in a 400 yard radius. Not that I will keep driving the truck if one falls down somewhere. It will give me enough time to exit the truck and find a ditch to hide in hoping for survival. Lets say you have an active shooter. What sense does it make fleeing as a group or grouping up? IMHO its best to flee in different directions as individuals. Someone will get hit, but it wont be everyone. Thoughts?

January 16, 2016, 11:32 AM	#5
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Does the word Lemming come to mind? __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

January 16, 2016, 02:07 PM	#7
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...if one falls down somewhere..." You'll never know if you're close to where it lands. No whistling bomb falls any more, as I recall. IED's and exploding vans don't tend to announce themselves either. "...Lets say you have an active shooter..." Stay in the truck. Possibly use said truck to put a quick end to your active shooter's ideas. A terr with an AK cannot stop even a pick up truck even by shooting the driver. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

January 16, 2016, 02:18 PM	#8
Frank Ettin Staff Join Date: November 23, 2005 Location: California - San Francisco Posts: 9,471	Out of scope -- we're interested in the ordinary person in the everyday world __________________ "It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper

January 16, 2016, 09:38 AM	#2
2damnold4this Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2009 Location: Athens, Georgia Posts: 2,526	I do think people have an ingrained tendency to bunch up in stressful situations. It could be a disadvantage in a shooting. The Aurora theater shooter used the limited exits to channel victims into groups. It seems that the Newtown shooter also used limited exits to corral his victims. I'm not sure what folks in these bad situations could have done but people in open areas might have more options.

January 16, 2016, 10:40 AM	#3
reddog81 Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 2014 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,634	Well I've never heard of an active shooter with a 2000 lbs aerial bomb so I'm not sure a direct comparison applies. It's very unlikely a bullet is going to hit more than 1 person. Most active shooter situations happen in buildings or at least urban environments. Buildings have a limited number of exits so it only makes sense they would all be coming out of the same door. Even on a street there are a limited number of directions a person can go. A group of people probably does make it easier for a shooter to "spray and pray" because even if you miss your intended target someone else might get hit, but most people in that scenario aren't thinking with 100% clarity and obviously they are under extreme stress and maybe looking for the feeling of safety a group provides.

January 16, 2016, 12:22 PM	#6
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	It's a natural instinct for people to be near others. Drivers pack up on the freeway, walkers on the sidewalk, one end of the table, etc., etc. Park your car in an empty lot before most folks show up, come back and your car is surrounded by others even though you parked in an inconvenient spot. If you can plan on your escape, it's going to be best not to bunch up. Without a plan, all you can do is escape and take your chances with the others. With modern terrorists, though, once you've gotten out of one danger area, they may have explosives arranged to get groups of survivors. Avoid bunching up once you've gotten out of the first scrape. Tell others to do the same.