Forgive me if these have been asked...

[govmule84]

...but I am looking to begin reloading. One of the guys I work with has all the fancy doodads and he's being really negative about the whole process, and says it's a giant waste of money. I have searched the threads, but perhaps I am searching wrong, 'cause I can't seem to find an answer to three of my questions, and the guy at work either doesn't know, or doesn't care. (He also says all metal pistols need to be built to withstand triple-loaded charges, and he tests this from time to time, which sounds absolutely 1. stupidly insane and 2. flat-out wrong. He keeps dogging me on this Lee Classic kit I have been eyeballing - I know it doesn't have all the bells and whistles, but he's spent three grand on his setup, and he hates to load ammo. I don't want that to happen to me.

For starts, I don't want to reload yet. I just want to load. I want to get a feel for it, and see if I like it first. I am going to spring for the Lee classic kits, as I said, I think...the little hammer-jobs. I'll be loading .357 and .45 at first, with a possibility of 9mm if I get to really enjoying it. I'm as cheap as they come, I'm still in college, and I have a kid. I've spent the last three months splitting wood. I am as close to broke as possible, but I want to go shoot. I'm not buying a press yet - I'll never, ever be able to swing that, financially. Thus, the hammer-whacker looks to be the best choice for me right now.

I ain't buying a scale yet, either - I understand that the dipper is "good enough" for now, and like I said...I am trying my hand at this. I am interested in this mostly for a self-reliance issue. I can't stand paying someone for something I can make myself. I fix my own vehicles, I can my own food, and frankly, I want to try this, but cheaply. I don't mean to be hard-headed, and I know I need to be safe doing this, but it seems that the Lee kit covers the necessities, and few to none of the amenities. I know a single stage press is the general consensus, but please bear with me.

I haven't bought a reloading manual yet - I am making up my wishlist on Midway right now. I have a plastic mallet in my toolbox already.


I am going to get the Lee kit, a manual, some boxes to hold my newly-made ammo, brass and ...

...and...

And now I am confused. Because I don't yet have a manual, I don't really know A) how to select which powder I want, B) how to select which bullet I want (weight, really...I know what style and material bullets I like)...and...
my last question is, C) is there a place to get smaller amounts of primers? Midway sells them in 500 and thousand counts, I think, and that's a significant cost - like a hundred bones for the small batch.

So, if anyone can give me A, B, or C, I'd be grateful. I'm curious...but my wallet, she's a-thin.

-L.

EDIT: Oh yah - Um...which size primers do those calibers take? Midway has them sorted in a way I don't much understand in the catalog. Something about small pistol and large pistol, and a separate category for magnum? DO I need to just buy the manual first, and the rest of the stuff later?

[scsov509]

Well, this forum is a great place to start as far as getting information, and I'd encourage you to do a fair amount of research first since it sounds like 1) you are completely new to this, and 2) your aforementioned friend has already given you some bad information.

As far as Lee equipment goes, Richard Lee has probably gotten more people started in reloading than most of the other companies combined. So, if you're on a budget and looking to start exploring reloading as a hobby, then Lee is definitely a great place to start. I'm not sure what you're talking about purchasing at this point in time, and your description makes it a little vague as to what you have been looking at already. But basically, to start reloading you're going to need the following equipment:

1. A reloading press
2. A reloading manual (for data, but also for instructions)
3. A scale (not that you can't use dippers if you want, but you still must have a scale to verify charge weights)
4. A priming system of some sort
5. A set of calipers to measure cartridge length
6. A set of dies for each caliber you intend to load

The least expensive route to go is probably going to be one of the Lee kits that comes with most of this stuff already packaged, so that all you have to order is a kit and a set of dies to get started. You should be able to get most of what you need for around $130 or so shipped to your door, and I'd recommend you look at this kit or this one as a starting point. I prefer the later of the two because I like the Auto Prime system over the Safety Prime setup. If you go this route, then Modern Reloading is a great book to read that will help you get started on the process of reloading.

At the end of the day, I guess I'd encourage you to consider doing some more research before you take the plunge. Reloading is the sort of thing where you want to do your homework before you start trying to turn out ammunition. Do some reading and learn as much as you can about how this process works so that when you get to reloading it will be both safe and enjoyable. Modern Reloading is a great place to start, and you might also take a look at The ABC's of Reloading as well.

[orionengnr]

One of the guys I work with has all the fancy doodads and he's being really negative about the whole process, and says it's a giant waste of money.

His credibility is strained right off the bat. Yes, it is enjoyable, but if it were not advantageous from a financial perspective, who would do it?

(He also says all metal pistols need to be built to withstand triple-loaded charges, and he tests this from time to time, which sounds absolutely 1. stupidly insane and 2. flat-out wrong.

Yep, your instincts are correct, and his credibility is in shambles at this point. I sure wouldn't go shooting with him.

he's spent three grand on his setup, and he hates to load ammo

Personally, I don't see how this is possible. The top-of the line Dillon costs ~$975, and I think that would be for someone who loads thousands of rounds per week, probably to sell. I've seen a used Dillon SDB progressive for $225 you can get a used single-stage started for way less than $100.

I ain't buying a scale yet, either

I bought a small (fit in your pocket) digital scale from Midway for about $20, and is accurate as it can be.

I haven't bought a reloading manual yet

Don't need a new one, there are plenty of used ones out there (check FleaBay, gun shows, etc). If you're reloading 45 acp and 9mm, there are plenty of good loads in those earlier manuals. My two manuals are dated 1979 and 1982. If I were shooting .40 or .357 Sig, I'd look for a newer manual.
Another option is to search the powder manufacturers' sites. Several of them have extensive loading data available online, free of charge.

And now I am confused. Because I don't yet have a manual, I don't really know A) how to select which powder I want, B) how to select which bullet I want (weight, really...I know what style and material bullets I like)...and...my last question is, C) is there a place to get smaller amounts of primers.

Okay:
A)...see above.
B) check with some of the online bullet sellers. If you want lead, there are plenty of online sellers who will deliver. Depending on where you live, one or more may be local to you
C) Bass Pro, Sportsman's Warehouse, Cabelas, etc., sell primers in lots of 100. Around here, 100 primers go for $5-6, while 1000 go about $28 at the gun shows. Powder Valley has great prices on powder and primers, but you have to buy enough to offset the HazMat shipping charge (usually about $20)..

EDIT: Oh yah - Um...which size primers do those calibers take?

Small Pistol--.40 caliber and smaller (and I'm not 100% sure about .40--I don't own one, but I know that 38/9mm use small pistol primers)
Large Pistol--.45 and larger
Small Pistol Magnum--.357 Mag (.32 Mag and .327 Mag too I guess, I don't own them either)
Large Pistol Magnum--.41 Mag and larger

[44Magnum]

That guy is nuts! Double loads can easily blow apart a gun. Preparing a double, let alone triple, load on purpose is insanity. I'm actually surprised this guy still has both of his hands. You don't need a fortune to reload. I actually use a little Lee Classic Loader for my .357 and a Lyman 310 tong tool for my .44 mag. I've spent around $250 in reloading supplies (tumbler, calipers, trimmer, and other accessories) and have already saved enough to offset this cost. My tools don't work incredibly fast, but I just love the process and don't mind spending time in my shop casting and reloading the good old fashioned way. My loads beat all but the very best premium rounds, but those are over $1 a round and mine only cost about 10 cents.

Here are some videos of me working my Lee setup for .357 without the fancy tools:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WTr-PjXUL0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhH5ZdWJuFQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUWU2l5EzWg

There's no shame in getting started this way. I got started on the cheap because I wasn't sure if I would like it. I now have some of the bells and whistles, but still enjoy using my hand tools to load. I use my lyman tongs more often than my progressive!

One piece of advice: If you choose the Lee Classic, get the Autoprime tool to prime. The loader will set off primers while seating on occasion (especially with soft primers). Do you have a sporting goods store locally? Mine sells primers in small boxes of 100 or cases of 1000. You may want to look into Unique powder. It's not the highest performance stuff out there, but it is versatile as heck. I'll have to post some tong loading videos soon, too.

P.S. I'm in college too! (Aviation major)

[CrustyFN]

First thing is to stay far, far away from the nut you work with. A good manual will give you most if not all of the information on how to reload and the reloading data you will need. I don't know how much the manual will help you with the Lee classic loaders. I have never used them but have talked to a lot of people started that way and still use them to this day from time to time.
Rusty

[govmule84]

Yeah, the bossman says his XD was built to handle double and triple loads, and he loads doubles and shoots them no problemo. I sort of value my pistols, and don't think subjecting them to that sort of stress is necessary... He said he had fifteen hundred in his press and accessories that attach to it alone...I don't know if that is realistic, but it sure ain't economical...it's odd, because he shoots REALLY infrequently.

Anywho... thanks for all the good advice so far.

I guess what I am asking is how do I determine what WEIGHT of bullet I want, what BRAND/Type of powder I need, and what primers to select?

I have gathered so far for my .45 I will be using large pistol primers, and for my .357 I will be using magnum primers, and for 9mm I will use small pistol primers. Is that all correct?

Is the rest of that info in a reloading manual? Do I need to order the tools and manual in my first order, AND THEN go back and order the powder/primer/bullets? I'm trying to avoid mishaps and misorders. The sticky on the first page urges purchases of items that I understand to be not entirely necessary. I plan to upgrade to a press if I like doing this, but I need to discover that first...additionally, do older, used manuals cover powders that are still around? What are the different types of powder?

When do you want a heavy bullet, and when do you want a light one? I think I will avoid lead...I know it is cheaper, but I've had a devil of a time cleaning lead residue out of some of my guns. I'll probably use plain ol' ball for target use, and maybe mix up the odd hollowpoint for SD. Do I want to use my own ammo for carry, or ought I stick with commercial?

Thank you again to all the old hands out there... it seems like this dang ol' interwebz is filled with information, much of it wrong! I sort of feel like that guy brasshopper...just one dumb question after another. If my boss gets all irritated with me again, I'm gonna smack 'im. I've just quit asking.

[govmule84]

Oh...uhh...setting off primers? Is that frightening as all hell?

As far as powder, can I just buy one, and assume that the loading guide will have it in there?

I am so lost. Thank the Lord for Al Gore and his dang ol' internet.

[44Magnum]

You won't necessarially be using magnum primers in your magnums. Magnum primers are used for high performance slow burning powder like H110. A faster powder like Unique will use a standard small pistol primer with the .357. My first video shows the minimum amount of stuff you'll want to get started. All of it can be purchased for around $100.

I usually prefer shooting a slightly slower, heavier bullet than a light, faster one. Different bullets have different uses. For self defense I would use a 125 grain JHP for my .357 magnum over a heavier 158 grainer for reasons of penetration and statistics on success rates. For hunting I use heavier bullets.

I would recommend against using handloads for self defense. I have read a few books on self defense written by authorities on the subject. They all seem to concur that reloads are a bad idea in a self defense situation.

[44Magnum]

Oh...uhh...setting off primers? Is that frightening as all hell?

Don't get scared away. The first time I almost wet my pants, had unburnt fragments of primer stuck in my hand, and my ears rang all day.
After that I had a few others on occasion. That's why I recommended the autoprime if you're using the classic lee kit. They are like big caps - noisy as heck, but won't blow anything up. The shells are primed before filling with powder, so it's just the primer.

Get the book before the powder. This way you'll get to read up on the pros and cons of different brands of powder. After reading you will be able to make an informed decision on what you want. Different powders have different uses.

[CrustyFN]

He said he had fifteen hundred in his press and accessories that attach to it alone...I don't know if that is realistic,

Yes that is realistic. I know somebody that bought a Dillon 650 for one caliber with all of the extras and had $1,500 in it. That doesn't mean that everybody needs to start that way. I would start that way if I needed 2,000 rounds a month or more. I don't get to shoot that much. I started with a Lee classic turret. I can load 200 rounds per hour and have no problem keeping up with my needs for IDPA, GSSF and fun days.
Rusty

[HoraceHogsnort]

Govmule, your friend is nutty as a fruitcake. Take Orion's advice. Take it slow. Put off the purchase until you've carefully saved enough money to get what you need. It may take a year, I don't know your situation, but all things come to those who are patient. No need to rush, you are young.

[govmule84]

Okay...

So get the book first. No problem there.

As far as the primers going off...I am not too awful scared...I know the primer gets seated first. Hopefully the odds of it going off are reduced once it's in place? I'd hate to have my hands in the way of one when I was smacking down a bullet.

I haven't watched the videos because my '93 Gateway doesn't like 'em
I've upgraded to 512 of memory, and I am out of expansion room.

I am taking this slow as I can...which is why I am asking so many dopy questions. I first asked for info from this very board about a year ago (I knew even less then! - even the sticky made no sense to me because I had no idea how to make ammunition!) and have been (slowly) gathering info ever since. I just don't want to buy stuff I may not need, and I certainly don't want anything pricy till I determine this is something I want to be a part of my life.

It was kind of like that for me, really, with guns in general. I was anti-gun till one day I just decided to learn about them from a guy I was working with a little bit, and I had precious few people to talk to. This board, and that former co-worker got me off on the right foot, and now I have five handguns...not a lordly collection, but more than most average joes. I bought a lot of clunkers, and I got better stuff the more I learned. I want this to go the same way, but with less heartache and poorly spent dough...it just turns out I don't know ANYONE who reloads. Ever since I moved from MO to CT, guns are frowned upon...no one 'talks guns', opening day is just another day, and there are precious few good gun shops.

And, I'll stick with WWB in my carry weapons.

SO: How does the autoprime work? And, are newer loading manuals better as they may more accurately reflect what powders are on the market? Does the manual also tell me what primers to use with what powders?

Still humbled by how little I know. All my friends and family call me with gun and gun repair questions, I have taught countless people how to shoot, and I am like a newbie all over again. I just thank all of you guys and gals for your helpful insights... As I age, I learn to learn from others.

Y'all are the best :-)
-L

[Hook686]

one poormo to another:

I would suggest Alliant Unique powder. You can get load data online:

http://www.alliantpowder.com/

I practice with 147 grain plated rainier bullets in 9mm, 158 grain plated bullets in .357 magnum and don't shoor .45acp.

I would suggest you spend some time looking at used equipment. A used single stage ought be pretty cheap and might include at least one of the sets of dies you will be using. I suspect that loading using a hammer gets old pretty fast.

Safety ought not be overlooked. The web offers lots of reloading material. A manual is nice. I picked up a used Lyman, 'Pistol & Revolver Handbook', 1978, for $3 at my local gunsmith's shop.

[govmule84]

I'd planned to call the guy who runs my shop/range tomorrow to see if he had a reloading manual lying about.

As far as the press: I'm not ruling it out. However, if I have turned out so many rounds that loading with a hammer is getting old, GREAT! That means I feel I can spend some coin on a press. Until then, however, I suspect one box of fifty shells will tell me whether or not this is something I would like to continue with.

[jmorris]

1 on a good reloading manual. Once you reed the book and look at suggested loads, if you must use the dipper method I would pick a powder in the middle of the burn rate spectrum (not the fastest or slowest recommended). http://www.reloadersnest.com/burnrates.asp has burn rate info.

If you don’t want to hate reloading get a press, but then again you might like splitting wood. No, just get a press. Even a used single stage will be much better that the hammer kit (and if you look long enough they will cost about the same).

If you are trying to go low buck cast bullets are what your looking for.

Your local gun shop will likely sell you primers by the hundred. You will want to get powder there as well. Shipping powder and primers usually incur a hazmat fee (to offset a group of us order 48# at a time).

[44Magnum]

Primers will not go off once they are seated, unless you do something wreckless. I've never had one go off with a press or autoprimer either. The only times they have gone off are when I was seating with a hammer. It just doesn't happen that often. The autoprime (or any other priming device) works by holding the shell and having a flat 'bar' come up and push a primer (situated on top of the bar) into the pocket with enough force to seat it. Don't go nuts over this fear of primers. They are technically an explosive, but they don't really "explode." Powder is a propellant, not an explosive.

You should also find a way to give the videos a watch. This way you'll know if that kit is your cup of tea or not. Most people don't like them; I am one of the 'nuts' that do. I can do 50 rounds in a little over one hour. Since I only shoot 100 or less a week it's very doable to find three hours between the five weekday evenings to make enough for the weekend. Your priorities may be such that getting one wouldn't be a good idea.

A basic single stage press costs around $80 plus dies ($35). It's a little more expensive and not much faster than the classic kit with practice, but is less taxing to use for larger batches. Many people start here.

Most manuals have a section on equipment and powder along with more detailed instructions on the process as a whole. The process is actually very simple: Clean the cases so they don't scratch the dies, deprime and resize the case, prime, fill with powder, bell the top to allow the bullet to seat, seat the bullet, and crimp. That's it. Find a manual (or two) and read it front to back. The process seems overwhelming, but really isn't. You just need to decide how much time you are willing to dedicate to the process, and how many rounds you shoot. The answers to these questions will drive your equipment choices. A great option for some may drive others to the brink of insanity. So, how many rounds do you shoot per week? How much time are you willing to spend reloading per week?

[benzuncle]

Gov, a lot more good info has come your way via this forum and this post than from your co-worker. I'm grateful to know he is still alive after some of the stuff he told you about "scooping" loads.

When I made the decision to "roll my own", I read and lurked voraciously before making any decisions. The first thing I noticed was that everyone was saying, "Get a manual or two or three and read, read, read." I started with Richard Lee's Modern Reloading 2nd Edition. Mr. Lee espouses his product freely and profusely. That doesn't make him a bad guy. And he does have a lot of good things to say. One of the things that stuck with me goes something like this: "No man or animal is going to know you struck them with super maximum loads." I heed those words.

I read about most of the brands and models on the market, but as you, I didn't want to jump in with both feet only to find out that loading wasn't for me. At the same time I didn't want to begin with a product that was too slow, too time consuming. I found a very good compromise in the Lee Classic Turret Press. I can load single-stage or semi-progressive. I contend that this press is the best bang for the dollar on the market. I only load 2 calibers at present (.45 and .380) but that will more than likely change. While I wanted a Top O'the Line Dillon (they have a huge following with good reason), I didn't want to spend that kind of money to "find out" if I liked loading. Well, I don't like it; I love it! But I am content with my loader and the ease of changing calibers. I've had only a couple of minor problems and with the help and advice of the good folks on the forums, those have been eliminated/corrected. My setup for loading the 45's: $330.70 including primer and powder upgrades, a tumbler, scale, and sundry other items. My workbench and fluorescent light cost another $105. Total cost was about the same as a new handgun. I have read very, very few stories on the internet like the one your co-worker spun. Almost everyone enjoys loading because it makes it less expensive to shoot, is a great hobby unto itself and each round you "build" you will build with pride, the same pride you will shoot them with. I wish you only the best in your "informed" decision.

[Al Norris]

This link will take you to the Lee Precision website that features the 50th Anniversary kit. Buy it from them for $128.00 + shipping. That gives you an idea of what all you will get.

This link is the same thing from Midway. $84.99 + shipping.

Your location is listed as Central MO, so chances are that you are fairly close to a Sportsmans Wharehouse/Cabelas/Bass Pro Shop... Even Wally World will have this kit (sometimes in stock, other times would be a sit-to-site transfer). All this for as cheap as Midway, certainly not more than the Lee site. And you won't be paying the additional shipping.

Yeah, I know you said cheap. But that thumper you're looking at has soured more than one person on reloading.

Everyone else has mentioned, "get a manual first," so I won't.

[govmule84]

Manual first. Good on that.

I'm going to try the hammer thumpers in one caliber. I managed to watch a youtube video of a guy last night assembling a rifle cartridge. He did it pretty quickly, although he didn't seem to crimp the round?

If it goes poorly, I'll try a press...but I like doing things the hard way, it seems. We'll see, I guess.

Are older manuals going to include all the commercially available powders today?

-L.

[44Magnum]

A friend of mine has that 50th Anniversary kit. I have used it and we both agreed that it is a very nice starter kit. It's probably about the cheapest press "kit" available. I prefer my RCBS 505 scale to the Lee Safety Scale, but there's nothing inherently wrong with it. Get that, a pair of dies, and perhaps a tumbler later on and you would be pretty much set.

Most slightly older manuals will have powder and bullets listed that are still manufactured today.

Common powders are: Bullseye, Unique, Accurate #5, Accurate #7, Accurate #9, H110, N-120, 2400, Winchester 296, Viht N-120, IMR-4227, Titegroup, etc...

[govmule84]

Lee hand press? Looks like not much more money, but seems to have better reviews...any thoughts?

[govmule84]

Press kits are looking better and better - the little necessities are gonna add up...

[PCJim]

GovMule84..... There are plenty of gun lovers in CT, maybe not as many that are vocal about their passion as in MO, but they're there. Do a Google search for CT gun forum and you'll get several hits, such as this one...

http://ctguntalk.com/forum/YaBB.pl

You may find that there are some reloaders close enough for a weekend drive and kind enough to show you the ropes so that you have a better sense of the in's and out's.

I learned all that I know on my own. I read the old Speer manuals so many times I can't recall, just to be sure I had a very good idea of what the manufacture of miniature controlled explosives was all about. If you do a lot of reading and studying, you'll feel a lot better about getting into reloading. Remember, too, that it's as much a hobby as it is a means to produce less expensive ammo. You'll probably find (just as most of us have) that you don't save money, you just shoot twice as much.

All the best..

[ilbob]

Reloading tends to be one of those things you either love or hate. Its an auxiliary hobby to your shooting hobby.

I find it somewhat relaxing.

[Dr. Strangelove]

That's how I got started, when I was a kid with my grandfather and a Lee Loader in 9mm. We loaded hundreds of rounds and shoot them out of his old Luger in the basement. Good memories, I still have the loader today and still use it from time to time. I also loaded several thousand rounds with it when my press and other reloading schwag was packed away while I was in college, living in apartments, etc.

After reading your post, I think I know what you are looking for - an introduction to reloading without spending a fortune. The advice above is all correct, yes, you will need manuals, scales, calipers, a press, dies, and all manner of things at some point. You don't need it right now. If all you want to do is try loading and see if it flips your skirt, buy a Lee Loader (about $20.00), a pound of powder (about $20.00), a tray of primers ($3.50 to $5.00, depending on how large your local gun store owner's house payment is) and bullets (price varies, don't bother with premium just to try it out), and I'm assuming you have once fired casings on hand.

Here's a really well written piece on the Lee Loader: http://http://www.jesseshunting.com/...gory8/117.html

The Lee Loader has all the instructions you will need to produce fine quality ammunition. Your questions and the manner in which your posts have been written convince me you have the intelligence to operate a Lee Loader without concern for your safety. Loading data and procedures are available on the internet without the expense of a manual (Hey - I remember what my budget was in college).

As far as powder goes, the only pistol I load for is 9mm, so I can't say what would be appropriate for .357 or .45. I'm sure a post or search here will turn up a powder that would be suitable for .357, .45, and 9mm so you don't have to purchase more than one Pound at a time.

I'm not saying that you don't need scales, calipers, case trimmers, and such, but with the Lee Loader you can load ammunition safely with the kit, a hammer, and consumables.