Just bought this rifle. Need help with make, model etc.

moabman69 · April 16, 2015, 10:02 PM

I bought this rifle from a yard sale. The lady said it was her father's and it had been in the closet for many years. She didn't have the year make or model and no history. I am looking for any ideas. Thanks!

jbrown · April 16, 2015, 10:23 PM

Its an 03 Springfield of some variation.
Obviously sporterized.

timothy75 · April 16, 2015, 10:30 PM

Thats a great find!

RJay · April 16, 2015, 11:54 PM

It was a 03, but someone sporterized it and turned it into a nice looking sporter. Caliber? don't know, it started life as a 30-06, However the caliber could have been changed also.

Jim Watson · April 17, 2015, 08:38 AM

It is a heavily sporterized 1903A3 from the WWII era.
It is not possible to tell anything more from your pictures, the barrel might be GI .30-06 or it could be a replacement in about any caliber.

The serial number is bogus; A3 numbers started at 3000000.

Possibly a pilfered service rifle sporterized on the economy during the Occupation and remarked to obscure its origin.

RJay · April 17, 2015, 11:55 AM

Santa Fe Gun Works? if so it would so marked.

James K · April 17, 2015, 02:53 PM

IIRC, Santa Fe serials began with 7 million. That 2 million serial number makes it "the rifle that never was." Springfield stopped at 1.5 million something, and Remington began at 3 million. It looks to me like whoever did the "sporterizing" and "engraving" ground off all the markings, then put on a fake serial number. One concern I would have is that those rifles were hard, not easy to engrave without annealing the receiver and doing that requires heat. Was the receiver heated? I don't know. If it was, how hot did it get? Again, I don't know. But I would be concerned about firing the rifle until I knew more about what was done to it.

Jim

RJay · April 17, 2015, 11:18 PM

After Santa Fe ran out of leftover receivers, didn't they have their own cast ( not machined ) ?. I seem to remember something along those lines. of course my memory nowadays is as short as my , well you know. I went into a room the other day and forgot what I was there for, luckily it was the bath room.

moabman69 · April 18, 2015, 03:09 PM

Thanks for the information! I will take a few better picts and post them.

jbrown · April 18, 2015, 07:21 PM

If a company sporterizes ,and grinds off serial numbers of surplus recievers,they are supposed to give it a new serial number,what it is doesn't matter,as long as they keep records.

James K · April 18, 2015, 09:25 PM

As I understand, only a licensed manufacturer can put on his own serial numbers and location; a gunsmith who has to remove the serial number for some reason should contact BATFE before doing so; he will either be told to re-use the original number or be assigned a number by BATFE. I am still inclined to think the number in this case is simply spurious, especially since there is no location or any indication of where a record can be found.

Yes, Santa Fe had receivers cast in Spain. Some were not high quality and there are reports of blowups. In the 1960's we sold quite a few SF rifles and had no reports of blowups, but we did get one in that the bolt (shipped in the box) would not fit because the receiver was twisted 20 degrees or so. We returned it and got a good one, or at least one that worked.

I now seem to recall that Santa Fe started at 5 million; it was National Ordnance that started at 7 million. The history of those companies is interesting, but confusing. Anyone who wants to Google can research it; I have done it before and won't bother to do it again.

Jim

moabman69 · April 19, 2015, 07:53 AM

Here are a few more pictures.

moabman69 · April 19, 2015, 07:55 AM

A few more.

moabman69 · April 19, 2015, 07:57 AM

And more

moabman69 · April 19, 2015, 07:58 AM

Picts.

James K · April 19, 2015, 12:08 PM

The problem with a rifle like that is that it was made to suit the tastes of one man. Only another man with the same tastes would buy it. If you like it and it shoots OK, you have a good, and unique, sporting rifle. But its dollar value is low; the engraving is not high quality and, as I said, it was made to suit one man.

As always with a strange rifle, you should check it out carefully or, if you don't have the experience, have a gunsmith do so.

Jim

jbrown · April 19, 2015, 05:33 PM

it would seem from the pictures,that it has no open sights,at least not a rear one,and is not drilled and tapped.
probably hasn't been fired much lately.
oops never mind,I see the rear sight now.

highpower3006 · April 22, 2015, 03:40 AM

It's a low number Springfield '03 that someone added a "2" to the serial number. If you look closely at the serial number, the first 2 is spaced slightly off from the rest of the numbers.

Jim Watson · April 22, 2015, 08:31 AM

No.
It is a 1903A3 that had a made up number applied.
See the big male dovetail on the receiver bridge for a peep sight? That is the immediate identifier of the A3. All nickel steel or vanadium steel.

highpower3006 · April 22, 2015, 09:03 AM

Your are right. I didn't look through all the pics when I jumped to that conclusion. Sorry about that.

James K · April 22, 2015, 08:16 PM

I thought the same thing at first on the serial number; adding a 1 to the front end used to be a fairly common practice, but the rear ring is definitely A3.

I note it still has the '03A3 stamped floorplate and trigger guard; a quality sporterizing job would have included replacing the bottom metal with a "milled" guard and floorplate. I get the impression of a low cost job, maybe done by someone just starting in the gunsmith business and practicing on the customers' rifles. Still, if it is to one's taste...

Jim

April 16, 2015, 11:54 PM	#4
RJay Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,936	It was a 03, but someone sporterized it and turned it into a nice looking sporter. Caliber? don't know, it started life as a 30-06, However the caliber could have been changed also. __________________ Ron James

April 17, 2015, 11:55 AM	#6
RJay Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,936	Santa Fe Gun Works? if so it would so marked. __________________ Ron James

April 17, 2015, 11:18 PM	#8
RJay Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,936	After Santa Fe ran out of leftover receivers, didn't they have their own cast ( not machined ) ?. I seem to remember something along those lines. of course my memory nowadays is as short as my , well you know. I went into a room the other day and forgot what I was there for, luckily it was the bath room. __________________ Ron James Last edited by RJay; April 18, 2015 at 04:56 PM.

April 16, 2015, 10:23 PM	#2
jbrown Senior Member Join Date: August 5, 2006 Location: minnesota Posts: 215	Its an 03 Springfield of some variation. Obviously sporterized.

April 16, 2015, 10:30 PM	#3
timothy75 Senior Member Join Date: April 19, 2005 Location: Nevada Posts: 1,146	Thats a great find!

April 17, 2015, 08:38 AM	#5
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,537	It is a heavily sporterized 1903A3 from the WWII era. It is not possible to tell anything more from your pictures, the barrel might be GI .30-06 or it could be a replacement in about any caliber. The serial number is bogus; A3 numbers started at 3000000. Possibly a pilfered service rifle sporterized on the economy during the Occupation and remarked to obscure its origin.

April 17, 2015, 02:53 PM	#7
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	IIRC, Santa Fe serials began with 7 million. That 2 million serial number makes it "the rifle that never was." Springfield stopped at 1.5 million something, and Remington began at 3 million. It looks to me like whoever did the "sporterizing" and "engraving" ground off all the markings, then put on a fake serial number. One concern I would have is that those rifles were hard, not easy to engrave without annealing the receiver and doing that requires heat. Was the receiver heated? I don't know. If it was, how hot did it get? Again, I don't know. But I would be concerned about firing the rifle until I knew more about what was done to it. Jim

April 18, 2015, 03:09 PM	#9
moabman69 Junior Member Join Date: April 16, 2015 Posts: 6	Thanks for the information! I will take a few better picts and post them.

April 18, 2015, 07:21 PM	#10
jbrown Senior Member Join Date: August 5, 2006 Location: minnesota Posts: 215	If a company sporterizes ,and grinds off serial numbers of surplus recievers,they are supposed to give it a new serial number,what it is doesn't matter,as long as they keep records.

April 18, 2015, 09:25 PM	#11
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	As I understand, only a licensed manufacturer can put on his own serial numbers and location; a gunsmith who has to remove the serial number for some reason should contact BATFE before doing so; he will either be told to re-use the original number or be assigned a number by BATFE. I am still inclined to think the number in this case is simply spurious, especially since there is no location or any indication of where a record can be found. Yes, Santa Fe had receivers cast in Spain. Some were not high quality and there are reports of blowups. In the 1960's we sold quite a few SF rifles and had no reports of blowups, but we did get one in that the bolt (shipped in the box) would not fit because the receiver was twisted 20 degrees or so. We returned it and got a good one, or at least one that worked. I now seem to recall that Santa Fe started at 5 million; it was National Ordnance that started at 7 million. The history of those companies is interesting, but confusing. Anyone who wants to Google can research it; I have done it before and won't bother to do it again. Jim

April 19, 2015, 12:08 PM	#16
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The problem with a rifle like that is that it was made to suit the tastes of one man. Only another man with the same tastes would buy it. If you like it and it shoots OK, you have a good, and unique, sporting rifle. But its dollar value is low; the engraving is not high quality and, as I said, it was made to suit one man. As always with a strange rifle, you should check it out carefully or, if you don't have the experience, have a gunsmith do so. Jim

April 19, 2015, 05:33 PM	#17
jbrown Senior Member Join Date: August 5, 2006 Location: minnesota Posts: 215	it would seem from the pictures,that it has no open sights,at least not a rear one,and is not drilled and tapped. probably hasn't been fired much lately. oops never mind,I see the rear sight now.

April 22, 2015, 03:40 AM	#18
highpower3006 Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2011 Location: Savannah TN Posts: 1,220	It's a low number Springfield '03 that someone added a "2" to the serial number. If you look closely at the serial number, the first 2 is spaced slightly off from the rest of the numbers.

April 22, 2015, 08:31 AM	#19
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,537	No. It is a 1903A3 that had a made up number applied. See the big male dovetail on the receiver bridge for a peep sight? That is the immediate identifier of the A3. All nickel steel or vanadium steel.

April 22, 2015, 09:03 AM	#20
highpower3006 Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2011 Location: Savannah TN Posts: 1,220	Your are right. I didn't look through all the pics when I jumped to that conclusion. Sorry about that.

April 22, 2015, 08:16 PM	#21
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I thought the same thing at first on the serial number; adding a 1 to the front end used to be a fairly common practice, but the rear ring is definitely A3. I note it still has the '03A3 stamped floorplate and trigger guard; a quality sporterizing job would have included replacing the bottom metal with a "milled" guard and floorplate. I get the impression of a low cost job, maybe done by someone just starting in the gunsmith business and practicing on the customers' rifles. Still, if it is to one's taste... Jim