.45 200gr lead SWC not cycling in Glock 30sf, FNP 45

Formula500racer · February 1, 2011, 12:34 PM

I've had quite a bit of trouble getting my 200gr swc bullets to cycle reliably in both my glock 30 SF, and in my FNP 45.

I've tried OALs from 1.17x out to 1.30, and oal doesn't seem to affect the problem. I've also tried different crimps, again, to no avail.

The problem seems to be related to the packaging of the guns. On the glock during ejection, the 6 o'clock portion of the case rim of a fired case strikes the case mouth/land on the base of the bullet of the next cartridge at the top of the mag. When this occurs, the extractor looses its grip on the already fired case, slide goes all the way to the rear, comes back forward and re-chambers the spent case.

I am 100% certain that these loads are more than hot enough to cycle the slide, I was getting about 830FPS out of the G30, which is about 20fps hotter than factory stuff.

This happens on the glock about 80% of the time, and about 25% of the time with the FNP.

These loads run 100% perfect in an H&K 45, and 1911, so I believe it to be a gun specific problem.

Before I sell off 1,880 200gr SWC bullets, does anyone have any other ideas on how to remedy my problem???

flyboyjake · February 1, 2011, 02:10 PM

I believe the solution would involve a dremel and some work on the feed ramp. I am afraid you may be stuck with the issue, but you may try polishing the feed ramp a bit. SWCs are known to have feeding problems in many autos, so you are not alone. good luck

Formula500racer · February 1, 2011, 02:21 PM

Jake,

The rounds will feed perfectly all day, the problem occurs after the round fires and the gun is trying to eject the spend casing and the spent case rim strikes the shoulder of the top round in the magazine.

I'll try and make a video of the problem.

flyboyjake · February 1, 2011, 03:11 PM

I understand now. That is a whopper of a problem in my head...I wish I had something for you. I will watch closely as Id love to hear some of the ingenuity offered.

I had a friend with a custom 1911 that had a similar issue. it would feed fine, but during extraction, the a [particular brand bullet would snag and the the extractor would release the bullet as the slide continued. He called kimber and they simply said, wait till the break in period is over. It sounded like a cop out to me, but sure enough, after 500 rds were shot, everything was fixed. I suspect this has 0 bearing on your issue, but you never know, lol.

Formula500racer · February 1, 2011, 03:15 PM

Jake,

I've never called glock or FNP about it, but I may.

The bullet manufacturer isn't to blame here, but he has offered to swap all of my SWC's for RN's, great customer service IMHO (dardas).

Eagle0711 · February 1, 2011, 06:47 PM

Wow, I thought I'd seen and heard it all, but I have no idea how to solve this.

Wilson Combat told me that OAL was 1.24-1.26", but in a different gun.

Glock will tell you not to shoot handloads, especially lead if in fact that is the bullet that your'e using.

Can you shoot them in your HK or 1911?

The only solution that I can think of is to seat the bullet where the shoulder is slightly below the case mouth, BUT THAT WILL RAISE PRESSURE, and your'e probably close to the top now with those velocity's. So would have to back off on the powder charge. Be sure what you do is safe.

I'm sure that you could easily sell the bullets if you want to.

Hopefully you will figure this out. Best, Eagle

Formula500racer · February 1, 2011, 07:51 PM

This should illustrate the problem a little more clearly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3K2hEN-_t3A

dummy rounds, FYI

chris in va · February 1, 2011, 08:19 PM

No first hand experience, but I have read several threads about people having issues with SWC and the G30. Switch to a different profile like TC or LRN.

http://glocktalk.com/forums/archive/...t-1248824.html

http://www.glockpost.com/forums/showthread.php?p=232490

Couple of examples.

BDS-THR · February 1, 2011, 09:35 PM

This has been a known problem with XD45. The problem was with the straight slide rib not pushing the top round in the magazine far enough down to allow the spent case to eject. XDM fixed this problem by modifying the slide.

Below are pictures to illustrate this. Check your slide rib. If it won't push the top round in the magazine down enough, you'll need to use RN profile bullets like MBC 200 gr RN. Website comment states, "FEEDS LIKE BUTTER". This bullet does better at shorter OAL like 1.195" or down to the crimp groove and accuracy was comparable to 200 gr SWC with 5.0 gr of W231/HP38.

Here's repost diagram from xdtalk showing SWC and straight slide rib:

"Rough" picture of most semi-auto (especially compact/subcompact) with angled rib near chamber end for case lip to clear next round in the magazine.

Jim Watson · February 1, 2011, 10:35 PM

My first Sig Sauer P220 .45 had exactly that failure mode with semiwadcutters.
I traded it off because I thought it ought to shoot my 1911 ammo.
But I missed it and got another that I keep some roundnose for so as to avoid problems.

So shoot your 1800 bullets in the guns that will handle them and get something with a smooth ogive for the ones that won't.

StrongSideArmsInc · February 1, 2011, 10:38 PM

Lead bullets are a "no,no" in polygonal barrels. Not that it has anything to do with the feeding problem.

BDS-THR · February 1, 2011, 11:12 PM

SWC doesn't automatically mean lead for 45ACP.

Berry's makes two plated SWC bullets for 45ACP.

Formula500racer · February 1, 2011, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Lead bullets are a "no,no" in polygonal barrels. Not that it has anything to do with the feeding problem.

How many lead rounds have you put through your glock? Or are you just repeating that?

My brother and I are well past 10K lead rounds through the 4 glocks we own. If you're nervous about it, take it slow. I started with 5 rounds, cleaned, then 10, then 20, then 40.... We have put as many as 500 rounds through between cleanings in everything from 9 to 45.

Quote:

This has been a known problem with XD45. The problem was with the straight slide rib not pushing the top round in the magazine far enough down to allow the spent case to eject. XDM fixed this problem by modifying the slide.

I guess the glock needs an larger slide rib. The FNP's rib must be almost big enough.

Is the glock part removable? If I could get it out, I could make a model of it and have a slightly larger one machined.

BDS-THR · February 2, 2011, 12:03 AM

Quote:

I guess the glock needs an larger slide rib. The FNP's rib must be almost big enough.

Is the glock part removable? If I could get it out, I could make a model of it and have a slightly larger one machined.

Slide rib is an integral part of the slide located lengthwise on the bottom of the slide. If the slide rib is not pushing down on the top round in the magazine far enough for ejecting case base rim to clear the shoulder of SWC bullet, then you have no choice but to use a RN/TC/JHP profile bullet.

With RN/TC/JHP profile bullet and slide rib that does not push down on the top round as far, the ejecting case base rim rides on the profile of the bullet nose (ogive) then slides over the case neck.

As to shooting lead reloads out of factory Glock barrels, I inspect and clean as necessary every 200-300 rounds and keep my powder charges moderate to allow for some "head room" in chamber pressure.

chris in va · February 2, 2011, 02:45 AM

Quote:

Lead bullets are a "no,no" in polygonal barrels.

Please. Yet another blanket statement.

Want to know how many LRN I've put through my G21SF?

StrongSideArmsInc · February 2, 2011, 11:04 PM

Do me a favor, when your smarter than then the people at HK and Glock, and you get a job and get off the forums, then talk crap.

Since you own a glock, you obviously not concerned with accuracy, so that will eliminate one of the aspects of using lead in polyganal rifling.

Second, one suggestion of what the "additional factor involved in Glock's warning" might be is that Glock barrels have a fairly sharp transition between the chamber and the rifling, and this area is prone to lead buildup if lead bullets are used. This buildup may result in failures to fully return to battery, allowing the gun to fire with the case not fully supported by the chamber, leading to a potentially dangerous case failure. Plus most fiearms will not fire out of battery, however, several hundred documented cases have shown Glocks firing out of battery.
Another possible explanation is that there are different "species" of polygonal rifle and perhaps Glock's peculiar style of polygonal rifling may be more prone to leading than the particular styles employed in the H&K and Kahr barrels.

You may fire several thousand lead rounds of a Glock with no issue, just remember that it only takes one load, to rearrange your face, why take the chance? I no several stories in life were people got of cheap, and it always comes back to burn them.
A easy fix is to buy a button style barrel from lone wolf, I did, and that solved my feeding issue with my G21 with SWC bullets.

Formula500racer · February 3, 2011, 07:44 AM

strongsidearms:

Glock doesn't recommend shooting ANY reloads in their guns. Are you smarter than them too? I think in large part, these recommendations (no lead, no reloads) serve more to limit their own liability than anything else.

When a glock blows up, is it solely because a shooter is shooting lead, or might it also be due to an error the loader made (double charge, overpressure)??

It's a whole lot easier to blame the bullet than it is to blame yourself for a stupid mistake.

dlb435 · February 3, 2011, 08:52 AM

I think your loads might be too light. You should be getting about 900 fps with 200 grain bullets. The Glocks like really hot ammo to cycle well. Try loading some rounds at the max powder recommended for the rounds you are using and give it a try.
I've got a Colt Gold Cup with the traget load spring and have to light load my rounds for target shooting. If I change to the standard spring the gun won't cycle.
Also check your grip on the Glock. Any "limp wristing" will also cause the pistol to stovepipe or fail to cycle.

Formula500racer · February 3, 2011, 09:45 AM

900 fps is about the max for the win 231 I'm using. I'm not giving up yet on the FNP, so i'll try some hotter loads and some mixed oal's this weekend.

February 1, 2011, 12:34 PM	#1
Formula500racer Member Join Date: January 31, 2011 Posts: 28	.45 200gr lead SWC not cycling in Glock 30sf, FNP 45 I've had quite a bit of trouble getting my 200gr swc bullets to cycle reliably in both my glock 30 SF, and in my FNP 45. I've tried OALs from 1.17x out to 1.30, and oal doesn't seem to affect the problem. I've also tried different crimps, again, to no avail. The problem seems to be related to the packaging of the guns. On the glock during ejection, the 6 o'clock portion of the case rim of a fired case strikes the case mouth/land on the base of the bullet of the next cartridge at the top of the mag. When this occurs, the extractor looses its grip on the already fired case, slide goes all the way to the rear, comes back forward and re-chambers the spent case. I am 100% certain that these loads are more than hot enough to cycle the slide, I was getting about 830FPS out of the G30, which is about 20fps hotter than factory stuff. This happens on the glock about 80% of the time, and about 25% of the time with the FNP. These loads run 100% perfect in an H&K 45, and 1911, so I believe it to be a gun specific problem. Before I sell off 1,880 200gr SWC bullets, does anyone have any other ideas on how to remedy my problem???

February 1, 2011, 10:38 PM	#11
StrongSideArmsInc Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2011 Location: Florida Posts: 238	Lead bullets are a "no,no" in polygonal barrels. Not that it has anything to do with the feeding problem. __________________ I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough. Without ever having felt sorry for itself. -- D.H. Lawrence

February 2, 2011, 11:04 PM	#16
StrongSideArmsInc Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2011 Location: Florida Posts: 238	Do me a favor, when your smarter than then the people at HK and Glock, and you get a job and get off the forums, then talk crap. Since you own a glock, you obviously not concerned with accuracy, so that will eliminate one of the aspects of using lead in polyganal rifling. Second, one suggestion of what the "additional factor involved in Glock's warning" might be is that Glock barrels have a fairly sharp transition between the chamber and the rifling, and this area is prone to lead buildup if lead bullets are used. This buildup may result in failures to fully return to battery, allowing the gun to fire with the case not fully supported by the chamber, leading to a potentially dangerous case failure. Plus most fiearms will not fire out of battery, however, several hundred documented cases have shown Glocks firing out of battery. Another possible explanation is that there are different "species" of polygonal rifle and perhaps Glock's peculiar style of polygonal rifling may be more prone to leading than the particular styles employed in the H&K and Kahr barrels. You may fire several thousand lead rounds of a Glock with no issue, just remember that it only takes one load, to rearrange your face, why take the chance? I no several stories in life were people got of cheap, and it always comes back to burn them. A easy fix is to buy a button style barrel from lone wolf, I did, and that solved my feeding issue with my G21 with SWC bullets. __________________ I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough. Without ever having felt sorry for itself. -- D.H. Lawrence

February 1, 2011, 02:10 PM	#2
flyboyjake Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2010 Posts: 135	I believe the solution would involve a dremel and some work on the feed ramp. I am afraid you may be stuck with the issue, but you may try polishing the feed ramp a bit. SWCs are known to have feeding problems in many autos, so you are not alone. good luck

February 1, 2011, 02:21 PM	#3
Formula500racer Member Join Date: January 31, 2011 Posts: 28	Jake, The rounds will feed perfectly all day, the problem occurs after the round fires and the gun is trying to eject the spend casing and the spent case rim strikes the shoulder of the top round in the magazine. I'll try and make a video of the problem.

February 1, 2011, 03:11 PM	#4
flyboyjake Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2010 Posts: 135	I understand now. That is a whopper of a problem in my head...I wish I had something for you. I will watch closely as Id love to hear some of the ingenuity offered. I had a friend with a custom 1911 that had a similar issue. it would feed fine, but during extraction, the a [particular brand bullet would snag and the the extractor would release the bullet as the slide continued. He called kimber and they simply said, wait till the break in period is over. It sounded like a cop out to me, but sure enough, after 500 rds were shot, everything was fixed. I suspect this has 0 bearing on your issue, but you never know, lol.

February 1, 2011, 03:15 PM	#5
Formula500racer Member Join Date: January 31, 2011 Posts: 28	Jake, I've never called glock or FNP about it, but I may. The bullet manufacturer isn't to blame here, but he has offered to swap all of my SWC's for RN's, great customer service IMHO (dardas).

February 1, 2011, 06:47 PM	#6
Eagle0711 Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2010 Posts: 782	Wow, I thought I'd seen and heard it all, but I have no idea how to solve this. Wilson Combat told me that OAL was 1.24-1.26", but in a different gun. Glock will tell you not to shoot handloads, especially lead if in fact that is the bullet that your'e using. Can you shoot them in your HK or 1911? The only solution that I can think of is to seat the bullet where the shoulder is slightly below the case mouth, BUT THAT WILL RAISE PRESSURE, and your'e probably close to the top now with those velocity's. So would have to back off on the powder charge. Be sure what you do is safe. I'm sure that you could easily sell the bullets if you want to. Hopefully you will figure this out. Best, Eagle

February 1, 2011, 07:51 PM	#7
Formula500racer Member Join Date: January 31, 2011 Posts: 28	This should illustrate the problem a little more clearly. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3K2hEN-_t3A dummy rounds, FYI

February 1, 2011, 08:19 PM	#8
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	No first hand experience, but I have read several threads about people having issues with SWC and the G30. Switch to a different profile like TC or LRN. http://glocktalk.com/forums/archive/...t-1248824.html http://www.glockpost.com/forums/showthread.php?p=232490 Couple of examples.

February 1, 2011, 10:35 PM	#10
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	My first Sig Sauer P220 .45 had exactly that failure mode with semiwadcutters. I traded it off because I thought it ought to shoot my 1911 ammo. But I missed it and got another that I keep some roundnose for so as to avoid problems. So shoot your 1800 bullets in the guns that will handle them and get something with a smooth ogive for the ones that won't.

February 1, 2011, 11:12 PM	#12
BDS-THR Senior Member Join Date: June 12, 2010 Posts: 479	SWC doesn't automatically mean lead for 45ACP. Berry's makes two plated SWC bullets for 45ACP.

February 3, 2011, 07:44 AM	#17
Formula500racer Member Join Date: January 31, 2011 Posts: 28	strongsidearms: Glock doesn't recommend shooting ANY reloads in their guns. Are you smarter than them too? I think in large part, these recommendations (no lead, no reloads) serve more to limit their own liability than anything else. When a glock blows up, is it solely because a shooter is shooting lead, or might it also be due to an error the loader made (double charge, overpressure)?? It's a whole lot easier to blame the bullet than it is to blame yourself for a stupid mistake.

February 3, 2011, 08:52 AM	#18
dlb435 Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2009 Posts: 654	I think your loads might be too light. You should be getting about 900 fps with 200 grain bullets. The Glocks like really hot ammo to cycle well. Try loading some rounds at the max powder recommended for the rounds you are using and give it a try. I've got a Colt Gold Cup with the traget load spring and have to light load my rounds for target shooting. If I change to the standard spring the gun won't cycle. Also check your grip on the Glock. Any "limp wristing" will also cause the pistol to stovepipe or fail to cycle.

February 3, 2011, 09:45 AM	#19
Formula500racer Member Join Date: January 31, 2011 Posts: 28	900 fps is about the max for the win 231 I'm using. I'm not giving up yet on the FNP, so i'll try some hotter loads and some mixed oal's this weekend.