CCW and Alcohol at Restaurants

[glh17]

Easy. Don't drink and carry.

[southjk]

"If you're going to drink and drive, why not drink and carry?"

Because it is legal to have a drink and drive as long as you are not over .08 BAC in TN but illegal to have ANY alcohol and carry.

[Revan]

I do not think that you should be forced to give up your right to defend yourself simply because you enjoy a beer or two, that's BS. Be responsible is the only guide that I use. Better judged by a jury that to perish at the hand of a criminal. Refuse to be a victim!

[wayneinFL]

If it's illegal, then don't do it.

My personal opinion is that an idiot will be a drunken idiot, and a normal person will still handle himself as a gentleman with a few drinks.

But the laws and courts are another story.

[monkeyfist]

Again, another fact that Connecticut doesn't have such laws. Such a conservative state with supposed conservative laws. It's funny that many other states have laws concerning this.

I'm not aware of any law that says I can't carry while drinking. It'd be stupid to have a law, IMHO. Oh yeah, anybody can illegally have a gun, but God forbid the people that can legally carry one.

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by Revan

I do not think that you should be forced to give up your right to defend yourself simply because you enjoy a beer or two, that's BS. Be responsible is the only guide that I use. Better judged by a jury that to perish at the hand of a criminal. Refuse to be a victim!

On the other hand, what if you are unlucky enough to have had a few drinks, need to use your gun in self defense, and are now about to be judged by a jury?

The prosecutor will no doubt have put on the witness stand one or more experts to testify about how alcohol consumption impairs one's judgment and perception. And now they will be considering that expert testimony while deciding whether to accept your story about how and why you decided that it was justified for you to shoot another human.

Some folks don't fully understand the legal reality of using force in self defense. This post and this post might provide some useful background on the subject.

[monkeyfist]

On the other hand, what if you are unlucky enough to have had a few drinks, "need to use your gun in self defense, and are now about to be judged by a jury?

The prosecutor will no doubt have put on the witness stand one or more experts to testify about how alcohol consumption impairs one's judgment and perception. And now they will be considering that expert testimony while deciding whether to accept your story about how and why you decided that it was justified for you to shoot another human.

Some folks don't fully understand the legal reality of using force in self defense. This post and this post might provide some useful background on the subject."

________________

So you're saying that people that drink aren't legally obligated to defend themselves?

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by monkeyfist

So you're saying that people that drink aren't legally obligated to defend themselves?

Well first, one is never legally obligated to defend himself. But the law may excuse one from criminal responsibility for an act of violence which would otherwise incur criminal penalties if it can be established that the act was justified. That is the reality of using force in self defense.

See the posts I've linked to for more details.

[MtnMike1]

Thanks guys for the discussion. The deeper issues above were the purpose of my post. I don't carry in public places and never have felt the need. The point of my post was to understand how others who CCW full time or live in locations where crime is more challenging handle the situation. Hopefully we all agree, alcohol and guns are best enjoyed separately.

I hope I'm never in a position where I have to choose to seriously wound or take another person's life and like you I most likely never will be. But if I were in that position, if I were walking back to my car after having a beer and pizza with my family ... and I was unarmed would the results be worse than facing a similar situation while armed? I understand neither situation is desirable but those are the philosophical type questions that prompted my post. Thanks all

[Polglock]

I'm 29 yrs. Old and I actually quit drinking all together once I got my ccw permit. I got my permit so I could always at least feel safer. To feel safer you always need your gun. To always have your gun you should never be under the influence of anything. Firearms and alcohol = problems. Unless grandpa is in the duck blind. He swears jaquins brandy saved his life in the old days when their boat tipped. He always keeps it with him now when duck hunting lol.

[Pahoo]

I hope I'm never in a position where I have to choose to seriously wound or take another person's life and like you I most likely never will be.

You will know what you have to do, when and if, that time comes .....

Be Safe !!!

[TimSr]

I do not think that you should be forced to give up your right to defend yourself simply because you enjoy a beer or two, that's BS.

Does a convicted felon or other disqualified person lose the right to defend themselves? No, but they can't use a firearm to do it.



In Ohio, you can't have any alcohol in your system. That takes away any argument for whether you had too much to carry based on all the other factors. I believe its also illegal to lock it in your car since it is still under your control, even if you under the limit to drive.

[steve4102]

Does a convicted felon or other disqualified person lose the right to defend themselves? No, but they can't use a firearm to do it.



In Ohio, you can't have any alcohol in your system. That takes away any argument for whether you had too much to carry based on all the other factors. I believe its also illegal to lock it in your car since it is still under your control, even if you under the limit to drive.

Are you saying that in Ohio, having alcohol in ones system strips him/her of their legal right to self defense with a firearm?

Are you saying that if you had a few and you and your wife were attacked in a parking lot it is against Ohio law to defend yourself with a firearm? You can't retreat, you can't physically fight back, so you must stand tall and take your beating and hope you do not die in the process?

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by steve4102

Are you saying that in Ohio, having alcohol in ones system strips him/her of their legal right to self defense with a firearm?...

Remember Bernie Goetz, the 1984 "Subway Vigilante."

He was acquitted of shooting the men he said attacked hm. The jury accepted his claim of self defense. But he was sent to prison for unlawful possession of a gun.

So it's possible for a to be exonerated from criminal responsibility for shooting someone if your claim of self defense is accepted. But you could still be convicted of a weapons charge if you violated some law by having the gun in your possession.

[Tom Servo]

The jury accepted his claim of self defense. But he was sent to prison for unlawful possession of a gun.

Criminal charges were only the beginning of his problems. Subsequent civil litigation drained him financially.

Civil suits have a lower burden of proof, and the allegation could be made that I was negligent by virtue of being impaired.

[JohnKSa]

Does a convicted felon or other disqualified person lose the right to defend themselves? No, but they can't use a firearm to do it.

Well, not precisely. They can use a firearm to do it, but doing so may open them up to other charges, as pointed out.

So a drunk person (or convicted felon) who killed someone with a firearm in self-defense might not be convicted of murder if the circumstances were extremely clearcut in his favor. But he might still be prosecuted for possessing the firearm and (in the case of the intoxicated individual) might lose the right to carry, or even to own, firearms in the future.

[JN01]

In Ohio, you can't have any alcohol in your system.

Actually, what the law says is:

2923.15 Using weapons while intoxicated.
(A) No person, while under the influence of alcohol or any drug of abuse, shall carry or use any firearm or dangerous ordnance.

(B) Whoever violates this section is guilty of using weapons while intoxicated, a misdemeanor of the first degree.

There is no definition of "under the influence" in this section of the law, but presumably, you could have some alcohol in your system and not be in violation of this section of the law.

On the other hand, if you are in a bar or restaurant serving alcohol, the following applies:

2923.121 Possession of firearm in beer liquor permit premises - prohibition, exceptions.
(A) No person shall possess a firearm in any room in which any person is consuming beer or intoxicating liquor in a premises for which a D permit has been issued under Chapter 4303. of the Revised Code or in an open air arena for which a permit of that nature has been issued.
(B)
(1) This section does not apply to any of the following:
(e) Any person who is carrying a valid concealed handgun license, as long as the person is not consuming beer or intoxicating liquor or under the influence of alcohol or a drug of abuse.

In this case you may not consume a drop while in the establishment, but if you had a small amount (not enough to constitute intoxication) in your system prior to entering the establishment 2923.15 should apply, though proving that the consumption occurred earlier might be problematic.

[8MM Mauser]

I do not think that you should be forced to give up your right to defend yourself simply because you enjoy a beer or two, that's BS. Be responsible is the only guide that I use. Better judged by a jury that to perish at the hand of a criminal. Refuse to be a victim!

The other day I went shooting, and I noticed that my score diminished somewhat because of poor diet. I at pancakes loaded with sugar and had two cups of coffee that morning, and it hurt my shooting. How do you think alcohol is going to affect your ability to shoot? I would not feel at all comfortable personally firing a gun with alcohol swimming in my system. Leave the gun at home, stay away from bad areas especially if you have a few drinks and maybe carry a small impact weapon. IMO you give up the right to use lethal force once you have impaired your judgement. No one is making you go out and drink. If it is important to you, leave it at home; if not then carry it and don't drink.

What if it causes you to make a bad call and draw down on somebody walking towards you with a cell phone or something? Think about it. You say refuse to be a victim, and I agree. So don't drink while out, that is a great way to become a victim.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Well, the right to eat pancakes shall not be abridged!!

I wonder if that was truly the causal agent?

[Dreaming100Straight]

Carrying in a bar is more likely to result in the poor exercise of judgment than elsewhere due to the opportunity for conflict with others with impaired judgment.

[monkeyfist]

"The other day I went shooting, and I noticed that my score diminished somewhat because of poor diet. I at pancakes loaded with sugar and had two cups of coffee that morning, and it hurt my shooting. How do you think alcohol is going to affect your ability to shoot?"

I'd likely be more steady after a few beers than after a few coffees due to caffeine. I'm definitely more shaky after drinking coffee. So should we outlaw caffeine and carrying?

[Theohazard]

Originally Posted by Bob Wright

Doesn't it bother anyone that when someone chooses to drink, they take off their gun and lock it in the car? Then what? Drive home?

Bingo! A lot of people say you should never have even a single drink while carrying a gun, but do they feel the same way about driving? Statistically, cars are far more dangerous than guns. So if you won't even have one drink while carrying, you should never have a single drink before driving.

I live in Washington. Here the law is very clear: You can't carry in a bar, but it's OK to drink alcohol while carrying, you just can't go over the .08% limit.

I carry everywhere I can legally carry, including restaurants where I might have a beer or two. If I'm sober enough to drive home, I'm sober enough to carry. Just as I would never drink too much to affect my driving, I would never drink too much to affect my judgement while carrying.

[rburch]

If I decide to drink the gun gets locked in the safe in my car.

If anything happens while I'm inside, I'll just have to make do with pepper-spray, and my knives.

That's the way the law is set, if you don't like it, change the law.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by SamNavy

It's illegal to carry and consume in NC and most places, ...

While this statement may be correct, I know that there are many states where simply consuming any alcohol whatsoever while carrying is not prohibited by law. "Most places" would suggest that "no alcohol whatsoever" is the law in a preponderance of states.

Does anyone know what states actually have this requirement, compared to what states impose a blood-alcohol percentage requirement as for driving?