Guide rod

BUFF · August 8, 2011, 03:32 PM

What's the function of a guide rod on semi-auto handguns? I've always had 1911 platforms so I never paid much attention to other platforms. Bought a P11 Kel-Tec with a plastic guide rod. Then I started reading some threads about problems with guide rods. So why do some have them and some don't?

James K · August 8, 2011, 03:49 PM

I assume you are talking about the so-called "full length guide rod" or FLGR, a current fad with 1911 type pistols. The original design, which went through two World Wars and a bunch of "actions" was perfectly OK, but some folks decided the springs might rub or something, and lo and behold, the FLGR came about.

IMHO, the FLGR serves only to aid in extraction. Its sole purpose is to extract money from the sucker's pocket and put it into the pocket of the seller of the FLGR.

Some, furthermore, make field stripping the pistol much more difficult and time consuming, again for no real advantage.

Worse, it was the FLGR that has given us all those firing pin block safeties. It is almost impossible to fire the original design by dropping it on the muzzle, since the barrel and slide move back and absorb a lot of the inertia. But with an FLGR installed, the slide cannot move, and the full firing pin momentum is available to impact the primer of a chambered round.

As I said, the sellers of FLGR's will now have at me, flaming me and calling me names other than

Jim

Bill DeShivs · August 8, 2011, 11:24 PM

Some guns are designed to use a guide rod. It keeps the recoil spring from kinking.
The 1911 was designed without a guide rod. The recoil spring is captive and self-guiding.

HiBC · August 10, 2011, 02:29 AM

I have been tinkering with my Randall Commander clone:70's era.I think the Detonics helped introduce the guide rod.Anyway,this handgun had one.Field strip was more difficult,and some other things weren't quite right.Its a better gun now,without the rod.Solution to a problem that does not exist,I think.

longlane · August 10, 2011, 08:13 AM

I've ordered these from both Kel Tec and Midway and installed them on all P11s of friends and family. Why? Tighter lock up, seem to be a bit more accurate from a clamped shooting rest (less sloppy), and they add a tiny bit of weight to the front where it's needed to help a bit with muzzle flip. And you wind up with the original plastic as a spare.

Bill DeShivs · August 10, 2011, 12:07 PM

Steel guide rods on the P11 will prematurely wear the hole that they ride through in the slide. They are also rigid, and can cause jams in this pistol.

Harry Bonar · August 14, 2011, 07:53 AM

Sirs;
On 1911s (full size) I will not use a rod!
Harry B.

Gary Wells · August 14, 2011, 08:44 AM

FLGRs have been around long before the first Detonics Corporation.

It has been proven that FLGRs neither help or hurt accuracy.

It is impossible for a .45 auto recoil spring to bind & / or kink inside the gun.

2 piece FLGRs are considered worse than a 1 piece FLGR as they can come loose, and require a allen wrench for assembly and disassembly.

.45 autos having FLGRs in some cases are easier to assemble and disassemble than those that do not have a FLGR. Depends entirely on the experience of the shooter in which system he has the most time with.

FLGRs add a little weight to the muzzle end of the gun, thus reducing recoil tip-up and aiding in back on target time/

FLGRs can and probably will smooth out the cycling a tad.

Some FLGRs are available in tungsten, increasing the weight at the muzzle a tad more.

Most of the gamers and competition shooters use them in one form or another.

They do remove the "twang" sound when cycling your .45 auto by hand if it does so. Some .45 autos have that "Twang" and some don't. that is the the recoil spring rubbing against the frame recoil spring tunnel generally.

I do not recommend that people other than myself use FLGRs and / or Shok-buffs. Regardless or what others tell you it is strictly a matter of personal preference.
FLGRs & Shok-buffs both have quite a few haters, that's for sure.

HTH, IMHO, & FWIW.

FWIW, I use FLGRs in all 5 of my 1911 platform .45 autos.

Gary Wells · August 14, 2011, 08:49 AM

Most and / or all Detonics used FLGRs mainly because they used 2 recoil springs, 1 inside the other one and counter wound in the opposite direction, and without a FLGR, those would / could cause severe binding.

Gary Wells · August 14, 2011, 08:53 AM

Also, none of my statements pertain to anything other than 1911 .45 autos and their clones.

August 8, 2011, 03:32 PM	#1
BUFF Senior Member Join Date: June 27, 2011 Location: Augusta, KS Posts: 226	Guide rod What's the function of a guide rod on semi-auto handguns? I've always had 1911 platforms so I never paid much attention to other platforms. Bought a P11 Kel-Tec with a plastic guide rod. Then I started reading some threads about problems with guide rods. So why do some have them and some don't?

August 8, 2011, 11:24 PM	#3
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,985	Some guns are designed to use a guide rod. It keeps the recoil spring from kinking. The 1911 was designed without a guide rod. The recoil spring is captive and self-guiding. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

August 10, 2011, 08:13 AM	#5
longlane Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2009 Location: South Carolina Posts: 162	P11 Steel Guide Rods Available I've ordered these from both Kel Tec and Midway and installed them on all P11s of friends and family. Why? Tighter lock up, seem to be a bit more accurate from a clamped shooting rest (less sloppy), and they add a tiny bit of weight to the front where it's needed to help a bit with muzzle flip. And you wind up with the original plastic as a spare. __________________ In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. -T.W.

August 10, 2011, 12:07 PM	#6
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,985	Steel guide rods on the P11 will prematurely wear the hole that they ride through in the slide. They are also rigid, and can cause jams in this pistol. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

August 14, 2011, 07:53 AM	#7
Harry Bonar Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Location: In the Vincent, Ohio general area. Posts: 1,804	guide rod Sirs; On 1911s (full size) I will not use a rod! Harry B.

August 8, 2011, 03:49 PM	#2
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I assume you are talking about the so-called "full length guide rod" or FLGR, a current fad with 1911 type pistols. The original design, which went through two World Wars and a bunch of "actions" was perfectly OK, but some folks decided the springs might rub or something, and lo and behold, the FLGR came about. IMHO, the FLGR serves only to aid in extraction. Its sole purpose is to extract money from the sucker's pocket and put it into the pocket of the seller of the FLGR. Some, furthermore, make field stripping the pistol much more difficult and time consuming, again for no real advantage. Worse, it was the FLGR that has given us all those firing pin block safeties. It is almost impossible to fire the original design by dropping it on the muzzle, since the barrel and slide move back and absorb a lot of the inertia. But with an FLGR installed, the slide cannot move, and the full firing pin momentum is available to impact the primer of a chambered round. As I said, the sellers of FLGR's will now have at me, flaming me and calling me names other than Jim

August 10, 2011, 02:29 AM	#4
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,286	I have been tinkering with my Randall Commander clone:70's era.I think the Detonics helped introduce the guide rod.Anyway,this handgun had one.Field strip was more difficult,and some other things weren't quite right.Its a better gun now,without the rod.Solution to a problem that does not exist,I think.

August 14, 2011, 08:44 AM	#8
Gary Wells Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2009 Posts: 180	FLGRs have been around long before the first Detonics Corporation. It has been proven that FLGRs neither help or hurt accuracy. It is impossible for a .45 auto recoil spring to bind & / or kink inside the gun. 2 piece FLGRs are considered worse than a 1 piece FLGR as they can come loose, and require a allen wrench for assembly and disassembly. .45 autos having FLGRs in some cases are easier to assemble and disassemble than those that do not have a FLGR. Depends entirely on the experience of the shooter in which system he has the most time with. FLGRs add a little weight to the muzzle end of the gun, thus reducing recoil tip-up and aiding in back on target time/ FLGRs can and probably will smooth out the cycling a tad. Some FLGRs are available in tungsten, increasing the weight at the muzzle a tad more. Most of the gamers and competition shooters use them in one form or another. They do remove the "twang" sound when cycling your .45 auto by hand if it does so. Some .45 autos have that "Twang" and some don't. that is the the recoil spring rubbing against the frame recoil spring tunnel generally. I do not recommend that people other than myself use FLGRs and / or Shok-buffs. Regardless or what others tell you it is strictly a matter of personal preference. FLGRs & Shok-buffs both have quite a few haters, that's for sure. HTH, IMHO, & FWIW. FWIW, I use FLGRs in all 5 of my 1911 platform .45 autos. Last edited by Gary Wells; August 15, 2011 at 07:39 AM. Reason: statement about smoothing out the cycling

August 14, 2011, 08:49 AM	#9
Gary Wells Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2009 Posts: 180	Most and / or all Detonics used FLGRs mainly because they used 2 recoil springs, 1 inside the other one and counter wound in the opposite direction, and without a FLGR, those would / could cause severe binding.

August 14, 2011, 08:53 AM	#10
Gary Wells Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2009 Posts: 180	Also, none of my statements pertain to anything other than 1911 .45 autos and their clones.