Mosin Nagant M38 Carbine VS M44

[chasep255]

Other than the bayonet what are the differences between these two rifles? Also which do you perfer?

[the rifleer]

Just the bayonet. I like the m44 because its what I have. If I had both, I'd be stuck. They are both great guns, just go with whichever you prefer.

[gyvel]

There are minor differences in the stocks for obvious reasons, and the barrel on the 38 is smaller diameter.

[carguychris]

There are minor differences in the stocks for obvious reasons...

I think a little more explanation is in order...

M44's have a relief channel cut into the top RH edge of the stock along the handguard, for bayonet clearance when it is folded back. Original M38s did not have this relief channel, but almost all recently-imported Mosin-Nagants were arsenal-refurbished after WWII, and many M38s "inherited" a relieved stock from an M44 in the process. Collectors place slightly higher value on M38s with the original non-relieved stock.

Other minor points:

The M38 was almost exclusively a Soviet-produced rifle, but M44s also come in Hungarian, Polish, Romanian, and Chinese flavors, and these carry higher value with collectors because they are more rare than Soviet M44s and most variants of M38s.

In my admittedly somewhat limited experience, it's easier to find M44s with clean bores than M38s. I suspect this is partially because fewer M38s were produced overall, and partially because the Soviets sent the M44 into early retirement upon introduction of the SKS.

[MrWesson]

M38's are generally more valuable vs com block M44's because they stopped importing them awhile ago.

I prefer the look/weight of the M38.

[Don P]

This site is a wealth of info and knowledge, www.7.62X54r.net

[chasep255]

Any of you guys know a good place to get a cheap one?

[WhiskeyTango]

I used to have an m44, but couldn't tell you any more about the differences than has already been pointed out. I bought mine for $58 at a Big 5 Sporting Goods back in the mid '90s, I do belive they still sell them at the smaller sporting goods chains like big 5. I also see alot of them at the gun shows for around $80, depending on the condition of course.

[TX Hunter]

Check out Pat Burns Website Http//:WWW.Gunsnammo.com she has some from time to time. Well more often than not. Good Luck.

[cracked butt]

A lot of the M44s were made postwar and were never used- pretty much new rifles, OTOH M38s tend to have had a lot of use and more often than not, end up on the other end of the wear and tear spectrum.
I would feel comfortable buying a Russian* M44 sight unseen, but I haven't seen too many M38s that I would willingly buy. **

*There have been Romanian and Chinese versions of the M44 imported in the past that tended to be very rough condition.

**I happen to own a romanian M44 and a Russian M38- best examples I could find at local Dunham's stores at the time, both keyhole shots.

[carguychris]

*There have been Romanian and Chinese versions of the M44 imported in the past that tended to be very rough condition.

Footnote to your footnote:

In my experience, the finish on Romanian (and Polish) M44s is not very durable compared to the finish on Soviet M44s. You may find some Romanian and Polish rifles with finish that is simply GONE, but the bore may be better than the finish suggests.

OTOH you're right about Chinese rifles- honestly, every single one I've ever seen was totally shot-out and looked like it had been chained behind a truck and dragged at least 1/2mi down a gravel road.

[BerdanSS]

The M44s I've shot seem more fun to shoot than the full sized M91/30. Can't explain why, they just are. I don't really care for the ones with the side folder bayonet, but for a nice looking Arsenally Refinished one that IS russian
Aim Surplus hase these http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F3M44

[Josh Smith]

I would take the M38 first. I do not like the permanently attached bayonet on the M44, and I consider the mount a PIA too.

Of course, I do accurize the things as they were originally intended to be. They only got their reputation for being inaccurate after the Russians decided that they didn't need 1 or 1.5MOA, but rather 5MOA would do, and while they're at it, why not make it shoot high? Aim at the belt buckle and get COM hits all the way to 350 meters.

Good for conscripted peasants; not so much for American riflemen.

Here's an article on the thing. The M38 and M91/30 lend themselves to this better than the M44, though the M44 could be used.

http://smith-sights.yolasite.com/art...sin-nagant.php

EC

[DWFan]

These appear from time to time...
http://www.mosinnagant.net/ussr/m9159-carbine.asp
Much like the M-38 but actually cut-down M91-30's.

[ejhc11]

There is a third rifle as mentioned by DWFan - M91/59. I was pretty lucky to pick one up at my local Big5 eleven years ago for $90 including DROS.

This M91/59 is suppose to be the most accurate of all the carbines too.

http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/a...11/MN91-59.jpg

http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/a...MN91-59III.jpg

[M38 Mosin Nagant]

Other than the bayonet, there is no difference. I personally prefer the m38 because the bayonet on the m44 feels wierd.

[CLC]

Now are the foreign M44's more rare or is it more rare to find matching numbers on a foreign M44? I would think there would be more of the foreign M44's.

[carguychris]

Now are the foreign M44's more rare or is it more rare to find matching numbers on a foreign M44? I would think there would be more of the foreign M44's.

The foreign M44s are more rare than the Soviet rifles because they generally weren't produced for very long. As they transitioned to the SKS and then the AK, the Soviets distributed M44 production machinery to their client states after WWII as political favors. However, by this time, it was fairly clear to any astute military planner that the days of the bolt-action battle rifle were numbered; the future was semi-auto or select-fire. Most Warsaw Pact countries only built M44s until they were able to sweet-talk their Soviet benefactors into giving them production machinery for the SKS or AK.

Most foreign M44s I've seen had matching numbers. I attribute this to the fact that most of these rifles weren't arsenal-refurbished like the Soviet guns, and many were probably used by reserve troops and border guards who seldom fired their rifles. No use = no bolt wear = no need to substitute a bolt from another gun.

The exception are Chinese rifles; AFAIK these have never been officially imported in large quantities like the Eastern European guns. Most of the Chinese guns I've seen were brought into the USA one at a time after being taken from the hands of a dead VC. As stated above, most are in horrid shape. Curiously, I've seen several with no visible bolt and mag floorplate numbers.

[Idahoser]

I got a really nice M38 that was made in 1944 from Aim Surplus. Even had the correct stock with no bayonet relief.
That, and a nice K31 with the name tag, were the only things I ever used my C&R for. This was maybe 2005. I think I paid $50 for the Mosin and $80 for the K31, something like that. Wish I'd have got more of that GP11 when it was cheap by the case.

[Ignition Override]

chasep255:
You might regret buying a cheap MN 44.

Although the only ammo I bought/used was Bulgarian surplus x54R, the 'groups' (swarms of bumble bees) at 50 yards-with the bayonet extended-were very large, about 6" or more.

Some of this was due to my lack of any advanced skills.

[Bamashooter]

My 91/59 is a good shooter and of the 3 I have its a very light rifle.

[cracked butt]

The exception are Chinese rifles; AFAIK these have never been officially imported in large quantities like the Eastern European guns. Most of the Chinese guns I've seen were brought into the USA one at a time after being taken from the hands of a dead VC.

I remember an importer brought a mess of Chinese Type 53s a few years ago and was selling them off for around $40/ea. From the reviews I read about them, a few got decent shooters and the rest were about what you'd expect from a $40 rifle.

[zombieslayer]

I like the 38 better, it feels handier.
I haven't seen a 44 or 38 with a decent bore for sale in a few years. Last 44 I saw was shot out bad and had a $150 sticker.

[KLRANGL]

M38 for sure. My collection is a WW2 collection, and very few M44s actually saw service in the war. I would consider a '43 date coded M44 if I ran across one.

[Volucris]

Look on Gunbroker, Simpsons Ltd in Illinois, and various private collections such as on SurplusRifle Forums. I've had a Mosin Nagant 91/30 in the past and sold it because it's such a crude and generally uninteresting rifle. They also cost far too much these days especially since ammo is drying up.