What 30 cal for Elk?

[Big Dave]

Shucks, I need a new rifle. I thought my .270 would be all I would ever need and never planned on hunting anything larger than axis deer.

Photo from a recent hunt on Molokai, Hawaii.



Looks like I'll be going on a elk hunting trip later this year in Northeastern New Mexico.

This is what the guide recommends.

AMMUNITION- bring the right size bullet to take down an elk. I strongly recommend a 30 caliber rifle or larger and at least a 180 grain bullet. Shot placement is crucial. If you don’t knock em down I want a bullet big enough to leave a good blood trail.

So, following the above recommendation, what should I be looking at? Thanks for your help,
Dave

[allaroundhunter]

Honestly, in my opinion the .270 is perfectly capable with the right bullet. Nobles partitions or Barnes TTSX bullets would each perform very well. However, if you want to follow the guide's advice then go for something like a .30-06 loaded with one of the two aforementioned bullets. You could also go with a .300 Win Mag, or .300 winchester short mag (great choice).

[Jimro]

Elk aren't bulletproof. Your 274 caliber bullets are only 0.034" smaller than a 308 caliber bullet.

If you use a 150gr bullet, Swift A-Frame, Win FailSafe, Nosler Partition, there is no reason you should not have full confidence in your current setup.

However, if you need an excuse to get another rifle, then by all means get another rifle. Jack O'Connor's "other rifle" was a 30-06, and he used it whenever he thought his beloved 270 Win wasn't enough rifle.

If you do want a new rifle, anything 308 Winchester or bigger will do, no particular need for a magnum but a lot of people seem convinced elk require magnums. Personally I'd shop around for a something gently used, and if it fit my body good enough I'd take it home with me.

Jimro

[hoghunter]

I know somebody who takes an elk every year with a .270 with 150 grain winchester super-x.

[Scorch]

Many, many elk every year don't know that a 270 can't kill them, so they peaceably go home with the hunters. A 150 gr 270 bullet will down any elk that ever walked the planet. Your rifle may not shoot them particularly well, so you may need a different rifle, but a 270 will kill elk dead dead dead.

[jmr40]

Agreed, you don't NEED another rifle. With todays better bullets a 270 is darn near ideal. If you just WANT another rifle in .30 cal I'd buy a 300 WSM. A 30-06 just doesn't offer any real advantage over your 270, the 300 WSM is a small step up. It will give you a small advantage in effective range, but your 270 with quality bullets will easily take elk.

[PawPaw]

Agreed, you don't need a .30 cal rifle. The .270 is perfectly sufficient to the job.

If you want a .30 caliber rifle, almost any will do. Get close enough and slip the bullet into the heart/lung and the animal will blow pink foam out of his nose and fall over. The .30-30, .308, .300 Savage have all taken elk.

[ligonierbill]

I'd talk to the guide. The thing your .270 has going for it is your familiarity - you'll probably shoot better with it than any new rifle. There are other guides, and many will agree with my last statement. That said, if you want a new rifle, let me offer a different opinion. Nothing wrong with the .300 WSM, and my experience (eastern Idaho) is that the .300 Win Mag is very popular. But if you really want to extend your capability, consider the .338 Win Mag. I do not agree with the "king of the elk rifles" designation, it's a bit of overkill. But it fills the bill for big bears and other critters you may not want to tackle with the .270. Yeah, it kicks. So do the .300 Mags. Just a thought. And yes, I shoot one.

[Wyosmith]

I have been hunting elk nearly every year since I was 16, and I am 57 now. I have used the 270 with 150 grain Remington and Nosler Partitions one and off for all this time. In 41 years of elk hunting and guiding hunters I have never seen a 270 used with the right bullet that was in any way “wanting’ for elk.

However, if you insist on a 30, the old 30-06 is probably the best all around caliber you can get. I know, I know…..all the 300 mags get the attention of the magazine writers.

However I would point out a few facts here.

The 300 Weatherby will start a 180 grain bullet at 3100 FPS and the 06 will “only” drive it at 2700. Ok that all true.

However let’s look at what the Weatherby is really doing where the elk is, say at 150 years.
At the range the Weatherby is going the same speed as the 30-06 is at the muzzle. So it’s a very safe statement to say the 300 Weatherby is the same as a 30-06 with an extra 150 yards of range.

So you give up a great deal of bore life, shoot ammo that costs over 2X as much, gain 50% more recoil, carry 2 less rounds in the magazine and a barrel that is 4 inches longer to get that extra 150 yards. Is that a good trade? For some it is, and for others it’s not. That’s not something another man can decide for you. You need to make that decision.

Me….when I carry a 30-06 I like to use it with 200 and 220 grain bullets and I zero at 200 yards. I hunt in heavy timber so I have never made a long shot on an elk in my life. In all the elk I have killed the longest shot I ever made was about 175 yards, and all the rest were at 60 or less (yes, 60, not 160)

Many men hunt elk in open canyons and they do make long shots. I just don’t like to get out there with them because that’s where “everybody hunts” and I like being more alone when I hunt, so I go where most others don’t like to go and I do very well that way.

Anyway, that’s how I see things. My advice is based in facts, not theory. But there are many that would disagree and they also have valid points, so get all the info you can and then make a decision.

[AllenJ]

So, following the above recommendation, what should I be looking at?

Much of this comes down to you. Are you recoil shy? If so the 30-06 may be your best choice. If not, take a look at the 300 WSM and 300 Winchester Mag. They are both a lot of cartridge and have the recoil to prove it.

I would talk to the guide before buying anything though. As stated above the 270, with the right bullets, is more than capable of taking elk at very respectable ranges.

[Big Dave]

Hey, thanks for the input guys. Lots to look into.

I'm not sure what I'll do...but I'll give an update when I figure it out.

Take care,
Dave

[Nathan]

I would call your guide and ask about your 270 Win with a good bullet. If he balks at this, ask why...


The typical why's I've heard are shooting over 500 yards, shooting and hitting poorly when their running, knock down power, tough hide....

If he uses those excuses for needing a 300 mag, you need a new guide. The purpose of a guide is to put you within 200 yards, on a stable rest, of a record(or large) bull. That I'd guiding. Asking you to shoot 400 - 600 yards at walking or running Elk is crap, frankly, but I know some do!

[JD0x0]

Hey guess what? A 180 grain .30 cal has a lower sectional density than a 150 grain .277 cal. If you don't think that's enough then all you need to do is handload a 180 grain .277 cal which has a huge sectional density, and hangs with the heavier .338, .308, and .35 bullets.

.270 Winchester is more than enough for Elk. You can show your guide the SD numbers which prove that the .270 bullets have comparable or better Sectional Densities than the more 'common' 'Elk cartridges'

.277" (.270) 140 grain, SD .261
.277" (.270) 150 grain, SD .279
.308" (7.62mm) 180 grain, SD .271
.323" (8mm) 200 grain, SD .274
.338" (.338) 225 grain, SD .281
.358" (.35) 250 grain, SD .279
.375" (.375) 270 grain, SD .274
.458" (.45) 400 grain, SD .272

The Woodleigh 180 grain .277 bullet has a SD of .334

.308" (7.62mm) 220 grain, SD .331
.323" (8mm) 220 grain, SD .301
.338" (.338) 250 grain, SD .313
.366" (9.3mm) 286 grain, SD .305
.375" (.375) 300 grain, SD .305
.416" (.416) 400 grain, SD .330

[Paul B.]

Northestern NM eh. Why do I get the feeling you'll be hunting out of Raton NM. I've done two cow elk cull hunts out of Raton and was successful both times. Dunno if you're doing a cow hunt or for a bull but the rilfe I used both times was a custom Mauser in .35 Whelen. Worked just fine.
SS the others have said, your .270 should work just fine. Just use a good 150or maybe a 160 gr. bullet and go kill an elk. I've booked again for next Janusary to do another cull hunt and while I'll most likely take the .35 Whelen again, I've been doing some load work with a custom .280 Rem. and custom 30-06 as well.
Be advised, especially if you're doing a later season hunt that the elk will be spooky and shots could very easily be way out yonder at running animals.
My first elk on that ranch in 2010 was shot at 150 yards quartering away to the left and she was hauling the mail. Shot took her just behind the short ribs and exited between the neck and right shoulder. She dropped like a rock. In2012 my hunting partner had a running shot we later lasered at 317 yards. My elk was shot standing broadside t an eastimated 325 to 350 yards. I held for a middle of the chest lung shot and down she went. When we got to the butcher shop, we found that I'd broken her neck at the base of the skull. I opined that my scope had gone bad as I'd called the shot as being spot on. A few days after I'd gotten home, the scope proved to be bad and was sent back to Leupold. When it got back, the invoice state that they'd literally replaced all the gut in that scope. THat shot on that elk has to be the luckiest shot I've ever made.
Frankly, and as you can see I speak from experience, take a back up rifle or at least a back up scope on that hunt. I had the rifle but it was back at the motel.
Are you going with an outfitter or is this a DIY hunt? Private or public land hunt?
Paul B.

[doofus47]

I use a 30-06 with 165 grain bullets when I'm elk hunting, but if you already have a 270 you've got enough rifle. Moreover, if you're already used to your 270, I would advise you to NOT re-invent the wheel, just up the bullet type/weight a bit.

[taylorce1]

4 out of 5 cow elk all agree the .270 hammers them dead, the one dissenter fell to a .30-06. For a .30 cal elk rifle I'd be happy with a .300 Savage, .308 Win, or .30-06 all are capable of downing elk. However with a .270 you don't need a new elk rifle, but elk hunting is a good reason to want one.

[Big Dave]

Thanks for the replies.

It's on private land with a guide. Once everything is settled I'll be happy to post the details. From what I've read both the guide and hunting are excellent.

That would be great if I could use my .270. If not, I'd probably jump on a 30-06. The bigger magnums are a little intimidating at this point.

Thanks,
Dave

[JD0x0]

That would be great if I could use my .270. If not, I'd probably jump on a 30-06. The bigger magnums are a little intimidating at this point.

Why can't you?
The 06' can't harvest game any better than the .270
If the .270 is having trouble taking something down, the 06' wont be able to do it much better. You'd need a bullet heavier than 220 grains in the .308 to have a better sectional density than a 180 grain in .270

I think people get too hung up on caliber size. It's been proven that a 160 grain 6.5mm or .264 caliber can harvest Elk very effectively. This is because heavy for caliber bullets tend to have higher SD's which leads to better penetration through thick hides, bones, etc.
it doesn't really matter that the bullet is .038'' smaller if it expands to over .64 caliber and punches a fist sized hole or bigger out the opposite side of the elk. It doesn't really matter what bullet it is, If the bullet does that, and the shot was placed well, the animal will very likely drop.

[Big Dave]

Hi,

Who knows, maybe the guide will be fine with the .270. I'm just going off what he recommends.

AMMUNITION- bring the right size bullet to take down an elk. I strongly recommend a 30 caliber rifle or larger and at least a 180 grain bullet. Shot placement is crucial. If you don’t knock em down I want a bullet big enough to leave a good blood trail.

I don't know enough to even have an opinion or try to convince him otherwise.

So, what you are saying is I'd be better off with a .308 than a 30-06?

A second rifle would be more useful as a back up deer gun to loan to visiting friend / family since we can hunt year round. I'm not sure if I'll have the opportunity to go Elk hunting again.

Thanks,
Dave

[allaroundhunter]

Dave, how well do you shoot your .270?

[taylorce1]

I wouldn't worry about what the guide's recommendation, because it is just that. Go by what the hunting regulations in NM say you can use, that is all you need to really worry about. I used the 150 grain Nosler Partition to kill all my elk in my .270, however I wouldn't be afraid with any 130-140 grain Partition, TSX, GMX, E-Tip, or bonded core bullet.


If the guide is doing his job properly he is going to take you out shooting before you even go hunting. He'll make sure that your rifle is zeroed and he'll get a feel for what kind of shot you're going to be able to make. As long as you show up and your rifle and you are shooting well, that will make the guides job easier.

You have some time to get things in order, just spend your money on practice rather than a new rifle. I'll bet you'll be eating elk steaks back home if you take the .270. Just don't sweat the small stuff, work on accurate shooting from field positions and getting in really good shape since it looks like you are close to sea level and altitude is no joke.

[GeauxTide]

If you're shooting factory, .270. If you reload, a 180gr Partition at 2800 (22" barrel) in the '06 has more momentum than a 150gr 270. It will also shoot through, leaving a good blood trail, on chest shots.

[Big Dave]

Thanks guys. Regarding my shooting ability.

I'm new to hunting and high power rifles. I've only been on 3 deer hunts.

I don't have the opportunity to shoot long distances. So, with paper punching I'm only going out to 100 yards. I would not want to take a shot that took very much correction.

Under controlled situations like at the range, where I can take my time, I'm a better than average shot. I started shooting small bore rifle silhouette last year to improve my rifle skills for hunting. Through daily practice I have won most of the local matches over the last 6 months. I'm kind of losing interest in that since I've reached my goal of improving my offhand skills. And, I have not found that skill to transfer over to hunting.

The type of hunting we have done lately is quite rushed. There is little time to get set up with a rest / tripod....and unfortunately I've had a couple of bad shots that I'm still bummed about. The little buck in the photo was shot about 180 yards out. My partner had shot and I was down the hill. The deer were coming my way and that one slowed down long enough for me to get a shot. I did not have time to set up a tripod. I sat on a rock and balanced my elbows on my knees... Fortunately it was a good shot...but it also could have been bad.

Long answer... if I have time to set up then I would be very confident in my ability. If the shot is rushed, and I'm in a funky position then my success drops.

Take care,
Dave

[Jimro]

Big Dave,

Then definitely get some 150gr premium loads for your 270 and zero that load 2.5 inches high at 100. The boilermaker on an elk is about a 14" circle.

Winchester lists three commercial loads suitable for Elk, two of them are 150gr loads. Federal Premium has a 150gr Partition option.

With these loads, zero'd 2.5 inches high at 100, you can ignore drop out to about 300 yards (would need your exact load data to calculate precisely).

Don't rush your shots, hunting is supposed to be enjoyable, so enjoy it. If you let a few bad shots pass, so what? You'll have the time of your life no matter what.

Jimro

[Big Dave]

Don't rush your shots, hunting is supposed to be enjoyable, so enjoy it. If you let a few bad shots pass, so what? You'll have the time of your life no matter what.

Amen brother.