Lights on your pistols...?

[Ruthless4christ]

I would much rather night vision with a infered laser,but most people can't afford that. I have myself used a surefire on my shotgun several times in standoffs and have only ever had positive reactions. HAnds go up to shield hte eyes, and target is for a moment stunned. you just have to know when to and when not to use them.

[ActivShootr]

easyG has a good point: "If you can't see the BG then you have no way of knowing the light will be in his eyes when you turn it on..." you are going to have to turn on your light and search unless you wait for him to expose his position. But if its so dark you cant see him, chances are its too dark for him to see you and too dark for either of you to see where you are going.

Who in here has had any formal weapon/flashlight training?

[PPGMD]

Who in here has had any formal weapon/flashlight training?

Depends on what you consider formal, I did a class taught by Surefire Instructor, he did an abbreviated version of the 2 day class he did for the deputies.

His opinion of weapon mounted light as that they have their uses, but he prefers separate lights, for searching.

[jonjon1885]

one good reason to have the tac light.... the legal aftermath of defending yourself. light = that you KNEW what you were shooting at and lawyers can't weasel their way to you in prison.

[hottbarrell]

No lights 4 me,it gives the BG who's eyes are adjusted a point of aim.The lights stay on in the garage for a reason roaches and thieves hate them,the garage is 40 yds behind the house,if the dogs alert to something,(they pretty much ignore the wildlife)I shut off the main power to the backyard and proceed behind them,usually pitch black with the trees,then I have the advantage,Ive chased intruders off three times in 25yrs,only fired once,peppered the back of a pickup,backed up to the fence which they cut down to make thieving easier,I checked every early 70's p/up I saw for the next few years 4 buckshot marks. Now, in a totally unfamilliar surroundings which LEO's encounter constantly,there neccessary,an on off technique would be the best and safest you guys are all underpaid IMO. P99er out.

[easyG]

one good reason to have the tac light.... the legal aftermath of defending yourself. light = that you KNEW what you were shooting at and lawyers can't weasel their way to you in prison.

Or it can be used against you....

"You had a light on your pistol, right?"
"So you KNEW that the victim was not pointing his pistol at you and posed no immediate threat to you, right?"
"And you KNEW that the victim was blinded by your light, right"
"So you shot a BLIND MAN, right!"
"YOU BLINDED HIM AND THEN SHOT HIM!"

[mattro]

I have had formal training with lights / handgun self defense. Our Gunsite instructor taught one whole evening with lights. Our instructor preferred a seperate light, not attached to the gun. Much more versatile for searching around doors and corners, and you can hold the light away from the gun, taking attention off your com.

[gordo_gun_guy]

Who in here has had any formal weapon/flashlight training?

Yup. And I even took a civilian class once, too.

From the civilian class, most drills included a common theme:

Light on
Look/ID
Light off
Move
Light on
Shoot
Light off
Repeat

Drills culminated in a dark shoothouse scenario with no foreknowledge of the shoot/no shoot target locations. Pretty eye opening.

In the same, class we had the good fortune to be far in the stix (Princeton, LA) on a cloudy night, so we did the following excercise for perspective:

Range lights on, 5 rds slowfire into IDPA target at 7 yards. Without moving, same drill with range lights off (pitch black except for muzzle flashes!). Third set, repeat with range lights off but with tactical lights.

First set, everyone chewed the center out. Dark set, everyone with night sights shot great groups, but not necessarily in the center of the target! The guy without night sights actually hit once, because he was able to catch a front sight picture with illumination from our muzzle flashes. With tactical lights, everyone connected; because it was slow fire at close range we didn't see any difference between hand held and rail mounted group sizes.

The dark drill made me a believer in night sights and tactical lights. It also reinforced the importance for the light in identifying targets. Maybe you could identify a bad guy in dim light and shoot him ONCE with night sights and no flashlight; after the muzzle flashes start, you can still see tritium sights fine, but you're BSing if you think you could tell that those night sights are still lined up on a bad guy vs your kid in a dynamic setting--your night vision will be toast!

BTW, this course was before I owned a rail light (which of course, was available for purchase at the course:barf; I thought I was doing great with my 6P surefire in a Harries grip--until my first mag change! Easier gunhandling + better 2-handed shooting grip convinced me to use a mounted light for HD.

No lights 4 me,it gives the BG who's eyes are adjusted a point of aim.

Look (dazzle), then MOVE, then illuminate again while you shoot. (Not to be sarcastic, but the MOVE part is important for daylight shooting, too.)

Any LEO's out there use lights in force-on-force Simunitions type training to verify the efficacy of this?

I would much rather night vision with a infered laser,but most people can't afford that.

If I could afford it, I'd use it for coyote hunting but not for HD! Yes, slapping the trigger when the death dot is on the the target in the NODs is fast as all get out, but there's too much downside in two areas. First, narrowed field of view, which is compensated for at work with TEAM coverage. Second, a potentially fatal delay when they wash out due to, say, your panicked kid turning the lights on. Oh yeah, BTW the green screen itself kills your night vision, so you'll not be adapted. Do you want to waste seconds putting NODs on when you hear the glass breaking, or just grab one pistol/12ga with a light on it and be ready to rock?

I did a class taught by Surefire Instructor....His opinion of weapon mounted light as that they have their uses, but he prefers separate lights, for searching.

+1, especially when the situation is not one of defined hostility. However, doesn't Surfire sell weapons lights AND sperate search lights. Hmmm

[Trinity-Nine]

With regards to muzzle flash diminishing your eyes' low light adjustment: I have been told by a Brinks security guard that keeping one eye closed while you pull the trigger, then reopening it, keeps that particular eye's low-light sensitivity. This buys you some time while the other eye readjusts. Not sure how practical this is in a real world situation.

[Trinity-Nine]

"MyXD40"... good choice on the Lasermax... have you tested for accuracy?

[STAGE 2]

Yes.

My nightstand pistol has a light. As someone previously pointed out, theres no reason not to have one since theres nothing that mandates I turn it on.

I'm a firm believer in using my surroundings to my advantage. Since I know my house better than any B&E artist I will be creeping quietly along to my coffee table turned pillbox and waiting for him to enter the kill zone.

Of course I'm also a firm believer in having all sorts of tools at my disposal. That means that when this unfortunate soul does lumber into the kill zone I have the option of lighting him up rather than only being able to shout out from cover.

[DonR101395]

Yes on my HD guns. 24/7 I also have a 60 lumen hand held light as well. I do formal training twice a year and practice every couple months in between shooting a low light course of fire. Hand held for searching, weapons mounted for engaging. Situational dependent YMMV.

[EskrimadoR]

Ditto on what Michael Anthony said.

[MyXD40]

"MyXD40"... good choice on the Lasermax... have you tested for accuracy?

Trinity-Nine: I actually just bought it the other day. When I get it installed/used I'll be sure to report back!

[Doggieman]

If I were going to sweep an unknown building, you bet I'd bring a flashlight. And 15 other guys.

If I were defending myself in my own place, probably not.

Cuz:
1) I've been asleep in the dark, my eyes are at their most sensitive. Plus I have night lights around the house and can see very well even with no other lights on.
2) Nobody lives with me and nobody I know would be in my place without telling me first. Therefore any "moving shadow" would be "something I would want to destroy."
3) Ditto with regard to my personal fear that flashlights give away positions. In high school I used to play paintball. Once we did it at night and one dude decided to mount a flashlight on his gun. We could tell where he was whenever he turned it on.

[MyXD40]

this thread raises a good topic, about defending yourself at home, at night.

Now, you're in your house, someone fumbling downstairs..both of you guys eyes are already adjusted to the low light..wouldn't it be to your advantage to use a bright light to blind him before he could get a chance to shoot you?

now honestly, in that kind of situation, you wont have moments to sit there and fiddle around. Yeah you turn your light on, and it blinds him, are you just going to stand there and wait for him to adjust so he can shoot you? NO you'll turn it on, ID him to make sure it's not the old crazy man down the street who just stumbled in your house, then pop him. Simple enough.

Anyone who just shoots at a person without a proper ID first, is a retard. And more than anything, could get youself in a lot of trouble.

Now this reply doesn't focus on firearm mounted lights, but also handheld flashlights too

[Thumper]

If you do force on force training, you know that if you have two walk into a dark room, the guy with a light on his gun wins, all else being equal.

Believe it or not, for the past two years, I've had a light on my CARRY gun.

Really is just as comfortable as the gun by itself and I conceal it daily.

[Walter]

Thumper If you do force on force training, you know that if you have two walk into a dark room, the guy with a light on his gun wins, all else being equal.

I've been in enough seriously dark ambush situations to know that I don't want
"all else being equal". I want any advantage I can get.

I had a tac light on my HD gun for a while, but had second thoughts. Afterall, I know my house better than the SOB breaking in. I'll use the darkness to my advantage.

That is an advantage I get for free. I'll take it. Pistol in my right hand,
flashlight in my left.

Walter

[easyG]

NO you'll turn it on, ID him to make sure it's not the old crazy man down the street who just stumbled in your house, then pop him. Simple enough.

Anyone who just shoots at a person without a proper ID first, is a retard.

You don't think that you should shoot an "old crazy man" who just stumbles in to your home at night?

Do you lock your doors at night?

I do.
And no "old crazy man is" just going to stumble in to my home.
And if he does then he's definitely getting shot!
You don't sneak in to another man's home unless you're up to no good.
And doing so is just asking to be killed.

Do you have friends who come over unannounced, sneak in to your home, and wait downstairs with all the lights off?

I'll bet not!

[Silentarmy]

MyXD40
I have the Lasermax on my Glock 36 (new pulsing model) and had the old (constant on) on my 2nd Gen Glock 21 and Glock 20! I have been Flamed by people here for owning such a "gimmick" and I certainly admit that in a Self defense situation I would not even think of taking the time to activate it. However, it is a pretty neat accessory and very accurate! Not visible in daylight beyond a few yds but in low/no light, it would certainly cause me to re-think my actions as a Perp! Anyone who would critisize either has never tried it or is pissed at the world because you can afford a toy that cost nearly as much as your gun and he Cannot!
I was trained as LEO to use separate light (stremlight Stinger) to shoot with and prefer this over nite sights. I do have a "nightstand gun" which is a Glock 22 with Streamlight M6 tac light on the rail.

[Tanzer]

Or it can be used against you....

"You had a light on your pistol, right?"
"So you KNEW that the victim was not pointing his pistol at you and posed no immediate threat to you, right?"
"And you KNEW that the victim was blinded by your light, right"
"So you shot a BLIND MAN, right!"
"YOU BLINDED HIM AND THEN SHOT HIM!"

Great point. You're paying attention!

[Thumper]

Hahah...yeah, paying attention to Mas Ayoob's "Case Number 3."

A good shoot is a good shoot. Using a light to identify your target isn't going to land you in jail, ever.

[Silentarmy]

EasyG
You sir, scare me!

Anyone who does not look at the Moral (novel concept) as well as legal issues involved in a SD shooting should Not be allowed to own/carry/touch/read about/look at pictures of/ Firearms!
Less than a yr ago, after my brother left for work early in the morning and left the door unlocked (its locked at night) My Mother awoke to a disoriented female in her early 20's folding the clothes on the foot of their bed so she could get in bed! My mother woke my father who escorted this girl to the front door as my mom called 911. This girl was high on something and honestly thought she was in her own home! I suppose every "crazy old guy" or stoned young woman should be greeted with a hail of lead as "surely they are up to no good"
Next time you fill out that transfer form and get to the part about "have you ever been judged Mentally incompetent" Stop! Think! and thank God that they haven't found you yet!

[easyG]

I suppose every "crazy old guy" or stoned young woman should be greeted with a hail of lead as "surely they are up to no good"

Hold on there just a moment....
Keep everthing I say in proper context.

We are discussing lights on guns.
And we are discussing the pros and cons of such lights when encountering an intruder, at night, in the dark, in your own home.

So, you spot-light the intruder and then say "Oh, it's just the old crazy guy from down the street. He's probably just hungry....that's why he broke in to my home and decided to keep the lights off. Here old crazy man, let me make you a ham sandwich."

It must be nice on your world where intruders who break-and-enter into your home are really just friends you haven't met yet.

Next time you fill out that transfer form and get to the part about "have you ever been judged Mentally incompetent" Stop! Think! and thank God that they haven't found you yet!

Anyone who thinks that "old crazy men" are not dangerous is truely mentally incompetent.

[easyG]

Anyone who does not look at the Moral (novel concept) as well as legal issues involved in a SD shooting should Not be allowed to own/carry/touch/read about/look at pictures of/ Firearms!

Sooo, anyone who does not share your idea of morality should not have a firearm???
So much for living in the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave.

Less than a yr ago, after my brother left for work early in the morning and left the door unlocked (its locked at night)

Very stupid of him IMO.

My Mother awoke to a disoriented female in her early 20's folding the clothes on the foot of their bed so she could get in bed!

Your mother is a very lucky woman.
She could have awoke to a young disoriented female with a butcher's knife who thought your mother was a pig ready for the slaughter!