22 wmr semi-auto rifle - Page 2

Evil Monkey · November 15, 2011, 11:44 PM

Quote:

I also disagree with evil monkey's assertion that the 22mag is a poor choice for an SD round

22wmr from a pistol is really no different than 22lr. The HP's never expand either. It's garbage.

From a rifle, 22wmr is certainly better from an energy standpoint, but terminally, once again it's trash. HP's hasve a bad tendency to fragmentate not be able to penetrate deep enough. FBI protocol ballistics gel shows a usual 5-7 inches of penetration instead of the minimum of 12 inches.

You can't trust neither 22lr or 22wmr for defense.....but the 22wmr is still better than the 22useless, I mean 22lr.

Bamashooter · November 15, 2011, 11:52 PM

Evil monkey you should get educated to the facts before you come here spewing this drivel. The only thing thats trash is your posts.

Evil Monkey · November 16, 2011, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Evil monkey you should get educated to the facts before you come here spewing this drivel.

please point out where am I wrong.

Bamashooter · November 16, 2011, 12:39 AM

Pick a post. There are tons of stories out there on the world wide web that proves the .22lr is anything but useless.

You say the .45acp is dying out and I say you are wrong again. Do you have any idea how much better the .45acp is compared to the .40S&W? Even if its not, there are millions of 1911 owners out there who will be needing ammo for many decades to come, myself included.

I dont really care what your hangup with the .22lr is but to say its useless is an ignorant statement to say the least.

22-rimfire · November 16, 2011, 12:27 PM

Evil Monkey, I think you should stick with the 22 WMR. You apparently might be a member of the 10's of thousands of 22 Mag owners versus the millions of owners of 22 rifles and handguns. I like the 22 Mag myself, and believe it to be a great general purpose rifle for the woods when you want or need something a bit more powerful than the 22LR.

So what 22 mag firearms do you actually own? What was your suggestion to the OP again after all the 22LR, 45ACP, 380ACP thread diversions started? Oh..., you didn't make one, how interesting? Of course there is the YouTube link (Keltec). I think you're a troll on this thread.

hornetguy · November 16, 2011, 01:17 PM

Quote:

please point out where am I wrong.

Check ballistics of a .22 mag handgun versus a .22 lr handgun. The mag from a handgun will get ballistics similar to a lr from a rifle.

You can spout your opinions all day long, but the hard fast DATA proves you wrong.

Nothing wrong with spouting your opinions... I do it frequently. Just don't try to pass your opinions off as "facts".

Evil Monkey · November 16, 2011, 03:37 PM

Quote:

The mag from a handgun will get ballistics similar to a lr from a rifle

but the terminal effects are no different.

please observe how the penetration and overall tissue disruption is no different from one another.

22lr loads from rifles.....
http://brassfetcher.com/var22lrrifle.html
http://brassfetcher.com/Federal%2036...0Point%20.html
http://brassfetcher.com/aguila.html
http://brassfetcher.com/CCI%20Veloci...Dot%20JHP.html

22wmr from a pistol
http://brassfetcher.com/22%20Magnum%...-Mag%20HP.html
http://brassfetcher.com/22%20Magnum%...Mag%20JHP.html

also note the lousy penetration of 22wmr from a rifle. Only the winchesters were decent and I still don't trust them.
http://brassfetcher.com/22MagnumVariousRifle.html

OkieGentleman · November 18, 2011, 09:14 AM

I think I have settled on what I want using the advice you gentlemen have given. I am looking for a rifle my little petite wife can handle if need be. The Kel Tec RMR 30 looks perfect, 4 lbs, 30 round clip with a laser sightshould be just what I need. Kel Tec says the rifle is scheduled for production the summer of 2012 so I will wait.

I figure with a laser sight, a 30 round clip in 22 WMR and a scared red head that should be all of the backup I would need. If she shoots an intruder 10 or 12 times with a 22 WMR he probably decide to go home. LOL

Thank You for your input and I hope a Flame War has not started.

doceaux · November 18, 2011, 01:51 PM

Got 2 of these that work and shoot fine. Anymore of these out there?

Gehrhard · November 24, 2011, 02:55 PM

Evil Monkey is quite incorrect that "22wmr from a pistol is really no different than 22lr."

Factoid: .22 Mag in a 6" pistol is more powerful than ANY .22 LR from any RIFLE, no less pistol!

B.L.E. · November 24, 2011, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Factoid: .22 Mag in a 6" pistol is more powerful than ANY .22 LR from any RIFLE, no less pistol!

I agree. In fact, a .22 high velocidy lr out of a 6" pistol is more powerful than a .22 standard velocity lr out of a rifle. I have chronographed them.

.22 magnum will never be as inexpensive as .22lr, no matter how popular they become for the simple reason that jacketed bullets are used in them.
40 grain jacketed bullets for reloading centerfire .22's cost $15-20 per 100, that's just the jacketed bullet, not the case, primer, gunpowder, etc.

The .17 rimfires will also never be as cheap as .22 lr for the same reason.

Mobuck · November 24, 2011, 06:57 PM

Back in the 1980's I tried the 22mag for close range coyote hunting. First rifle was a Marlin tube fed which had serious feeding problems. Second was an H&R semiauto which worked but did not produce satisfactory accuracy(3-4" @ 100 yards)with the ammo available at that time. I finally gave up on it and traded it in on a Mini14(stiil not accurate enough) and then gave up on the semiauto until the AR fad began.
I found the 22mag sufficient to kill coyotes @150 yards with a body hit using HP ammo and my longest measured kill was 185 yards. Mostly I used the 22 mag on running shots fairly close to the hounds since it was less likely to put the dogs off trail. About any hit was good enough with the dogs on track since they would bay the cripple sooner or later.

Gehrhard · November 24, 2011, 08:45 PM

.22 Mag is sometimes referred to as the 125 yard round. First another factoid:

at 100 yards the velocity is the same as a .22 LR at the muzzle!

But because the bullets are flat points (excpet V-Max are they?) the speed starts to drop off precipitously at 125 yards, not that it won't continue to do damage but it ain't no spitzer!

Evil Monkey · November 24, 2011, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Evil Monkey is quite incorrect that "22wmr from a pistol is really no different than 22lr.

I already posted information that shows the penetration and tissue disruption is the same.

The energy generated doesn't mean a thing.

You guys can spin it any way you want but the information has already been posted and it can't be denied.

L_Killkenny · November 25, 2011, 11:37 AM

Bunch of mis-information here. Gotta love the internet world and old myths.

First off, you can reload .223 centerfire for less than .22M. You can get JSP's from midsouth for just over 9 cents each, add 3 cents for a primer, using moderate loads .223 brass will last a long time and is cheap to begin with and then add a couple pennies worth of powder.

Next, .22M from a handgun IS pretty much the same as a .22lr from a rifle. Of coarse it depends on which .22lr load you compare it too. But of coarse, most shooters have a better chance of good shot placement with a rifle than a handgun so even though power is the same, capabilities go to a .22lr rifle. .22m handgun is still just a short range bunny gun.

Next, a .22M at 100 yards isn't more powerful than a .22lr at the muzzle. It's been awhile since I've run the numbers but IIRC a Velocitor is about 75% of a 40gr .22M at 100 yards. I can also tell you that a Velocitor at 50 yards is equal to a MiniMag at the barrel energy wise and I have never noticed a discernable difference in reaction or damage from raccoons between the Velocitor and a .22M. Obviously load selection makes a big difference with the .22lr but the gap is closed considerably since the days of standard velocity or even high velocity .22lrs.

Basically, .22lr ammo cost $1.50- $7/50 as compared to .22M ammo that cost from $9-11/50. What do you get for that extra coin for another gun and ammo? About another 50 yards is it. You're call whether it's worth it.

Don't even think about comparing a .22M to a centerfire. Even the baby centerfires like the .22 Hornet smoke it and centerfires can be loaded for the same cost or less.

LK

PetahW · November 26, 2011, 10:58 AM

Texas High Standard, under the AMT marque, has a detachable magazine (clip) .22 Mag autoloader, that's inexpensive & accurate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FI8q...ture=fvwp&NR=1

.

C7AR15 · November 26, 2011, 03:46 PM

I have a Remington 597 Semi-auto in .22WMR and it works great. I can shoot damn near 1 MOA (1" @ 100YDS) with cheap Winchester ammo.
It is my favorite gun for shooting gophers in Saskatewan Range 0-100 +
and it hits them hard, much much harder than any .22 LR will do.

My friend bought the new CZ .22WMR (semi) and had a lot of trouble with it. Had to go to the gunsmith to get it working. $$
But that was the first year of production- I'm sure CZ would fix any dificiences by now.

PS I do not own a .22 rifle !!! But do have 5 rimfire guns !!??

Go buy something, new toys are always good for morale. JD

PetahW · November 26, 2011, 03:53 PM

This is the "new" .22 Mag semi-auto rifle from Mitchell's Mausers - the Black Lightning:

I wouldn't mind trying this one out, myself.........

.

BeGe1 · January 4, 2013, 05:18 PM

Sorry to revive an old thread, but I just couldn't believe the things I was hearing about the .22lr on here. I'd like to point out a few things:

In any round quick succession shots to the same region of the body (e.g. double-tapping or triple-tapping) does not just add to the stopping power/incapacitation % done by a linear factor, it actually multiplies x3 for each tap. Example: a double tap is 3x the effectiveness/damage of a single round, and a triple tap is 9x the effectiveness of a single round. Realizing this you start to understand that a double tap to the chest with .22lr is as damaging as a 9mm round to the chest, and a triple tap to the chest with .22lr is not that far removed from being shot in the chest point blank with an m16. Given how easy it is to rapid fire accurately with .22lr this makes it an amazingly deadly round when a person familiar with the weapon that understands the value of multiple taps is firing.

My father in law is an ex navy seal. He told me that to take out sentries their weapon of choice was a little sneakiness and a .22lr pistol. The relatively quiet firing combined with the ability to place multiple rounds quickly from short range made it the most useful firearm for the job, and with multiple taps it was plenty effective. If it's good enough for a seal to use it standing 20 ft from a hostile armed sentry then honestly it should be great for many self defense situations (again, if you are skilled with the weapon and understand the value of double and triple taps).

I have stats to support this too. Buckeye Firearms did an analysis of over 1800 gunfights over a 10 year period. Of those being shot with a .22lr more ended up dead than any other type of handgun round. In fact the only more effective weapon type were shotguns (all the handgun rounds were actually very close in those statistics, most falling in about 25%-35% end fatalities with .22lr winning by barely edging out .357, but shotguns of course dominated the whole group with 65%...they are the true best self defense weapon of course, but I digress...). This did not take into account how many rounds were required, but it gets across the point that the .22lr is very deadly. But that same study did also study first round incapacitations (incapacitated whether it lead to death or not). .22lr of course didn't win this statistic relative to other handgun rounds, but it did hang in with many more popular/larger self defense calibers with a 1st round incapacitation rate of 31%. By comparison .45 and .38 special both were 39%, and 9mm was 34%. .22lr isn't always as deadly with 1 shot, but statistically it's more deadly overall than many larger rounds. I personally presume these results are because it's a round that's extremely easy to double or triple tap in the blink of an eye while still keeping zeroed on target.

November 16, 2011, 12:27 PM	#30
22-rimfire Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2005 Location: Tennessee Posts: 5,323	Evil Monkey, I think you should stick with the 22 WMR. You apparently might be a member of the 10's of thousands of 22 Mag owners versus the millions of owners of 22 rifles and handguns. I like the 22 Mag myself, and believe it to be a great general purpose rifle for the woods when you want or need something a bit more powerful than the 22LR. So what 22 mag firearms do you actually own? What was your suggestion to the OP again after all the 22LR, 45ACP, 380ACP thread diversions started? Oh..., you didn't make one, how interesting? Of course there is the YouTube link (Keltec). I think you're a troll on this thread. Last edited by 22-rimfire; November 16, 2011 at 02:54 PM.

November 18, 2011, 09:14 AM	#33
OkieGentleman Senior Member Join Date: August 18, 1999 Location: OKC Metro Posts: 521	Thank You For Advice I think I have settled on what I want using the advice you gentlemen have given. I am looking for a rifle my little petite wife can handle if need be. The Kel Tec RMR 30 looks perfect, 4 lbs, 30 round clip with a laser sightshould be just what I need. Kel Tec says the rifle is scheduled for production the summer of 2012 so I will wait. I figure with a laser sight, a 30 round clip in 22 WMR and a scared red head that should be all of the backup I would need. If she shoots an intruder 10 or 12 times with a 22 WMR he probably decide to go home. LOL Thank You for your input and I hope a Flame War has not started.

November 18, 2011, 01:51 PM	#34
doceaux Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 124	Marlin 922m Got 2 of these that work and shoot fine. Anymore of these out there?

November 25, 2011, 11:37 AM	#40
L_Killkenny Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2007 Location: Iowa Posts: 2,676	Bunch of mis-information here. Gotta love the internet world and old myths. First off, you can reload .223 centerfire for less than .22M. You can get JSP's from midsouth for just over 9 cents each, add 3 cents for a primer, using moderate loads .223 brass will last a long time and is cheap to begin with and then add a couple pennies worth of powder. Next, .22M from a handgun IS pretty much the same as a .22lr from a rifle. Of coarse it depends on which .22lr load you compare it too. But of coarse, most shooters have a better chance of good shot placement with a rifle than a handgun so even though power is the same, capabilities go to a .22lr rifle. .22m handgun is still just a short range bunny gun. Next, a .22M at 100 yards isn't more powerful than a .22lr at the muzzle. It's been awhile since I've run the numbers but IIRC a Velocitor is about 75% of a 40gr .22M at 100 yards. I can also tell you that a Velocitor at 50 yards is equal to a MiniMag at the barrel energy wise and I have never noticed a discernable difference in reaction or damage from raccoons between the Velocitor and a .22M. Obviously load selection makes a big difference with the .22lr but the gap is closed considerably since the days of standard velocity or even high velocity .22lrs. Basically, .22lr ammo cost $1.50- $7/50 as compared to .22M ammo that cost from $9-11/50. What do you get for that extra coin for another gun and ammo? About another 50 yards is it. You're call whether it's worth it. Don't even think about comparing a .22M to a centerfire. Even the baby centerfires like the .22 Hornet smoke it and centerfires can be loaded for the same cost or less. LK Last edited by L_Killkenny; November 25, 2011 at 11:43 AM.

November 26, 2011, 10:58 AM	#41
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	Texas High Standard, under the AMT marque, has a detachable magazine (clip) .22 Mag autoloader, that's inexpensive & accurate. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FI8q...ture=fvwp&NR=1 . Last edited by PetahW; November 26, 2011 at 11:04 AM.

November 15, 2011, 11:52 PM	#27
Bamashooter Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2010 Posts: 1,860	Evil monkey you should get educated to the facts before you come here spewing this drivel. The only thing thats trash is your posts.

November 16, 2011, 12:39 AM	#29
Bamashooter Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2010 Posts: 1,860	Pick a post. There are tons of stories out there on the world wide web that proves the .22lr is anything but useless. You say the .45acp is dying out and I say you are wrong again. Do you have any idea how much better the .45acp is compared to the .40S&W? Even if its not, there are millions of 1911 owners out there who will be needing ammo for many decades to come, myself included. I dont really care what your hangup with the .22lr is but to say its useless is an ignorant statement to say the least.

November 24, 2011, 02:55 PM	#35
Gehrhard Junior member Join Date: July 15, 2009 Location: East of the Missississippippi Posts: 675	Evil Monkey is quite incorrect that "22wmr from a pistol is really no different than 22lr." Factoid: .22 Mag in a 6" pistol is more powerful than ANY .22 LR from any RIFLE, no less pistol!

November 24, 2011, 06:57 PM	#37
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	Back in the 1980's I tried the 22mag for close range coyote hunting. First rifle was a Marlin tube fed which had serious feeding problems. Second was an H&R semiauto which worked but did not produce satisfactory accuracy(3-4" @ 100 yards)with the ammo available at that time. I finally gave up on it and traded it in on a Mini14(stiil not accurate enough) and then gave up on the semiauto until the AR fad began. I found the 22mag sufficient to kill coyotes @150 yards with a body hit using HP ammo and my longest measured kill was 185 yards. Mostly I used the 22 mag on running shots fairly close to the hounds since it was less likely to put the dogs off trail. About any hit was good enough with the dogs on track since they would bay the cripple sooner or later.

November 24, 2011, 08:45 PM	#38
Gehrhard Junior member Join Date: July 15, 2009 Location: East of the Missississippippi Posts: 675	.22 Mag is sometimes referred to as the 125 yard round. First another factoid: at 100 yards the velocity is the same as a .22 LR at the muzzle! But because the bullets are flat points (excpet V-Max are they?) the speed starts to drop off precipitously at 125 yards, not that it won't continue to do damage but it ain't no spitzer!

November 26, 2011, 03:46 PM	#42
C7AR15 Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2011 Location: Burnaby Posts: 260	CZ and Rem 597 WMR I have a Remington 597 Semi-auto in .22WMR and it works great. I can shoot damn near 1 MOA (1" @ 100YDS) with cheap Winchester ammo. It is my favorite gun for shooting gophers in Saskatewan Range 0-100 + and it hits them hard, much much harder than any .22 LR will do. My friend bought the new CZ .22WMR (semi) and had a lot of trouble with it. Had to go to the gunsmith to get it working. $$ But that was the first year of production- I'm sure CZ would fix any dificiences by now. PS I do not own a .22 rifle !!! But do have 5 rimfire guns !!?? Go buy something, new toys are always good for morale. JD

November 26, 2011, 03:53 PM	#43
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	This is the "new" .22 Mag semi-auto rifle from Mitchell's Mausers - the Black Lightning: I wouldn't mind trying this one out, myself......... .

January 4, 2013, 05:18 PM	#44
BeGe1 Junior Member Join Date: January 4, 2013 Posts: 1	Sorry to revive an old thread, but I just couldn't believe the things I was hearing about the .22lr on here. I'd like to point out a few things: In any round quick succession shots to the same region of the body (e.g. double-tapping or triple-tapping) does not just add to the stopping power/incapacitation % done by a linear factor, it actually multiplies x3 for each tap. Example: a double tap is 3x the effectiveness/damage of a single round, and a triple tap is 9x the effectiveness of a single round. Realizing this you start to understand that a double tap to the chest with .22lr is as damaging as a 9mm round to the chest, and a triple tap to the chest with .22lr is not that far removed from being shot in the chest point blank with an m16. Given how easy it is to rapid fire accurately with .22lr this makes it an amazingly deadly round when a person familiar with the weapon that understands the value of multiple taps is firing. My father in law is an ex navy seal. He told me that to take out sentries their weapon of choice was a little sneakiness and a .22lr pistol. The relatively quiet firing combined with the ability to place multiple rounds quickly from short range made it the most useful firearm for the job, and with multiple taps it was plenty effective. If it's good enough for a seal to use it standing 20 ft from a hostile armed sentry then honestly it should be great for many self defense situations (again, if you are skilled with the weapon and understand the value of double and triple taps). I have stats to support this too. Buckeye Firearms did an analysis of over 1800 gunfights over a 10 year period. Of those being shot with a .22lr more ended up dead than any other type of handgun round. In fact the only more effective weapon type were shotguns (all the handgun rounds were actually very close in those statistics, most falling in about 25%-35% end fatalities with .22lr winning by barely edging out .357, but shotguns of course dominated the whole group with 65%...they are the true best self defense weapon of course, but I digress...). This did not take into account how many rounds were required, but it gets across the point that the .22lr is very deadly. But that same study did also study first round incapacitations (incapacitated whether it lead to death or not). .22lr of course didn't win this statistic relative to other handgun rounds, but it did hang in with many more popular/larger self defense calibers with a 1st round incapacitation rate of 31%. By comparison .45 and .38 special both were 39%, and 9mm was 34%. .22lr isn't always as deadly with 1 shot, but statistically it's more deadly overall than many larger rounds. I personally presume these results are because it's a round that's extremely easy to double or triple tap in the blink of an eye while still keeping zeroed on target.