7.62x39mm gel test: TulAmmo 124 gr soft point

Andrew Wiggin · June 18, 2015, 10:45 AM

If you could only stock one type of AK ammo, do you think this would be good enough for SHTF?

Link to video of test

TulAmmo 124 gr soft point fired from 16" SAR-1 into calibrated 10% gelatin.

BB: 597.1 fps, 3.4"

Impact velocity: 2,526 fps
Penetration: 11.3"
Retained weight: 89.9 gr
Max expansion: 0.809"
Min expansion: 0.514"

The penetration is a little shallow, but it ought to increase as range increases and velocity decreases.

NINEX19 · June 18, 2015, 11:15 AM

I hope this thread does not take the fast track down to the AR VS AK pit.

I actually really like the 7.62x39 round for what it is. It has been proven a successful round all over the world. I feel it is a good balance of velocity, energy, size, recoil, multipurpose usefulness, etc. In a SHTF scenario, I think it probably will not matter if it is soft point or FMJ, though each will do some things better than the other.

Of course it is good enough for SHTF. Not trying to compare it to a rock, but any working firearm with ammo is better than a rock.

Andrew Wiggin · June 18, 2015, 11:30 AM

Yeah, I think it's an under appreciated cartridge. Cheaper than .300 Blacksnot, too.

COSteve · June 18, 2015, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Yeah, I think it's an under appreciated cartridge. Cheaper than .300 Blacksnot, too.

And the 123grn comparisons show it's a couple hundred fps faster as well.

dakota.potts · June 18, 2015, 01:09 PM

Have you tested the Hornady SST? If I were stocking something for SHTF, and it were a factory round, I'd want to do that. But the Tula is cheaper. I'm not sold on the low penetration, but an expansion of over 3/4" is respectable.

I'm also thinking about pulling some 7.62X39 Monarch and replacing the FMJ with Barnes or maybe Lehigh Defense ammo. I'd love to send you some for testing if I end up making them, although my VZ2008 has a .308 bore and your guns likely do not.

Andrew Wiggin · June 18, 2015, 01:43 PM

I did test SST. It's on my channel, if you're interested. I also tested S&B 123 gr soft point and I think that is a better balance of cost and performance.

SHR970 · June 18, 2015, 03:16 PM

FBI 12"-14" be damned... that's gonna do some serious damage. A CoM hit is extremely likely to take someone out of the fight RIGHT NOW if not PDQ.

WV_gunner · June 18, 2015, 03:35 PM

These sort of threads aren't allowed here unless the rules have changed.
The 7.62x39 is balisticly about the same as a .30-30. I can't remember the distance now, but I believe it was 200 yards could've been a little more, but somewhere in there it was I got my first deer at 10 years old with a .30-30 so is say it's good for about anything. The 7.62x39 is one of the most popular military rounds, I see no reason to question it.
I really don't understand your poll. The 7.62x39 has been chambered in many guns other than AKs.
Cheap FMJ ammo isn't horrible and you probably won't notice any accuracy issues shooting free handed. I've shot several hundred rounds of it with no problems. I didn't know they made soft points. I know Russian hollow points might as well be FMJ. As long as the gun in question is an AK or SKS then I'd only shoot steel cases FMJ unless you intend to hunt with it.

Andrew Wiggin · June 18, 2015, 03:55 PM

We aren't allowed to discuss ammunition test results?

Correction: MOST Russian HP performs like FMJ. The 8M3 bullet fragments well but I know of no practical way to identify whether a particular lot uses it because the crappy ones also have scoring marks on the inside of the jacket.

WV_gunner · June 18, 2015, 05:11 PM

Shtf oriented threads

I've heard of people taking thin cut off wheels and making an X in the tip of the Russian FMJ and hollow points. I have no idea how safe it is to perform that or how well they perform.

Andrew Wiggin · June 18, 2015, 05:31 PM

Really? I had no idea that was a rule. This is really an ammo thread, not a SHTF thread, buy I can edit it if it's against the rules.

I was thinking of testing modified bullets like that. Might be interesting.

dakota.potts · June 18, 2015, 10:28 PM

SHTF threads are not allowed, but general discussion of the utility of certain items including ammunition typically is. As long as you're not discussing what type of ammo is best to stock for the zombie apocalypse or something like that, it's usually OK to discuss the performance or utility of something like ammo.

Zorro · June 20, 2015, 11:39 PM

Good for smaller deer like White Tails.

But....

I wouldn't shot a Wild Pig or Black Bear with one.

Andrew Wiggin · June 21, 2015, 12:00 AM

Have you shot animals with this load? What was your experience?

Armed_Chicagoan · June 21, 2015, 10:08 AM

Last December Cabela's had that on sale for $4.50/box. It was sold under the Herter's brand but it was just rebranded Tula, looked identical and had a Tulammo head stamp.

I bought 400 rounds, wish I had bought more! Only have a few left, 23 cents a round makes for some cheap shooting for my SKS!

Andrew Wiggin · June 21, 2015, 11:01 AM

That's the problem with commie ammo. I tested a Tula 154 gr soft point and got excellent expansion but The Ammo Channel tested Herter's 154 gr soft point and it did not expand at all. They change components too much to be certain what you're getting. Best I can recommend if you don't want to muck around with gelatin is to buy a small quantity and shoot into some water jugs to verify it can expand.

Erno86 · June 21, 2015, 01:38 PM

Not on your life...no way...uh-uh.

I would buy some quality ammo --- not some cheap Russian or Ukrainian crap --- Because I experienced a primer fired only squib load {the powder was clumpy looking,} last year; while shooting TulAmmo --- in 7.62x39 --- in my AK 47.

joeb · June 21, 2015, 03:01 PM

I've had a number of soft detonations through the years and haven't been deterred from commie ammo yet. Then again I'm not into firing as fast as I can make a bang. Most have cleared the muzzle, which is a strange sensation when you see it hit the ground a short distance off. To each his own though.

WV_gunner · June 21, 2015, 10:37 PM

It doesn't matter which company made it, you can have problems. I've seen Remington .30-30 loaded with so much powder the bullets weren't in the casing as much as they should be. Hardly noticeable if you look at it. Very noticeable when shot, it felt like a cannon. Then years later I had .410 Remington shells that wouldn't eject from my single shot. This gun usually ejects empty cases a few feet, turns out the end of the hull had an 1/8 inch protrusion. I looked over the rest of the box and almost half had it. This was so called name brand ammo, so in my mind it doesn't matter who makes it. I do only recommend tulammo for AKs and SKSs. I tried it in my Baby Eagle and some failed to fire and some wouldn't cycle the gun. That shows their inconsisty but it also shows that AKs really aren't picky either like other semi autos.

View Poll Results: Good enough for SHTF?
Yes	18	85.71%
No	2	9.52%
AKs are garbage, anyway.	1	4.76%
Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll

June 18, 2015, 10:45 AM	#1
Andrew Wiggin Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2012 Posts: 516	7.62x39mm gel test: TulAmmo 124 gr soft point If you could only stock one type of AK ammo, do you think this would be good enough for SHTF? Link to video of test TulAmmo 124 gr soft point fired from 16" SAR-1 into calibrated 10% gelatin. BB: 597.1 fps, 3.4" Impact velocity: 2,526 fps Penetration: 11.3" Retained weight: 89.9 gr Max expansion: 0.809" Min expansion: 0.514" The penetration is a little shallow, but it ought to increase as range increases and velocity decreases.

June 18, 2015, 01:09 PM	#5
dakota.potts Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2013 Location: Keystone Heights, Florida Posts: 3,084	Have you tested the Hornady SST? If I were stocking something for SHTF, and it were a factory round, I'd want to do that. But the Tula is cheaper. I'm not sold on the low penetration, but an expansion of over 3/4" is respectable. I'm also thinking about pulling some 7.62X39 Monarch and replacing the FMJ with Barnes or maybe Lehigh Defense ammo. I'd love to send you some for testing if I end up making them, although my VZ2008 has a .308 bore and your guns likely do not. __________________ Certified Gunsmith (On Hiatus) Certified Armorer - H&K and Glock Among Others You can find my writings at my website, pottsprecision.com.

June 18, 2015, 03:35 PM	#8
WV_gunner Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2011 Location: WV Posts: 938	These sort of threads aren't allowed here unless the rules have changed. The 7.62x39 is balisticly about the same as a .30-30. I can't remember the distance now, but I believe it was 200 yards could've been a little more, but somewhere in there it was I got my first deer at 10 years old with a .30-30 so is say it's good for about anything. The 7.62x39 is one of the most popular military rounds, I see no reason to question it. I really don't understand your poll. The 7.62x39 has been chambered in many guns other than AKs. Cheap FMJ ammo isn't horrible and you probably won't notice any accuracy issues shooting free handed. I've shot several hundred rounds of it with no problems. I didn't know they made soft points. I know Russian hollow points might as well be FMJ. As long as the gun in question is an AK or SKS then I'd only shoot steel cases FMJ unless you intend to hunt with it. Last edited by WV_gunner; June 18, 2015 at 03:45 PM.

June 18, 2015, 10:28 PM	#12
dakota.potts Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2013 Location: Keystone Heights, Florida Posts: 3,084	SHTF threads are not allowed, but general discussion of the utility of certain items including ammunition typically is. As long as you're not discussing what type of ammo is best to stock for the zombie apocalypse or something like that, it's usually OK to discuss the performance or utility of something like ammo. __________________ Certified Gunsmith (On Hiatus) Certified Armorer - H&K and Glock Among Others You can find my writings at my website, pottsprecision.com.

June 18, 2015, 11:15 AM	#2
NINEX19 Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2001 Location: Washington State Posts: 470	I hope this thread does not take the fast track down to the AR VS AK pit. I actually really like the 7.62x39 round for what it is. It has been proven a successful round all over the world. I feel it is a good balance of velocity, energy, size, recoil, multipurpose usefulness, etc. In a SHTF scenario, I think it probably will not matter if it is soft point or FMJ, though each will do some things better than the other. Of course it is good enough for SHTF. Not trying to compare it to a rock, but any working firearm with ammo is better than a rock.

June 18, 2015, 11:30 AM	#3
Andrew Wiggin Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2012 Posts: 516	Yeah, I think it's an under appreciated cartridge. Cheaper than .300 Blacksnot, too.

June 18, 2015, 01:43 PM	#6
Andrew Wiggin Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2012 Posts: 516	I did test SST. It's on my channel, if you're interested. I also tested S&B 123 gr soft point and I think that is a better balance of cost and performance.

June 18, 2015, 03:16 PM	#7
SHR970 Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 1,427	FBI 12"-14" be damned... that's gonna do some serious damage. A CoM hit is extremely likely to take someone out of the fight RIGHT NOW if not PDQ.

June 18, 2015, 03:55 PM	#9
Andrew Wiggin Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2012 Posts: 516	We aren't allowed to discuss ammunition test results? Correction: MOST Russian HP performs like FMJ. The 8M3 bullet fragments well but I know of no practical way to identify whether a particular lot uses it because the crappy ones also have scoring marks on the inside of the jacket.

June 18, 2015, 05:11 PM	#10
WV_gunner Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2011 Location: WV Posts: 938	Shtf oriented threads I've heard of people taking thin cut off wheels and making an X in the tip of the Russian FMJ and hollow points. I have no idea how safe it is to perform that or how well they perform.

June 18, 2015, 05:31 PM	#11
Andrew Wiggin Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2012 Posts: 516	Really? I had no idea that was a rule. This is really an ammo thread, not a SHTF thread, buy I can edit it if it's against the rules. I was thinking of testing modified bullets like that. Might be interesting.

June 20, 2015, 11:39 PM	#13
Zorro Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2000 Posts: 1,072	Good for smaller deer like White Tails. But.... I wouldn't shot a Wild Pig or Black Bear with one.

June 21, 2015, 12:00 AM	#14
Andrew Wiggin Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2012 Posts: 516	Have you shot animals with this load? What was your experience?

June 21, 2015, 10:08 AM	#15
Armed_Chicagoan Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2013 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 776	Last December Cabela's had that on sale for $4.50/box. It was sold under the Herter's brand but it was just rebranded Tula, looked identical and had a Tulammo head stamp. I bought 400 rounds, wish I had bought more! Only have a few left, 23 cents a round makes for some cheap shooting for my SKS!

June 21, 2015, 11:01 AM	#16
Andrew Wiggin Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2012 Posts: 516	That's the problem with commie ammo. I tested a Tula 154 gr soft point and got excellent expansion but The Ammo Channel tested Herter's 154 gr soft point and it did not expand at all. They change components too much to be certain what you're getting. Best I can recommend if you don't want to muck around with gelatin is to buy a small quantity and shoot into some water jugs to verify it can expand.

June 21, 2015, 01:38 PM	#17
Erno86 Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2012 Location: Marriottsville, Maryland Posts: 1,739	Not on your life...no way...uh-uh. I would buy some quality ammo --- not some cheap Russian or Ukrainian crap --- Because I experienced a primer fired only squib load {the powder was clumpy looking,} last year; while shooting TulAmmo --- in 7.62x39 --- in my AK 47. __________________ That rifle hanging on the wall of the working class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." --- George Orwell Last edited by Erno86; June 21, 2015 at 01:50 PM.

June 21, 2015, 03:01 PM	#18
joeb Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2007 Location: Coastal South Texas Posts: 135	I've had a number of soft detonations through the years and haven't been deterred from commie ammo yet. Then again I'm not into firing as fast as I can make a bang. Most have cleared the muzzle, which is a strange sensation when you see it hit the ground a short distance off. To each his own though.

June 21, 2015, 10:37 PM	#19
WV_gunner Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2011 Location: WV Posts: 938	It doesn't matter which company made it, you can have problems. I've seen Remington .30-30 loaded with so much powder the bullets weren't in the casing as much as they should be. Hardly noticeable if you look at it. Very noticeable when shot, it felt like a cannon. Then years later I had .410 Remington shells that wouldn't eject from my single shot. This gun usually ejects empty cases a few feet, turns out the end of the hull had an 1/8 inch protrusion. I looked over the rest of the box and almost half had it. This was so called name brand ammo, so in my mind it doesn't matter who makes it. I do only recommend tulammo for AKs and SKSs. I tried it in my Baby Eagle and some failed to fire and some wouldn't cycle the gun. That shows their inconsisty but it also shows that AKs really aren't picky either like other semi autos.