sub compact 9mm- Walther PPS or Kahr

[orionengnr]

I have no experience with any of the Walthers.

I do have a PM9 and a P45. Had each around 6-7 years.
More recently, I bought a PM45 thinking it would be the best of both worlds. It wasn't...for me, anyway. Guy I sold it to loves it.

If I were to do it today, I'd probably opt for the CM9--it is 90% of the gun at about 60% of the price. You can also shoot lead reloads out of a CM9 due to it's conventionally rifled barrel. The only thing it gives up is the dovetail for the front sight (limits aftermarket sights), but a good machinist could solve that very quickly.

[mumbo719]

I love my PPS. Kahr's, not so much.

[wild cat mccane]

Someone mentioned the Karh is thinner than the PPS.

I am not so sure.

In my pocket, my Kahr PM40 (before it killed itself) came with a take down/slide release that loved to dig into my leg. Oh, and it makes the gun about 1/4" thicker than most describe it to be...

[dbldune]

Just got my subcompact the other day. Ran 200 rounds through it today and had zero hickups. Shot well, and felt good in my hand. Very different from handling a model 92fs.

Quality gun, give it a try

[kahrguy]

Guys its kinda hard to compair a PPS against most Kahrs at the PPs weight all most 22oz and the lenght. With mag in its claoer to a cw/p series kahr but still wider and heavier. The pps is in the weight class of a all metal kahrs and heavier than most glocks .

Watch this video for a good compairison of the cm9, g26 and pps. - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldobTPnrH5c

[btmj]

...its kinda hard to compair a PPS against most Kahrs at the PPs ....

Fair enough. The PPS with 7 rounds of 124 gr is 23 oz... The CM9 with 7 rounds is 19 oz. The PPS is 21% heavier (4 oz).

If someone shoots the CM9 and likes the gun, but finds the recoil a bit brutal, they should try the MK9. The extra weight will soak up the recoil. The steel Kahrs are a bit spendy, however.

[MLeake]

I've owned a PM9, and currently own an MK9 and a PPS.

If you want pocket carry, the PM9 has lesser dimensions in length and height than the PPS, and will carry in more pockets.

The PM9 is pretty accurate, but the PPS in my experience is slightly more accurate than the PM9 or the MK9.

The PPS is easier to shoot rapidly than is the PM9, as it affords a full three-finger grip. The MK9 (which you didn't list, but is the all-metal sibling of the PM9) falls in between, as its all metal weight absorbs recoil and negates some of the top-heavy feel of the PM9, but it still only allows a two-finger grip unless you use the extended magazine.

I have NOT had good luck with the PM9 or MK9 and extended magazines. My little finger's leverage on them seems to affect feed reliability. I have not had a problem with the flush fitting magazines, other than a reduced ability to keep muzzle flip down due to my little finger hanging in space. Note: The PM9 and MK9 are both torquey little guns under recoil.

The PPS allows three different magazine lengths. I have had ZERO failures to date with the PPS.

I am not a fan of the "safety" feature built into the PPS grip - if you detach the backstrap, the gun is disabled. In theory, this prevents accidental deaths during disassembly. In practice, it could disable the gun under some (unlikely) conditions. My partial solution to this was to install a LimbSaver grip sleeve, which helps guard against accidental detachment of the backstrap, and which also helps fill my size L/XL hand a bit better. (I use the large backstrap on the PPS.) Coincidentally, the LimbSaver grip sleeve also damps down recoil, which isn't really bad in the first place in the PPS.

Of the three guns, I'd go with the PPS, but it is better in IWB mode than in pocket mode.

[kahrguy]

I use the cw9 's 7 round mag or an 8 round mag in my cm9 at the range at times. When useing the cw9 the 8 round mag runs great in it also. The 8 rounder is allways a back up mag. Heck I have never had a failure of any kind in the several years I have own kahrs. My cw9 did come as a used problem handgun, but for me it has been trouble free for close to a 1000 rounds. Owners and ammo can cause more issue than any thing with small light handguns. But I have not used the extended mag with the funky black plactic wrap on it ether that many have problems with.

Heck if you don't like the cm/pm and don't plan on pocket carry get the cw/p series. Full grip there for all but the largest hands and very easy to shoot and control.

[MLeake]

Or maybe you've been lucky, kahrguy.

That would be my guess, since one of the more popular references out there for owners of polymer Kahrs is the "fluff and buff" guide. My PM9 required that, and ran noticeably better afterward, but it still preferred six round magazines over seven round magazines.

I know other Kahr owners who have had similar experiences.

That said, I know a few who have had better luck.

Most, from both camps, have other small guns, too, and can shoot them well enough.

I typically use Speer FMJ, CorBon DPX115, Speer Gold Dot 124, and in some guns HST 147 when shooting 9mm. Do you see some problem with my ammo, or are you faulting me as shooter?

[kahrguy]

MLeake I did not direct my last post at you but if you feel like it is , oh well. I do not follow a forums version of any fluff and buff on any pistols. I will do a few things to every pistol, look for sharp edges or corners to soften or to smooth, mags included. I will tune the feed lips on a mag to if needed. like with old 1911's. I do polishing on the feed ramp and chamber. I also lube a new pistol better than may be needed when new and try to run 400 rounds before cleaning. Does not matter the make.

Now only you can determine how skilled you are with your kahr as I have not met you or just as import to me , shot your pistol. I will say my first kahr came from a very skilled old match shooter and he could not get it to run well. He and I have become shooting buddys and he has bought another kahr and now finds it runs very well.

Some will buy a small pistol and try to break it in with 115gr base ammo and it may not run with it when new. Take that same pistol and with a 124gr fmj it may run like a race horse and after a couple hundred rounds shoot up the 115gr cheap stuff too.

I only use one weight bullet 124gr. Might be blaser, aguilla, winny nato ranger, what ever brass ammo thats on sale or bulk canned heat from georgia arms and there new loaded GA 124gr +P GD is my CC load. I don't buy WWB Guess you have to find fault where it is. Maybe you have a bad pistol , maybe not. To bad you can't swap handguns with another kahr shooter just to let them do what they do with one.

[MLeake]

kahrguy, sorry if I was touchy earlier. I have a missing dog, and am in a generally bad mood as a result...

I can comfortably say I'm skilled with small pistols. I'd also say that since the PM9 I owned, and the MK9 I currently own, only had issues with certain magazines, that I don't think it's anything I am doing.

And yes, I agree that with auto-loaders it's always a good idea to function check specific ammo makes and loads. (Which is why I do not try to run HST 147 in my SP01, for instance, but it will feed pretty much anything from 115-127gr.)

[kahrguy]

Did you find your dog yet? Hate going your a pet that get away from the house or you. We use to have a big old white cat, my lap cat at night that could be let out and would go next door to moms house. Then come back with no goofing off. We would open the door and call when it was time. Two neighbors mutt dogs came running threw ,one grabbed my ole cat and took off. I grabbed my pistol went after them and when found my cat it was died followed quickly by both dogs. Told the dogs two owners what I did and why , one being a local leo. Nooo issues with ether over it.

Hope your pet shows up.

If you think its just a mag issue and you have a caliper, find and mark the good mag and measure the feed lips front and rear anf try to match the others or even widen if you have nose dives, narrow for nose up at the front of the lips . Thats the only problems I have ever had and thats mostly tunable . Some guys mess with the followers angle too. I had what was an old man maybe 40 years ago help me to get what I called a pile of brown stuff 1911 to run well just by tuneing the mags and useing good springs. My 8 round mag is about ready for a new spring. Works but feel very light compared to the others.

[wild cat mccane]

No. It is a google-able fact that many people have issues with the +1 magazines in the CM and PM series.

I would even say MOST PM9/40 owners would say they have reliability issues with the +1 mags. They simply shift around more.

[MLeake]

Sorry for the thread hijack, guys, but I've received a few queries about the dog.

Good news up front: She's home.

Longer version: Called the wife, routine "Hey Baby!" call the other day - I am in Afghanistan. She was very upset; turned out our two big dogs had been out with her while she was repairing horse fence in the pasture, and had run off. Only one came back.

When I called her, the dog had been gone overnight, and the weather had been cold. This was very unusual. Since the dog's collar has our phone numbers on it, we assumed either she'd been stolen, or else injured or killed.

The wife checked with all the neighbors; contacted the shelter; contacted the microchip company; contacted the vet. Nothing.

And, of course, I'm overseas, and unable to help her. Not my favorite situation.

Dog ended up missing for three nights, with temperatures down to 13F. By this point, we were thinking, "shot by hunter or farmer; killed by coyotes..."

Midday yesterday, my wife got a call. Turns out one of our neighbors had a trap line he had not checked in a few days. Our dog was stuck in a bobcat trap for three nights. We are still amazed nothing came along and ate her.

In any case, she's home, after a trip to the vet. My wife isn't crying, which is good. (Even pregnant, she's a farmgirl and an RN, and things don't normally get to her so that anybody who doesn't know her well could notice.)

So, we have our prodigal number three dog back; my wife is happy; and, to top it off, she just sent me some ultrasounds of our unborn son (4 month mark). He's doing extremely well based on all the blood and other tests, and is running ahead of the size curve to boot. My day is much better than the last several were.

End of hijack, and thanks for all the kind notes.

M

[bish]

Most excellent! This is the right kind of hi jack.

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

[IXLR8]

I have a Kahr and a PPS. The PPS is VERY accurate.
Be aware that if dropped, the back strap can come off leaving the firearm incapable of firing. That being said, I still prefer the PPS for carry, or plinking.