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Old May 22, 2006, 12:45 PM   #1
Striker1
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How do you do Tactical Reload?

I would like to hear all the various techniques being used. I was taught the complicated way, mag out between little finger and ring finger.

Any new and better ways being used now?

Thanks
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Old May 22, 2006, 01:33 PM   #2
JJB2
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ummm..... when i run the first 6 rounds out the model 27 i just open the cylinder and pop in the speed loader with 6 more ........ close the cylinder and go...........
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Old May 22, 2006, 02:19 PM   #3
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That would be a reload as opposed to a tactical reload
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Old May 22, 2006, 02:25 PM   #4
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What's the difference between a Tactical Reload and a regular reload?
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Old May 22, 2006, 02:26 PM   #5
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Sounds like you have it down.
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Old May 22, 2006, 02:44 PM   #6
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I'm a wheelgunner

That being said, I've got a couple of Speedloaders, and if the unlikely event that isn't enough, then I'd pull out the rifles or the shotguns.

I'm not keen on trying to reload a semi-auto magazine. Maybe someone else here can give you better advice on reloading a magazine, but semi-autos are just not for me.
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Old May 22, 2006, 04:15 PM   #7
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I was referring to the method used to reload a pistol/rifle/carbine/shotgun before it is completely empty.
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Old May 22, 2006, 05:05 PM   #8
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Drop the magazine and reload slowly in a hurry.
Usually with 2 or 3 rounds left in the first mag.

AFS
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Old May 22, 2006, 05:21 PM   #9
root
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tactial reload is when you reload before your mag is empty. One example of a situation where this would be useful is if you were in a gunfight (where lots of rounds were going back and forth, fa!), you have some cover or a chance to reload, but you still have 3 rnds left in your mag, swap out your 3 rnd mag and put in a full mag. That way, you can continue to fire a full mag instead of 3 shots - then possibly running out of ammo at a bad time.

the important thing I remember with tactical reload is, don't let your partially full mag hit the ground, keep it! if you're in a situation where you're needing to reload and continue to fire / tactical reload, then you're probably going to need that extra ammo.

all that being said, it's probably fairly rare that an average joe would need to do it.
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Old May 22, 2006, 05:26 PM   #10
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Another Revolver user here ....

Dump shells into pocket (used and unused) and pop in another speed loader.

If I still have time then I'll separate the used from the unused.

Being a private citizen if I have a chance to reload I'm going to be probably be thinking that this may be a good chance to put some distance between me and my attacker. Might be time better spent.
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Old May 25, 2006, 06:40 AM   #11
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You mentioned the mag between the ring finger and middle finger technique. I've seen this done where the new mag to be inserted is grasped between the middle finger and ring finger and the magazine to be removed is then grasped with the thumb and index finger. I prefer to grasp the magazine to be inserted with the thumb and index finger as I would if doing a speed reload (index finger is along the front of the mag with the tip of my finger touching the front of the top round) and then take out the magazine from the pistol with the middle and ring finger. Insert the full mag and store the fresh one in a pocket. Move your second full mag to the # 1 position on your pouch assuming a 2 mag pouch. (Some will move the full mag to the #1 position then store the partial mag in the # 2 slot) I have more control over the full mag when grabbed as described than with the full mag between the ring and middle finger and this way I always grab a mag from the pouch the same way every time.

Some people have a hard time with two mags in their hand at the same time and doing the Tac load under stress would only compound the problem. Another technique is to check to insure you have a spare, quickly take the mag out of the pistol and store, then secure the full mag from the pouch and insert. Most people can actually do this faster than the other technique.

Personally, I think the tactical reload is overstressed. Its a skill that you should know, but not as critical as speed reload and malfunctions drills.

The question is when and why do a tactical reload. You often hear "when there is a lull in the fight". If there is any chance that lead is still gonna be flying, I'll forego a tactical reload and do a speed reload when needed. I don't want to be caught without a mag in my pistol or two in my hand.

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Old May 25, 2006, 09:41 AM   #12
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1-Check six o'clock for threats. If clear return to known threat and proceed...
2- Head up eyes on target always. If no cover is available then you need to be MOVING(!).
3- Bring weapon in close to your chest in a semi retention position just below line of sight (^^^eyes on target).
4- Locate fresh mag BEFORE you dump old one. Grasp fresh magazine between thumb and index finger. Dump spent mag into palm. RAM fresh mag home. Pocket or otherwise retain partial mag.
4.5-Are your feet still moving? If not, then you're dead.
5-Reengage.
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Old May 29, 2006, 08:21 PM   #13
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I was taught that way a loong time ago. I was wondering what the latest technique is. I never had that much faith in the method of juggling two magazines in the hand under stress either.

AS to immediate action drills...I am a firm believer in practicing those also.

Of course I would guess most folks don't 'cause it just ani't much fun
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Old May 29, 2006, 08:54 PM   #14
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Kiss

Take out the partial magazine and stowe it away.

Insert new magazine.

No need to juggle, no need to be in a big hurry, keep it simple and get the gun up and running.
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Old May 29, 2006, 09:46 PM   #15
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My preferred method for teaching the PISTOL tac-reload is to hold the fresh mag between the INDEX and MIDDLE finger of the off-hand, eject the semi-spent mag into the palm between thumb and index, then insert fresh mag.

My reasoning for holding the fresh mag between INDEX and MIDDLE finger is because that is the strongest grip for this application. Think of what happens when someone gets injured - your fingers CLASP, they don't extend. If you've got the fresh mag between the index and middle fingers you'll be much less likely to drop it if you suddenly tense up - for whatever reason. I've discussed this with some medical docs and they didn't have anything negative to say about it - whatever that's worth

As for its application in civilian settings.. I believe you have a much higher chance of using the Tac Reload than you do the Combat Reload. Think about it - if you've just put an unknown number of rounds into someone (or two someones) in an SD situation and the IMMEDIATE threat has been removed, it would be smart - if time/situation permits - to do a Tac Reload while surveying the area and looking for additional threats.

It doesn't make sense to me to eject the partially used mag before you have the new mag ready. If the object is to minimize the amount of time the gun is "down", then my thought is to keep the partial mag handy for as long as you can. The actual switch can be done in fractions of a second if you set it up correctly. Once the gun is back up with a fresh mag, it doesn't really matter how long it takes you to put that partially spent mag away.
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Old May 29, 2006, 09:55 PM   #16
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Tactical Reloads

Despite much training to do it in other ways, when the Persian melon is about to hit the oscillator I'll do what Sweatnbullets says!
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Old May 30, 2006, 12:12 AM   #17
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What if you're a wheelgunner and don't have the swing out cylinder? Is have a spare cylinder a possibility? I recently picked up a Ruger Vaquero and I can pull the cylinder and put back it back in inside of 3 seconds.
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Old May 30, 2006, 12:38 AM   #18
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The KISS technique is exactly what I do with my AR also.

Commonality in training.

I have done them both ways, as pick pocket suggests and the KISS method. The juggleing method is fast but it degrades rapidly under stress. I have seen my mags hit the ground during timed skills test. The KISS method is very sure and only slightly slower.

A tactical reload should be performed after secondary threats are scanned for, and after you have moved to cover. No rush to tac reload, just be sure!

The adrenaline dump will be kicking in plenty good here....juggleing is tough with the tremors. Heck, it can be a challenge during a stupid timed test.
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Old May 30, 2006, 12:56 AM   #19
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The stress factor deserves some conversation here, because I think it's important to remember that you're not going to want to do a tac-reload while BG #3 is fast approaching from your flank. No, it is after additional threats have been scanned for, as SnB stated. Inherently this means that even though the adrenaline will still be pumping, you're under NO severe stress to get the reload done in quickly. That's the nature of the Tac Reload - slow and easy, get ready for something else.
When I do a Tac Reload, I can take my sweet time pulling the fresh mag and getting it into position, pulling the weapon in close, and then the only thing that happens fast is the drop and slamming in the new mag. Once mags have been changed, I can take my sweet time finding a place to put that partial mag. It's all about economy of motion, and the whole drill shouldn't be run at light speed, coz if speed is that much of a factor then might I suggest that just getting the new mag in is more important and you might just drop the partial anyways..

If you practice effeciently it then it doesn't degrade so badly as one might think. If you find yourself stressed and you drop the mag, well ok - no worries. You just completed a hybrid Tac-Com (Tactical/Combat) Reload; There's still rounds in the first mag but you don't worry about retention. Why? Well, situation dictates. You might have another threat to worry about and you don't need to add mag retention to the equation.

SnB - If I'm reading you right, the ONLY reason I don't agree with the KISS method is that once you've dropped the partial mag you have nothing except one round until you get that fresh mag inserted. It's only a matter of seconds, so it's all about whether or not that's important to the individual deciding on the method. However, if something happens during those few seconds you will discharge the one round and risk forgetting to reload. Sounds silly, but I've spent a lot of time with people under this kind of stress (training and real) and you forget the silliest, dumbest, most obvious things.
I'm not saying I've never DONE the KISS Tac Reload, I'm just saying that I trained myself to pull the fresh mag first
Like I said, Situation/Time will dictate!!
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Old May 30, 2006, 01:06 AM   #20
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Pickpocket, the stupid timed tests that I did were probably not a very good idea. The mags hit the ground due to rushing a technique that simply should not be rushed. I'm sure I could do both methods under the effects of the adrenaline dump effectively, as long as I took the appropriate time.

Both ways are good. I try to do the KISS, but old habits die hard and I find the new mag in my hand before I have taken the old one out about 30% of the time. Reprogramming an ingrained skill is a b**ch.

We are not far apart.
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Old May 30, 2006, 01:49 PM   #21
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Quote:
Take out the partial magazine and stowe it away.

Insert new magazine.

No need to juggle, no need to be in a big hurry, keep it simple and get the gun up and running.
I understand the inclination to avoid juggling mags but with practice (everyone does practice this stuff, right?) it's no longer juggling. Worst case scenario is an empty gun. Best case is topping off as fast as possible. Wost case you eject a partial mag from a perfectly good gun only to find that under stress you've used your reload already or lost it in the fight. With a full mag in hand before you eject the partial the gun is empty for the least possible amount of time. If you want to avoid juggling, feel free to drop the partial on the ground then recover it afterwards but ALWAYS grab your reload first.

Another thought spurred on by Pickpocket...Some handguns have a magazine disconnecter. I for one will not own a gun that won't fire without a magazine inserted. One round is better than none, just incase I'm interupted during a reload. Anyone who doesn't know about their gun should certainly find out.
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Old May 30, 2006, 04:32 PM   #22
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The dreaded comment in a thread like this is that no one has ever come up with a legitimate case where the tac reload has saved anyone.

Next, there seems to be no indication that a classic tac reload vs. the retention reload has ever made a difference - which of course is true if no one has ever been saved by any kind of tac reload.

Researchers who have looked for such cases can't seem to find a documented one.

Seems the slide lock reload is the thing that happens under stress. In matches, you can take advantage of the peculiar nature of the safety there with non shooting back opponents to tac reload.

I'd like to know a documented case of a tac reload in a police or civilian gun fight that made a difference.

PS - reloads with retention argue then for the guns without magazine safeties, so you have at least one round when futzing with the gun.
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Old May 30, 2006, 06:41 PM   #23
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Quote:
The dreaded comment in a thread like this is that no one has ever come up with a legitimate case where the tac reload has saved anyone.
It's not so dreaded, actually. It's just that everyone gets wrapped around the axle trying to prove why Tac Reloads are/aren't valuable that they always miss the forest for the trees, which is:
If you find yourself halfway through a magazine and aren't sure how many rounds you have left, why not drop it and put in a new one if you have time?

While I can't tell you of times when a Tac-Reload actually SAVED me, I CAN tell you of a few times where I would have been in a much crappier position had I NOT done a Tac-Reload.

Quote:
Next, there seems to be no indication that a classic tac reload vs. the retention reload has ever made a difference - which of course is true if no one has ever been saved by any kind of tac reload.

Researchers who have looked for such cases can't seem to find a documented one.
Once again, I think that you're trying to cram the Tac Reload into the Combat Reload situation. If the need is dire and the bullets are flying, of course you're going to go to slide lock. I don't think any of us here are advocating trying a Tac Reload in the middle of a firefight - it just doesn't make sense.
As for the researchers, I can find you "researchers" who still think the world is flat

Quote:
Seems the slide lock reload is the thing that happens under stress. In matches, you can take advantage of the peculiar nature of the safety there with non shooting back opponents to tac reload.
It's the context of the thing that matters - this has nothing to do with targets that don't shoot back.

{Open Hypothetical}

For example, let's say that you are attacked in your house. For the sake of argument, let's say that you have a 12 round magazine, and that you shoot two assailants at least three times a piece, but maybe more, you're not sure. What you DO know is that your slide is forward, so you have at least one round. You haven't come out of your bedroom yet, so you don't know whether the rest of your house is clear or not. Do you empty what rounds you have left into the wall or one of the assailants you've already shot so that you can go to slide-lock, or do you just drop the half-used mag and put in a fresh one?
{Close Hypothetical}

Quote:
I'd like to know a documented case of a tac reload in a police or civilian gun fight that made a difference.
If you'd care to extend that to military I'd be happy to tell you of more than one instance where it was used.

Quote:
PS - reloads with retention argue then for the guns without magazine safeties, so you have at least one round when futzing with the gun.
Tactical Reloads are for guns that don't have magazine safeties. Reloads with retention simply describe whether or not you keep the old mag, loaded or not. If someone's gun has a magazine safety then I would hope that they realize up front that the Tac-Reload just won't work for them.


This isn't an argument about Tactical OR Combat, the two methods are completely different tools with completely different applications. You're not going to find any instances where a Tac-Reload saved someone, because it's not really a "life-saving" skill.... it's a "preparedness" tool. You don't do a Tac-Reload in the heat of battle, you do it in a lull to get ready for what may be coming next.

What I know is that you aren't going to remember how many rounds you actually shot under stress. What I know is that I'd rather take a second during a lull to put in a fresh mag than end up two rounds into my next target engagement and go to slide-lock and have to do a Combat Reload while someone is shooting at me.

Let's think of it this way:

Tactical Reload = "Want to"
Combat Reload = "Have to"
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Old May 30, 2006, 09:47 PM   #24
Bob F.
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Quickly!

Actually, current Combat Handguns has an article on reloads. Can't recall if tactical or OS; didn't read the article. Will continue to do as taught. Written instructions much more complicated than actual doing.

Also see brianenos.com!

Then practice, practice, practice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Old May 31, 2006, 02:36 AM   #25
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Just hope you're not shooting a Garand when you decide you need to do a tactical reload!
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