well damn my luck!

[thebser]

I really been wanting a BP revolver for the last 5 years, But never gave it any heavy research. I always looked at them in cabelas and on google images and really thought it would be a great hobbie to get involved in. Well i was at work an a coworker brought in a BP revolver and was looking to get rid of it cuz he aquired it in a trade and was worthless to him because he doesnt have an intrest in history or BP guns. Ok sorry for rambling! i traded him some stuff an aquired the gun......For the kicker its BRASS and from what ive read its not a reliable gun. its a navy replica .36 from cva. im afraid to shoot it now as a first BP gun. its still tight from what i can tell and it looks as if its only fired black powder with no ball as the barrel is clean no marks but the cyilinder is blacked and smells like bp. Should i fire it? Is it safe? what should i look for? Its timed right and falls exact inline with the cone. I got it cheap an now wish i did my research before getiing this gun..........

[BirchOrr]

...shoot BP, live it... It's no hobby... it's a passion.

Don't see any big issue with what you have (from what you say). Ya may want to start out with a little less powder than the norm (just to get the feel of it and also feel safe). Nothing wrong with a brass frame.

If you need advice, you came to the right place. All the big shooters will chime in to help!

Congrats on your "trade" and I'm sure you'll have a "blast" with it!



All the best,

Birch

[Hawg]

Just keep your powder charges around 15 grains and the brass will hold up for years. Cleanup is with hot soapy water. Balls should be .375 diameter and #10 caps.

[thebser]

Thanks! i traded an airsoft electric rife for it! ive always loved history and found a facination with BP guns. I just never had a friend or anyone ive known shoot them. So i was a lil wary of buying one. Ive shot many many guns but never bp and cant wait to shoot it! LOVE the smell of bp! "ive played with it as a kid haha" Ive found myself obsesing a lil since i brought this thing home filling my head with knowlege on sites....

[thebser]

thanks for the link!

[Doc Hoy]

But it sure sounds like it is from your description.

Being brass does not make the revolver unreliable. It makes it a bit more susceptible to early wear from too much powder.

Like Birch says, shoot it with a light load until your confidence peaks.

You say it is from CVA which means it was likely manufactured by Armi San Marco depending upon how old it is. You might find that manufacturer's name on the bottom barrel flat under the loading lever. A.S.M.

Take the revolver apart by pulling the barrel wedge, followed by taking the barrel and cylinder off. Check the tightness of the cylinder arbor by trying to turn it with your fingers. It should be absolutely tight.

I hate to say this, but I think you should pull the trigger guard and back strap off too, just to see what the innards look like. Prolly needs cleaning if it was owned and shot by a novice. Three screws on each piece. On the back strap, the trick to getting it back together is to leave all of the screws loose until you get them started, then tighten them up. (Actually that is good advice for any assembly that has more then two screws. Rocker arm cover, computer chassis, coffee pot, it don't matter.)

Douche it down good with rem oil or other lubricant when you put it back together.

Your description implies that lock up and line up are acceptable.

I also infer that you have some familiarity with firearms and possibly with cartridge revolvers.

.375 round balls to start and number 10 Caps.

I would not worry about early wear-out of this revolver. Once you shoot a hundred rounds through it, you will realize that you need about a dozen more. When you own that many revolvers it is hard to shoot any one of them enough to wear it out. For a man with a job, there aren't enough days in the week.

[thebser]

well thanks to your help i have concluded this gun is unsafe. i pulled the cylinder off and the arbor "im guessing this is the shaft that holds the cylinder" is lose in fact it turns like a quarter of an inch! ugh wall hanger i guess.....now i need a steel frame revolver lol i just bought a bp flask and caper. Also a nipple wrench.....

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

Gee's Doc. Sounds like you sold him one of yours?_

[thebser]

i read a few things online and i tightend it up it turned in and tightend so idk its solid and dont move for nothing....Now the wedge is tight in the groove....Safe haha idk i kinda like my hands and dont wanna lose any fingers so hmmmm first bp revolver might be a bust.....kinda gives me an excuse to buy a new steel frame one.....that is if i can find any thats in stock. seems to be an issue on many of the online stores.....or if anyone wants to send me one from the kindness of there bp heart im game LOLjk....

[Doc Hoy]

SSM,

I have seen about four loose arbors over the last five years. All have been in brass frame revolvers. One was as bad as Thebser describes. All but one appear to have been in abused revolvers. (The other one loosened up after a chainfire event.) But I think the common thread in the abused revolvers was ignorance rather than deliberate disrespect for the handgun.

Somebody buys the revolver. Packs as much powder in the chamber as it will hold and then blasts away. They don't realize the importance of reasonable loads.

I also continue to feel that as much force is placed on the arbor during loading with the lever as is put on the arbor during discharge.

I have never been able to get a loose arbor to tighten up in a lasting way. I have tried the set screw drilled through the frame. I have tried driving the locating pin back into the back of the frame. I have tried silver solder. I know there are those who have been successful at this, but I have not.

One of mine was in a frame which I came up with in a group of parts. I just used it for practice. Two were in revolvers that I just gave up on and parted out. The other was in the C.O.M. Sheriff's model which is a wall hanger. I won't part with it because I love it. But I don't shoot it because I don't trust it.

Thebser,

I want to emphasize that there are those out there who say they have tightened up an arbor and restored the revolver to safe, reliable, shootable condition. They talk about many successful techniques as I have described above. I can't make it work for me, but then I am only one person.

But if you do want to shoot this revolver and are able to tighten it up, I would load the cylinder out of the revolver with a press rather than putting all of the stress of loading on the arbor.

A revolver with a loose arbor is safe to shoot (IMHO) but it probably won't perform as a revolver should. Loose action and excessive gap at the forcing cone.

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

The reason why I suggested you may have sold him one of your pistols was of course a bit of kidding and perhaps a little teasing too. As I know from past threads you take your pistols quite often to the range to enjoy. Thus sooner or later they all get a little wear on them. So I thought at that time prior to my post. Yep sounds like one of Doc's guns "well used" lol

FYI: Don't know a thing about these types of pistols Doc. Never got into B/P pistols. Reason: Believe it or not. My hands are to big to hold onto them correctly. Me and cowboy type pistols have never got along. As you probably know I have a colt peace maker here that's better than 20 years old that I haven't ever fired. Being a nickel piece you would think its owner would fire it at least once. {I would if I could. But I can't. So probably I never will.} My favorite to shoot that fits my hand reasonably well is the old one you seen a lot while in your branch of service Doc-model 1911- But enough with that. Back to these B/P pistols you fellows so dearly like._

S/S

[Noz]

Sure Shot, get ahold of an Army model.
1860 Armys have a larger grip that Colt flt was necessary to handle the increased recoil generated by the .454 bullet and 30 grs of powder.
It is 1/4" longer and larger in all dimensions than a "Peacemaker".

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

Really Noz. I didn't know that. I thought they all had that same generic feel to them. Next time I head over to Cabelas I'll check and see if they got 1860 there under glass? These days everything is in short supply though. Appreciate the advice. thanks Noz.

[Noz]

I always advise folks to try them all before you buy.
Piettas don't feel like Colts or Ubertis.
1873s and 1851s are too small for me, Remingtons do not have the right geometry for me but 1860s fit me like a glove.

[Hawg]

You can also curl your pinky under the butt for a better grip.

[Doc Hoy]

If I were to buy a semi auto it would be a 1911.

I love em.

As far as selling pistols I don't do it that often. I don't feel like I have enough to let any of them go.

I offered two pistols to a fellow poster but I wanted too much for them. I pretty much knew I would set the price too high and I warned him about it.

In fact it was too high so I still have them and am in no rush to let them go.

BTW,

I pretty much knew what you meant when you posted and I knew it was in jest.

[Hawg]

If I were to buy a semi auto it would be a 1911.

Gotta love those 1911's. If you've never fired bp out of a 1911 its a hoot.

[thebser]

I really appreciate all the help! This has sparked my intrest even more so. Ive found a few bp guns i want! one is a kentucky traditions style flint lock pistol and a few colt replicas! Anyone know where to buy bp revolvers online? Everywhere ive looked there out of stock!

[Hawg]

Try Cabela's. http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/searc...h-All+Products

[Roshi]

Cabelas, Dixie Gun Works, Possibles Shop, Taylor's Firearms, Midway, Texas Jacks, Cimarron, and many more. Cabelas and DGW both have a variety of lower cost revolvers and often have sales.

[thebser]

There seems to be more enjoyment it bp guns! ive never been one to just load a cartridge gun and just fire at targets. having a process and taking time with a piece of history seems to me to be a much better way of spending my time. theres something about holding a bp gun that feels good.....sorry i sound like a loon lol. i orderd some balls and #10 caps! i havent figured out what kinda black powder i wanna use. im just taking some time to research and make sure im doing it right! thanks again for all the help. I never thought i would get so many helpfull responces!

[Beagle333]

Personally..... I'd recommend giving the 1860 a whirl.

[Hellgate]

thebser,
If the gun is tight when assembled and there is not excessive cylinder gap it ought to be fine to shoot. If the arbor is pulling out of the frame the cylinder might rest too far forward for the hammer to strike the caps on the nipples. Tap the wedge in so there is about .007" cylinder gap and then push the cylinder back with your thumb to see if the cylinder moves the hammer back. That would indicate there is contact with the hammer on the nipples. Ideally, there should be just shy of contact but it is hard to measure how far off the nipple the hammer is resting if it is not actually touching. If there is a lot of fore and aft play you will see a large cylinder gap that is gonna let a lot of pressure escape when the gun goes off which indicates the gun is shot loose.

One way you can get a chain fire (multiple discharge) is if the recoil ring on the recoil shield is battered down the nipples might actually contact the frame (recoil shield) and be fired as the cylinder recoils back. OOOOPS! So check to see that there is clearance of the capped nipples at the rear when the cylinder is pushed rearward before you fire it.

[Doc Hoy]

Here is a photo which is a good comparison between a relatively new and un abused frame next to one in which the recoil rings is damaged as Hellgate described above.



Note the little crescent shaped high points on the frame on the right. The recoil ring is battered between those high points.

Check your revolver for this kind of damage. If it is damaged in this way, you might consider that 1860.

I have tried repairing a recoil ring too but it is just an embarrassing exercise. I know there are plenty of guys who can do it but apparently I am not one of them yet. I cut a ring from steel. Milled down the damaged ring and then tried silver soldering the steel ring to the brass frame. I couldn't get it located correctly and the result was a frame that would not accept a cylinder or accommodate the hand.

[BirchOrr]

I never thought i would get so many helpfull responces.

I told ya all the big shooters would chime in!



Birch