Antiques- why 1898?

carguychris · October 23, 2010, 09:50 PM

Does anyone know the reason why the year 1898 was chosen as the cutoff when a firearm is defined as a legal antique under US federal law? Was this tied to some sort of gun technology that emerged in 1899, or was it some sort of political decision?

I'm curious.

m.p.driver · October 23, 2010, 11:09 PM

I think it's because anything pre-1898 is considered black powder cartridge.

carguychris · October 24, 2010, 07:30 AM

Quote:

I think it's because anything pre-1898 is considered black powder cartridge.

Several popular smokeless-powder rounds debuted well before 1898, notably the 7x57 Mauser, 8x57 Mauser, 6.5x55 Swedish, and .30-30 Winchester.

JT-AR-MG42 · October 24, 2010, 09:42 AM

1. Maybe Smith & Wesson's Model of 1899. The first 'modern' DA revolver in .38 special. The date of 1898 also kept all viable semi-automatic designs out.

2. Possibly to keep most MG's out of the mix. Even though they were illegal unless registered, keeping them out of antique status might have made sense to some.

3. I rather think that the date of the law being inacted (68?) and a round number of 70 years to pacify the various factions in Congress at the time is closer though.
Then as now, do not look too hard for logic in laws that are handed down to us from a bunch of alkies and failed businessmen.

JT

m.p.driver · October 24, 2010, 10:11 AM

The 8mm Lebel was the first first smokeless round in 1886,but i felt you weren't asking for a history lesson.When someone made the call decades later they had to settle on some date,so why not the point where they knew smokeless wasn't a passing fad.

BTR · October 27, 2010, 12:13 PM

1968-1898 = 70 years.

Maybe they just though 70 years was a nice, round number.

**Mike Irwin** · October 27, 2010, 12:34 PM

There's nothing I can think of that would make 1898 a slam dunk. As other said, smokeless powders were out well before 1898, as early as the mid 1870s for some very early nitrated wood pulps used in shotshells.

It must have been an arbitrary decision.

JustDreadful · October 27, 2010, 12:40 PM

Quote:

It must have been an arbitrary decision.

So unlike every other firearms restriction...

1776 Patriat · November 1, 2010, 09:17 AM

Antiques are generally considered to be 100 years old or more. There is one exeception to the rule that I know of, ie;

Automobiles are considered "antique" if the're 25 years old or more. Why 1898 for firearms makes no since to me.

Steve

carguychris · November 1, 2010, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Antiques are generally considered to be 100 years old or more. There is one exeception to the rule that I know of, ie;

Automobiles are considered "antique" if the're 25 years old or more.

We're talking about the definition of "antiques" in reference to the 68 GCA, not the common-use definition of the word. The law gives a fixed cutoff of 1/1/1899. The date does not change unless Congress amends the law.

OTOH I don't think there's any universally agreed age cutoff for antiques under common use, or for automobiles for that matter. FWIW the age qualification for an automobile to get antique license plates is usually 25 years but it varies according to state law; it's 20 years in several states.

1776 Patriat · November 2, 2010, 11:44 AM

Most of your 'old car' type magazines pretty much go with the 25 year rule for autos. Sure, there are some states who go with the 20 year old rule but really,do you consider a 1985 Olds Cutlass an 'antique' automobile? As for the issue of an age cutoff for 'regular' antiques i've been dealing in antiques for almost 30 years and trust me, the general consensus among MOST in the business is 100 years. It's obviously not a written rule, but that is the cutoff for considering it an 'official' antique. I get a kick everytime I talk to someone at a flea market or auction who tells me "yea, i've got an antique washer machine from the 30's, or I have a antique TV from the 50's. The word antique is used by many for anything 'old', and that's a shame. Hope this helps.

Steve

October 23, 2010, 09:50 PM	#1
carguychris Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2007 Location: Richardson, TX Posts: 7,523	Antiques- why 1898? Does anyone know the reason why the year 1898 was chosen as the cutoff when a firearm is defined as a legal antique under US federal law? Was this tied to some sort of gun technology that emerged in 1899, or was it some sort of political decision? I'm curious. __________________ "Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules... MARK IT ZERO!!" - Walter Sobchak

October 27, 2010, 12:34 PM	#7
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,389	There's nothing I can think of that would make 1898 a slam dunk. As other said, smokeless powders were out well before 1898, as early as the mid 1870s for some very early nitrated wood pulps used in shotshells. It must have been an arbitrary decision. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

October 23, 2010, 11:09 PM	#2
m.p.driver Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 552	I think it's because anything pre-1898 is considered black powder cartridge.

October 24, 2010, 09:42 AM	#4
JT-AR-MG42 Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2008 Posts: 555	1. Maybe Smith & Wesson's Model of 1899. The first 'modern' DA revolver in .38 special. The date of 1898 also kept all viable semi-automatic designs out. 2. Possibly to keep most MG's out of the mix. Even though they were illegal unless registered, keeping them out of antique status might have made sense to some. 3. I rather think that the date of the law being inacted (68?) and a round number of 70 years to pacify the various factions in Congress at the time is closer though. Then as now, do not look too hard for logic in laws that are handed down to us from a bunch of alkies and failed businessmen. JT

October 24, 2010, 10:11 AM	#5
m.p.driver Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 552	The 8mm Lebel was the first first smokeless round in 1886,but i felt you weren't asking for a history lesson.When someone made the call decades later they had to settle on some date,so why not the point where they knew smokeless wasn't a passing fad.

October 27, 2010, 12:13 PM	#6
BTR Senior Member Join Date: July 13, 1999 Posts: 570	1968-1898 = 70 years. Maybe they just though 70 years was a nice, round number.

November 1, 2010, 09:17 AM	#9
1776 Patriat Member Join Date: August 24, 2010 Location: Ga Posts: 41	Antiques are generally considered to be 100 years old or more. There is one exeception to the rule that I know of, ie; Automobiles are considered "antique" if the're 25 years old or more. Why 1898 for firearms makes no since to me. Steve

November 2, 2010, 11:44 AM	#11
1776 Patriat Member Join Date: August 24, 2010 Location: Ga Posts: 41	Most of your 'old car' type magazines pretty much go with the 25 year rule for autos. Sure, there are some states who go with the 20 year old rule but really,do you consider a 1985 Olds Cutlass an 'antique' automobile? As for the issue of an age cutoff for 'regular' antiques i've been dealing in antiques for almost 30 years and trust me, the general consensus among MOST in the business is 100 years. It's obviously not a written rule, but that is the cutoff for considering it an 'official' antique. I get a kick everytime I talk to someone at a flea market or auction who tells me "yea, i've got an antique washer machine from the 30's, or I have a antique TV from the 50's. The word antique is used by many for anything 'old', and that's a shame. Hope this helps. Steve