30-40 krag in 303 british

Blindstitch · January 6, 2015, 08:09 PM

Ok here's the conundrum. My grandpa was a big reloader when I was younger and now that he's in a veterans home and doesn't reload anymore. He had lots of boxes of military brass with their fun and exciting head stamps. So most of the ammo is being tore down to salvage the projectiles.

The question is since I want to be organized in case of something happens and I label everything. But I learned 303 british can be formed into short 30-40 krag. I don't reload 303 so it always comes new out of the box. Will 30-40 krag formed out of 303 fit into a 303 rifle? And if so what would happens since they're pretty much the same load except projectile size.

Just don't want someone in the future seeing the 303 headstamp slam it into a 303 and experience who knows what.

Blindstitch · January 6, 2015, 08:14 PM

One fun example of my grandpa is he has maybe 40 boxes of 30-06. Several of those boxes were 30-06 now formed into 7.7 Jap. Glad I don't have a 30-06 or 7.7 or I might be the one sitting hours with a caliper figuring out which is which.

**44 AMP** · January 6, 2015, 09:59 PM

OK, the first answer is ..Maybe.

The specs say the .30-40 Krag is .422" at the shoulder, and the .303 is .401". SO, it shouldn't work, but it might, as .303s are noted for having "generous" chambers. And this would only apply to .303 cases fire formed into Krag brass.

Second, since a short krag (303case) load is in the ok pressure range for the .303, and since odds are good you won't get a pressure spike from a .308" bullet in a .312 barrel, if the formed short Krag round does fit and gets fired in a .303 I would not expect anything dangerous.

I've never made Krag brass from .303 Brit (I use .30-40 brass) but I have made 7.7mm Jap from .30-06.

Quote:

Glad I don't have a 30-06 or 7.7 or I might be the one sitting hours with a caliper figuring out which is which.

Its not really that tough, and won't take hours. All you need is one .30-06 case (that you know for certain is a .30-06 case measure it to be sure).

The 7.7mm Jap is about 1/4" shorter than the .30-06, and the shoulder is in a different place. Just hold a known .30-06 up next to the suspect case with the 06 headstamp and it will be obvious if it is still an 06 or not.

Clark · January 6, 2015, 11:29 PM

I have a cubic foot of once fired mixed 303 Brit brass from a pushy long distance salesman years ago.
So this last year I bought a 25Krag Ackley reamer and dies.
I want to convert an 1895 Win and a 91/30 Mosin Nagant to 25KA.
30-40 Krag SAAMI chambers are 0.459 -0.461" at the base.
303 Brit SAAMI chambers are 0.4575 -0.4595" at the base.
30-40 Krag SAAMI brass are 0.4497 -0.4577" at the base
303 Brit SAAMI brass are 0.4474 - 0.4554" at the base
30-40 Krag SAAMI brass are 2.294 - 2.314" in length
303 Brit SAAMI brass are 2.202 =2.222" in length
My 25KA reamer is 0.459" at the base.
My once fired mixed 303B brass is 0.450" - 0.457" at the base, sampling 20.
My once fired mixed 303B brass is 2.177 - 2.222" in length, sampling 20.
My notes say that some of this brass has primer crimps
I hope this works.

FrankenMauser · January 7, 2015, 01:35 AM

This is not advice, just opinion and observation.

As noted above, it might be theoretically possible to chamber .30-40 Krag in a sloppy .303 Brit chamber. With most cartridges, that's a bad idea, but this particular combination should not create dangerous conditions to cause excessive pressure.

That being said....
My Krag ran only with brass formed from .303 British for the first year that I had it. Once I was finally able to get some .30-40 Krag brass, I still only used about 40 cases. The other 150+ cases that I used were the formed .303 brass.
It worked just fine, and I actually came to prefer it (higher quality).

Blindstitch · January 7, 2015, 05:01 AM

Thanks for the info guys. I knew they were very similar all the way around I just didn't want anything bad to happen if someone stumbled across them and I hate wasting brass.

I mean if I'm at the range shooting the 303 with new privi ammo costing around $18 a box and 100 privi brass is $50 that box would be worth say $10 in brass. Just makes sense to keep it.

I think I have around 100 pieces of krag brass and my goal is to have 200 rounds ready to go.

Magnum Wheel Man · January 7, 2015, 10:55 AM

have you considered obliterating the original head stamps???

being a Contender collector, & owning a few old milsurps, & several wildcat firearms... I have many, many cases formed from another parent cartridge... when I can, I obliterate the original head stamps... my machinist buddy showed me how to knurl, then flatten the case head, which makes the original head stamp un-readable

I had a lot of the same issues as the OP, when we inherited my FIL's loading components... I spent quite a bit of time with brass & a caliper... but as already mentioned, many are far enough different, that they can be eyeballed...

Blindstitch · January 7, 2015, 12:07 PM

Can't say I've ever thought of that. Sounds like a good option.

Magnum Wheel Man · January 7, 2015, 12:16 PM

at least if they are obliterated, you'll know they aren't what they started out to be & accidentally get put in with the wrong cases...

one must still be diligent about keeping all your brass in properly labeled containers through out the reloading & shooting process... but it does prevent someone assuming that a cartridge is as marked, & putting it in the wrong firearm...

**44 AMP** · January 7, 2015, 01:18 PM

Using a colored "permanent" marker is also a partial solution. Red, Black, or something else you can easily see, Color the whole head. Won't help a stranger much (other than they might wonder why its colored and maybe check it out) but it will help you identify the reformed brass/ammo at a glance.

FrankenMauser · January 7, 2015, 05:57 PM

Just take a look at the shoulder.

.30-40 Krag and .303 British have notably different shoulder designs.
I could spot unmodified .303 brass from a mile away, when I still had the .30-40.

HiBC · January 8, 2015, 02:41 AM

My 2 cents.If there is a rim for headspace,and it goes in the chamber,if the bullet diameter is correct to slightly smaller,and the pressures are at an appropriate level,you will simply fireform the brass to the chamber.

All cool.

One thing to consider,the brass may be rather old.Depending on environment,powder deterioration,or who knows,the brass may have become brittle with age.Not necessarily,but maybe.Some case failure may be possible.
At least wear shooting glasses.Also,check the cases for length.A little short is no big deal.It it is over max length per the drawing,it can happen the case mouth gets forced into the chamber leade area.That can lock the case mouth tight around the bullet.The case mouth needs room to expand and release the bullet.Over long brass can jumppressures that way.

hartcreek · January 8, 2015, 04:42 AM

An easier option is to find the poster here that was looking for brass that he could form for his just inherited Kraig and let him deal with it.

**44 AMP** · January 8, 2015, 08:35 PM

Maybe its just my area, but I've had no trouble finding new Rem or Win .30-40 brass at the gun shows I visit in the last few years. I have several bags stashed away for future use (someday).

My .30-40 isn't a Krag rifle, its a Ruger. And my Krag rifle isn't a .30-40, its a 6,5x55 Swede.

Clark · January 8, 2015, 10:09 PM

I seems I bought this rifle 2 years ago, an old 1895 Win in 30 gov = 30-40.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/atta...0&d=1419053118

I made a die 2 days later.

I resized a 303B case.

I loaded it in the rifle and fired it.

I took a pic of the fired case.

Then I forgot about it.

Blindstitch · January 8, 2015, 10:10 PM

I haven't found any brass at gunshows for a realistic price in a few years.

I did locate some for $30 for 50 once fired recently but I'm still not going to throw the 303 brass in the trash. Better saved than trashed. Loaded up a box and it looks great. And the primers are all marked with a sharpie so I know they are special.

My Krag is a Remington Lee 1899 sporter customized from a barreled action by my grandpa a former gunsmith.

My dad also has the same rifle in original condition. And my uncle has a 3rd. These are Michigan National Guard rifles all in 30-40 Krag.

During the height of the shortage a local gun store was selling a box of 20 for $60. I will not be paying crazy prices and i'm sure they still have that box.

Blindstitch · January 10, 2015, 05:43 PM

Scored some brass today at Titan Reloading. Now I get to add 30 USA and 30 ARMY to the ranks of everyones confusion. Only thing that sucked is it was a mixed bag. 48% Remington of Various headstamps, 48% Winchester of Various headstamps, 4 percent Peters and one lonely piece of what I believe is Savage.

**44 AMP** · January 11, 2015, 07:51 PM

Back in the distant past, before I even had a driver's license and got around on bicycle, I got a Krag rifle. Don't remember now which model. Paid I think $15.

Rode my bike to Red's gunshop, and after rummaging around in the back for a while he gave me a coffee can about 3/4 full of Krag ammo. Charged me $2 IIRC.

A couple boxes worth of commercial ammo, including that lovely Winchester 180gr OPE, the rest marked .30 Army and .30 USA were all 220gr FMJ RN.

Wonderful stuff! Would still give you a decent size group after shooting through a 6" maple tree!!!

January 6, 2015, 08:09 PM	#1
Blindstitch Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2013 Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 2,693	30-40 krag in 303 british Ok here's the conundrum. My grandpa was a big reloader when I was younger and now that he's in a veterans home and doesn't reload anymore. He had lots of boxes of military brass with their fun and exciting head stamps. So most of the ammo is being tore down to salvage the projectiles. The question is since I want to be organized in case of something happens and I label everything. But I learned 303 british can be formed into short 30-40 krag. I don't reload 303 so it always comes new out of the box. Will 30-40 krag formed out of 303 fit into a 303 rifle? And if so what would happens since they're pretty much the same load except projectile size. Just don't want someone in the future seeing the 303 headstamp slam it into a 303 and experience who knows what.

January 6, 2015, 11:29 PM	#4
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	I have a cubic foot of once fired mixed 303 Brit brass from a pushy long distance salesman years ago. So this last year I bought a 25Krag Ackley reamer and dies. I want to convert an 1895 Win and a 91/30 Mosin Nagant to 25KA. 30-40 Krag SAAMI chambers are 0.459 -0.461" at the base. 303 Brit SAAMI chambers are 0.4575 -0.4595" at the base. 30-40 Krag SAAMI brass are 0.4497 -0.4577" at the base 303 Brit SAAMI brass are 0.4474 - 0.4554" at the base 30-40 Krag SAAMI brass are 2.294 - 2.314" in length 303 Brit SAAMI brass are 2.202 =2.222" in length My 25KA reamer is 0.459" at the base. My once fired mixed 303B brass is 0.450" - 0.457" at the base, sampling 20. My once fired mixed 303B brass is 2.177 - 2.222" in length, sampling 20. My notes say that some of this brass has primer crimps I hope this works. __________________ The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books." "Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist. Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?

January 7, 2015, 01:35 AM	#5
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	This is not advice, just opinion and observation. As noted above, it might be theoretically possible to chamber .30-40 Krag in a sloppy .303 Brit chamber. With most cartridges, that's a bad idea, but this particular combination should not create dangerous conditions to cause excessive pressure. That being said.... My Krag ran only with brass formed from .303 British for the first year that I had it. Once I was finally able to get some .30-40 Krag brass, I still only used about 40 cases. The other 150+ cases that I used were the formed .303 brass. It worked just fine, and I actually came to prefer it (higher quality). __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

January 7, 2015, 10:55 AM	#7
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	have you considered obliterating the original head stamps??? being a Contender collector, & owning a few old milsurps, & several wildcat firearms... I have many, many cases formed from another parent cartridge... when I can, I obliterate the original head stamps... my machinist buddy showed me how to knurl, then flatten the case head, which makes the original head stamp un-readable I had a lot of the same issues as the OP, when we inherited my FIL's loading components... I spent quite a bit of time with brass & a caliper... but as already mentioned, many are far enough different, that they can be eyeballed... __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

January 7, 2015, 12:16 PM	#9
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	at least if they are obliterated, you'll know they aren't what they started out to be & accidentally get put in with the wrong cases... one must still be diligent about keeping all your brass in properly labeled containers through out the reloading & shooting process... but it does prevent someone assuming that a cartridge is as marked, & putting it in the wrong firearm... __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

January 6, 2015, 08:14 PM	#2
Blindstitch Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2013 Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 2,693	One fun example of my grandpa is he has maybe 40 boxes of 30-06. Several of those boxes were 30-06 now formed into 7.7 Jap. Glad I don't have a 30-06 or 7.7 or I might be the one sitting hours with a caliper figuring out which is which.

January 7, 2015, 05:01 AM	#6
Blindstitch Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2013 Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 2,693	Thanks for the info guys. I knew they were very similar all the way around I just didn't want anything bad to happen if someone stumbled across them and I hate wasting brass. I mean if I'm at the range shooting the 303 with new privi ammo costing around $18 a box and 100 privi brass is $50 that box would be worth say $10 in brass. Just makes sense to keep it. I think I have around 100 pieces of krag brass and my goal is to have 200 rounds ready to go.

January 7, 2015, 12:07 PM	#8
Blindstitch Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2013 Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 2,693	Can't say I've ever thought of that. Sounds like a good option.

January 7, 2015, 01:18 PM	#10
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,846	Using a colored "permanent" marker is also a partial solution. Red, Black, or something else you can easily see, Color the whole head. Won't help a stranger much (other than they might wonder why its colored and maybe check it out) but it will help you identify the reformed brass/ammo at a glance. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

January 7, 2015, 05:57 PM	#11
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	Just take a look at the shoulder. .30-40 Krag and .303 British have notably different shoulder designs. I could spot unmodified .303 brass from a mile away, when I still had the .30-40. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

January 8, 2015, 02:41 AM	#12
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,288	My 2 cents.If there is a rim for headspace,and it goes in the chamber,if the bullet diameter is correct to slightly smaller,and the pressures are at an appropriate level,you will simply fireform the brass to the chamber. All cool. One thing to consider,the brass may be rather old.Depending on environment,powder deterioration,or who knows,the brass may have become brittle with age.Not necessarily,but maybe.Some case failure may be possible. At least wear shooting glasses.Also,check the cases for length.A little short is no big deal.It it is over max length per the drawing,it can happen the case mouth gets forced into the chamber leade area.That can lock the case mouth tight around the bullet.The case mouth needs room to expand and release the bullet.Over long brass can jumppressures that way.

January 8, 2015, 04:42 AM	#13
hartcreek Junior member Join Date: April 22, 2014 Location: Washington Posts: 1,549	An easier option is to find the poster here that was looking for brass that he could form for his just inherited Kraig and let him deal with it.

January 8, 2015, 08:35 PM	#14
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,846	Maybe its just my area, but I've had no trouble finding new Rem or Win .30-40 brass at the gun shows I visit in the last few years. I have several bags stashed away for future use (someday). My .30-40 isn't a Krag rifle, its a Ruger. And my Krag rifle isn't a .30-40, its a 6,5x55 Swede. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

January 8, 2015, 10:10 PM	#16
Blindstitch Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2013 Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 2,693	I haven't found any brass at gunshows for a realistic price in a few years. I did locate some for $30 for 50 once fired recently but I'm still not going to throw the 303 brass in the trash. Better saved than trashed. Loaded up a box and it looks great. And the primers are all marked with a sharpie so I know they are special. My Krag is a Remington Lee 1899 sporter customized from a barreled action by my grandpa a former gunsmith. My dad also has the same rifle in original condition. And my uncle has a 3rd. These are Michigan National Guard rifles all in 30-40 Krag. During the height of the shortage a local gun store was selling a box of 20 for $60. I will not be paying crazy prices and i'm sure they still have that box.

January 10, 2015, 05:43 PM	#17
Blindstitch Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2013 Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 2,693	Scored some brass today at Titan Reloading. Now I get to add 30 USA and 30 ARMY to the ranks of everyones confusion. Only thing that sucked is it was a mixed bag. 48% Remington of Various headstamps, 48% Winchester of Various headstamps, 4 percent Peters and one lonely piece of what I believe is Savage.

January 11, 2015, 07:51 PM	#18
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,846	Back in the distant past, before I even had a driver's license and got around on bicycle, I got a Krag rifle. Don't remember now which model. Paid I think $15. Rode my bike to Red's gunshop, and after rummaging around in the back for a while he gave me a coffee can about 3/4 full of Krag ammo. Charged me $2 IIRC. A couple boxes worth of commercial ammo, including that lovely Winchester 180gr OPE, the rest marked .30 Army and .30 USA were all 220gr FMJ RN. Wonderful stuff! Would still give you a decent size group after shooting through a 6" maple tree!!! __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.