Any pump actions available that do not require a trigger pull each time?

JimFromFL · June 19, 2002, 07:12 AM

Which pump action shotguns allow the trigger to be held back and have the firing of each shell be controlled by the pump action?

So, instead of pump, pull trigger, bang, pump, pull trigger, bang.... you pull the trigger and hold it back the entire time, pump , bang, pump, bang....

I thought to have seen this, but only available to military and/or police.

Does these exist and are they available?

HerbG · June 19, 2002, 07:34 AM

The old Winchester 1890 and its update, the model 62, could be fired this way - very, very fast. Maybe some of the model 62 clones that are still on the market share this ability. Probably some of the early pump shotguns also, but I have no personal experience with them.

Jim Watson · June 19, 2002, 09:05 AM

Winchester M97s, old M12s and old Ithaca M37s lack disconnectors and will fire on every pump stroke if the trigger is held back. Later models had disconnectors for safety, or at least company liability. I don't see a use for it, myself.

Al Thompson · June 19, 2002, 09:38 AM

My 37 will do that, but it has no practical value. I also suspect that it's hard on the gun.

If you want to speed things up, it's called semi-auto...

**Mike Irwin** · June 19, 2002, 02:30 PM

It's not really hard on the gun, but it can be kind of hard on you...

I believe Remington Model 10s were this way, as were most of the older Savage/Stevens pump guns.

Come to think of it, I THINK my Smith & Wesson 3000 will also do this. I'll have to check when I get home this evening.

GunGeek · June 19, 2002, 02:52 PM

Who needs it, with practice anyone can keep up with a semi auto. Trick is to stop thinking about trigger pull and racking as seperate motions, they should be one motion.

Load your shotgun, aim in and rack the action. Slightly start to pull back on the slide right before you pull the trigger, the idea is not to mess up your aim but at the same time assist the natural action of the pump to the rear after firing. When you fire the pump should go all the way back. Now as soon as you feel the slide stop ram your hand straight forward again, the shotgun will still be angled up from the recoil at this time, when you push your hand at the target it will pull the gun back down and on target. You need to practice this until you equate pulling the trigger and racking the slide as a single action to do every time you fire. You should find yourself racking the slide even if you know you are only firing one round at a time.

To see how it works try this, aim your shotgun down range, take your hand off the pump and fire one handed, the pump will slide back a little on many guns. This is the force your are assisting to rack the gun.

Currently I can fire 6 rounds in about 2 or 3 seconds depending on the load (target or buck/slug). Many people can not fire a semi accuritly at this speed. I had lots of practice in the Marine Corps so do not expect to be doing this over night. Oh, I am not a very big guy, only 5'6".

Dave McC · June 20, 2002, 05:21 AM

No practical value. A decent hand with an 870 or 37 can get followup shots faster than many folks with autos, especially non gas guns.

And GunGeek, that's a very good explanation, thanks.

Decades ago, the great Herb Parsons used to hit 7 handthrown clays with his Model 12 by "Holding down the trigger and pumping like H*ll". Recently Tom Knapp did the same with a Benelli with a disconnector.

It's the pianist, not the piano....

Hemicuda · June 20, 2002, 07:52 AM

In paintball, that feature on a pump gun is called an "Auto-Trigger" as was mentioned, my Ithaca 37 featherweight will do this... so does dad's Winchester 97... but the question remains...

WHY? you suffer bad accuracy loss and poor follow up shot control... what need do you have for this feature?

cuerno de chivo · June 20, 2002, 09:09 AM

"what need do you have for this feature?"

Fun.

Frohickey · June 20, 2002, 09:26 AM

WHY? you suffer bad accuracy loss and poor follow up shot control... what need do you have for this feature?

Why should there be a 'need' for a particular feature?

This is the same rationale that BATF uses for banning from importation certain firearms, because of 'no sporting uses'.

June 19, 2002, 07:12 AM	#1
JimFromFL Senior Member Join Date: February 8, 2001 Posts: 185	Any pump actions available that do not require a trigger pull each time? Which pump action shotguns allow the trigger to be held back and have the firing of each shell be controlled by the pump action? So, instead of pump, pull trigger, bang, pump, pull trigger, bang.... you pull the trigger and hold it back the entire time, pump , bang, pump, bang.... I thought to have seen this, but only available to military and/or police. Does these exist and are they available?

June 19, 2002, 09:38 AM	#4
Al Thompson Staff Alumnus Join Date: May 2, 1999 Location: South Carolina Posts: 3,611	My 37 will do that, but it has no practical value. I also suspect that it's hard on the gun. If you want to speed things up, it's called semi-auto... __________________ http://www.scfirearms.org/

June 19, 2002, 02:30 PM	#5
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	It's not really hard on the gun, but it can be kind of hard on you... I believe Remington Model 10s were this way, as were most of the older Savage/Stevens pump guns. Come to think of it, I THINK my Smith & Wesson 3000 will also do this. I'll have to check when I get home this evening. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

June 19, 2002, 02:52 PM	#6
GunGeek Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 287	Who needs it, with practice anyone can keep up with a semi auto. Trick is to stop thinking about trigger pull and racking as seperate motions, they should be one motion. Load your shotgun, aim in and rack the action. Slightly start to pull back on the slide right before you pull the trigger, the idea is not to mess up your aim but at the same time assist the natural action of the pump to the rear after firing. When you fire the pump should go all the way back. Now as soon as you feel the slide stop ram your hand straight forward again, the shotgun will still be angled up from the recoil at this time, when you push your hand at the target it will pull the gun back down and on target. You need to practice this until you equate pulling the trigger and racking the slide as a single action to do every time you fire. You should find yourself racking the slide even if you know you are only firing one round at a time. To see how it works try this, aim your shotgun down range, take your hand off the pump and fire one handed, the pump will slide back a little on many guns. This is the force your are assisting to rack the gun. Currently I can fire 6 rounds in about 2 or 3 seconds depending on the load (target or buck/slug). Many people can not fire a semi accuritly at this speed. I had lots of practice in the Marine Corps so do not expect to be doing this over night. Oh, I am not a very big guy, only 5'6". __________________ The Gun Geek Vero Firearm Academy

June 20, 2002, 07:52 AM	#8
Hemicuda Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2001 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,757	In paintball, that feature on a pump gun is called an "Auto-Trigger" as was mentioned, my Ithaca 37 featherweight will do this... so does dad's Winchester 97... but the question remains... WHY? you suffer bad accuracy loss and poor follow up shot control... what need do you have for this feature? __________________ Hemi. gun and car collector. Rare cars, and rarer guns.

June 19, 2002, 07:34 AM	#2
HerbG Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2000 Posts: 111	The old Winchester 1890 and its update, the model 62, could be fired this way - very, very fast. Maybe some of the model 62 clones that are still on the market share this ability. Probably some of the early pump shotguns also, but I have no personal experience with them.

June 19, 2002, 09:05 AM	#3
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	Winchester M97s, old M12s and old Ithaca M37s lack disconnectors and will fire on every pump stroke if the trigger is held back. Later models had disconnectors for safety, or at least company liability. I don't see a use for it, myself.

June 20, 2002, 05:21 AM	#7
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	No practical value. A decent hand with an 870 or 37 can get followup shots faster than many folks with autos, especially non gas guns. And GunGeek, that's a very good explanation, thanks. Decades ago, the great Herb Parsons used to hit 7 handthrown clays with his Model 12 by "Holding down the trigger and pumping like H*ll". Recently Tom Knapp did the same with a Benelli with a disconnector. It's the pianist, not the piano....

June 20, 2002, 09:09 AM	#9
cuerno de chivo Junior member Join Date: July 6, 2000 Posts: 919	"what need do you have for this feature?" Fun.

June 20, 2002, 09:26 AM	#10
Frohickey Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2002 Location: People's Republic of Kalifornia Posts: 579	WHY? you suffer bad accuracy loss and poor follow up shot control... what need do you have for this feature? Why should there be a 'need' for a particular feature? This is the same rationale that BATF uses for banning from importation certain firearms, because of 'no sporting uses'. __________________ Frohickey -- TFL Alumni SigSauer, if you are listening, MAKE A DOUBLE-STACK 10mm PISTOL!