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Old April 30, 2008, 08:12 AM   #1
E.J.W.
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conversion of measurement terms ????

In the world of shotshell reloading, how could/do I figure out how many ounces are in 1 dram of powder. Or does anyone know the answer to how many ounces or grains is equal to 3 drams of powder?
Thanks
E.
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Old April 30, 2008, 08:45 AM   #2
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EJW,

Actually, you don't. Yes, "dram" is an English unit of measure, which can be converted to grams, ounces, grains, carats, whatever. But, don't do it! Here's why.

Shotshells are designated by dram-equivalent. That is, the velocity has been standardized for that gauge and shot weight. Think of "dram equivalent" as a non-dimensional scale, ordinal but not interval.

Oh, and the original powder used to standardize the velocities, back in the mists of antiquity? Black powder.

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Old April 30, 2008, 10:50 AM   #3
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The other question is why would you want to? Drams was a servicable measurement for black powder when that was the only thing available but as mentioned dram equivalent was basically a reference point for velocity. Now velocity figures are readily available and usually printed on the ammo box.
In todays world of smokeless powers the dram measurement has pretty much become both meaninless and useless.

Also note that a dram is a measurement of volume whereas ounces are are weight measurement. However "grains" can be used either way and in the case of black power was/is a measure of volume. In smokeless powder grains is a measure of weight and could cause some serious problems if used in terms of volume for that application. Actually using the wrong standard of measurement in either application (black or smokeless) could be disasterous.
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Old April 30, 2008, 03:45 PM   #4
Mike Irwin
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DO NOT DO WHAT YOU'RE ATTEMPTING TO DO!

As the others state, you cannot do a value for value exchange on this, as drams are a measure for black powder, and it's an equivilence loading.

But, to make a conversion between two dissimilar measurements...

Google it.

Bring up the google toolbar and type in (without quotes)

3 drams to ounces

The result is 0.1875 ounces.

Now you can convert that to grains...

.1875 ounces to grains

That equals 82.3 grains.


And, the other two posters are right.

If you were to do a straight conversion for a shotshell load of the kind I've listed above, and stuff 82 grains of Red Dot, Unique, or some other shotshell powder in a hull, you'll destroy the gun and very likely injure or kill yourself.
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Old April 30, 2008, 08:19 PM   #5
E.J.W.
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Hold on here, back the truck up, call off the dogs!!!
I was only trying to figure out how many loads I might get out of a pound of powder for cost comparison of reloaded shells against store bought.
Believe me I would NEVER try what you were all suggesting I was doing!
I've been reloading metalic rounds for 20 plus years so I know better.
Thanks for the replies, but next time inquire about the intended use of the information before you lynch the author.
E.
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Old April 30, 2008, 08:25 PM   #6
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EJW -there are 7000 grains in a pound - when I loaded 12 gauge, I used 17.3 grains for that load...I load 15.5 in my 20 and 13.5 in my 28 - the math is simple to do

where the DR. equivalent can help you is on the recoil aspect....i.e. - 2-3/4 de is a nice lighter target load, 3 de is what wally world promo loads are usual, 3-1/4 de will kick the most and are usually "heavy" target loads....
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Old April 30, 2008, 08:47 PM   #7
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No one is lynching the author, EJW.

Relax.

You didn't post your CV so no one here had any idea as to your background, experience, or knowledge about firearms or reloading.

Your question made it strongly appear as if you were trying to do a linear conversion. As I and others pointed out, that's a bad, bad thing.

It's called erring on the side of caution.

These forums are liberally sprinkled with messages from individuals who are asking questions, the answers to which could be very dangerous to either their guns, or them.

And some of these people, based on their experience, should even know better.

It's only responsible that people who recognize inherent dangers point them out, not only for the poster's sake, but also anyone who might come along later and read the thread.
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Old May 1, 2008, 01:48 AM   #8
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EJW-
there are 7,000 grains in 1 pound. Divide 7,000 by your charge, and you will get how many charges per pound to expect (7000/charge= # of charges/lb). Divide the cost of a pound of powder or shot by the number of charges per pound and you will have the $/charge ($ per lb/# charges in 1 lb= $/charge).
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Old May 2, 2008, 10:17 AM   #9
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Thanks oneounceload & Scorch for your replies.
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Old May 2, 2008, 12:16 PM   #10
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Nobody was trying to lynch you. Even for you intended purpose I'm not sure the results would be accurate. As mentioned drams is a black powder volume measurement and not really applicable to a smokeless comparison in any manner. Because of the various burning rates of smokeless powder a 3 dram (volume) measure of smokeless powder could be 20 grains (by weight)in one, 30 grains in the next and 40 grains in yet another.

To get the info you require you would want to get the velocity for the dram equiv. load you are looking at then find a comparable velocity to establish an equivalent smokeless load. Even then such a load may be accomplished with 5-10 different powders in a vast range of weights. Whether you pick RED Dot, Blue Dot, Hi Skor or many others may reveal different results. Though in all honesty it is unlikely the cost of the powder charge would vary by more than a few cents no matter what powder you work with.
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Old May 2, 2008, 10:59 PM   #11
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Volume, not weight

As mentioned, Drams is an old English volume measurement, and weight has nothing to do with it directly. Google is a wonderful tool, but when they give you a conversion for drams to weight, look very closely and see just what is being weighed! A dram of flour, a dram of black powder, a dram of whiskey, and a dram of lead shot will all have the same volume, but considerably different weights!

Blackpowder shotshells were loaded by bulk, that is to say volume of black powder. In fact, one of the earliest "smokeless" powders was Dupont "bulk" powder (I think the actual name was PB, but don't quote me on that) which was loaded "bulk for bulk" instead of black powder. In those old shells, 3 drams black powder was replaced with 3 drams "Bulk" powder, for the same velocities and pressures. It was not as smokeless as modern powders, but it did smoke and foul less than regular black powder. My grandfather had some, it was about the color and texture of oatmeal, and burned really faast!

AS powders improved, less weight of powder was needed to achieve the traditional velocities, and the term "Dram equivalent" became used to denote the approximate power level of the shell, and the actual weight of the powder used (in grains) was something found only in the loading manuals.
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