January 22, 2008, 06:35 AM | #26 |
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I don't see a bullet hole that shows any evidence of tumbling to me either. I will get some of his bullets to test. I know how to shoot groups. I have two Kimber .45s that group under 1 1/2" at 25 yards with just about any descent 200 gr SWC cast bullet.
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January 22, 2008, 08:01 AM | #27 |
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Mike's offer...
All-
JMO: Either this Mike guy is operating out of guilt and wants everyone to like him ( I'm not thinking this is the case ), or he's one hell of a stand-up guy and is putting his product on the table. I've never used his products, but I am more inclined to give them a try. Also, from what some of his long term customers have said-sounds like my intial impression of being a stand-up guy is accurate. I use BEARTOOTH BULLETS out of my 444 Marlin (they are 325gr.WFNGC) and they are extremely effective on game and very accurate. But these are bullets designed for hunting. I've been looking for a bulk pistol bullet supplier...maybe I just have. Quality never costs more in the long run......Good luck to all! |
January 22, 2008, 08:15 AM | #28 |
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Idv
As a long time customer, I can assure you Mike is not "acting out of guilt", as you suspect he is not. As you described, I believe that he is a "standup guy", one who I will say speaks his piece/opinion.
Give him a try, I really doubt that you will be dissapointed in his product, service, or the way he treats you as a customer! Regards, SN |
January 22, 2008, 09:52 PM | #29 |
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Mike's offer...
On principle alone, I'd tell Mike thanks, but no thanks.
Bad taste all the way around from a member of the shooting community to come here and start crapping on a competitor the way he did. Shame on you guys that are standing by him and condoning his actions. No need to worry about my business either Mike. You won't be getting any of it and I'll be sure to point others to this thread so they can see for themselves who they're dealing with. Nothing personal to the shooter that posted the test targets, but that is some pretty bad shooting regardless of the bullet used. It proves absolutely nothing about the accuracy or inaccuracy of either bullet used. And, Mike, please point out the keyholed bullet for those of us idiots that aren't as smart as you are. |
January 22, 2008, 11:09 PM | #30 |
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Well, I was one of the first to bang on him for banging on Robert (Stonewall Bullets), so in Mike's defense let me say that subsequent to our first round of verbal fisticuffs, he was gentlemanly enough to take his comments off-forum and email me. We had what I would call a polite, productive exchange, and I don't begrudge him his opinion, although I do agree he could have voiced it more diplomatically. In any case, those of you who have dealt with him also have a right to stick up for him as a businessman, and there is no need to take sides here. Far too many threads, here and on other popular boards, degenerate into name-calling and put downs, and I think we can avoid such nonsense here. As I said, once I have his bullets, I will load and shoot them alongside Robert's and post results. You all can be the judge, but it will have to be with my shooting.
Joe D, I agree with you about not seeing the tumbled bullet, so I'll be glad to see your results as well.
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January 23, 2008, 08:54 AM | #31 |
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jhansman,
Please, please have someone else shoot the rounds for groups or use a different firearm. As I said before, nothing personal, but your control and test targets are not some of the best I've seen at those distances and muddy the waters quite a bit as far as accuracy is concerned. Please use fresh targets as well, so no one can go claiming there are keyholed bullets or anything else. |
January 23, 2008, 07:04 PM | #32 |
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And as I said, I generally shoot better than that at 15m. Actually, I had a buddy shoot some of the Stonewall bullets too the day I took those pics, and he didn;t do much better, and he's a fine shot. Lastly, all the targets I took pics of were fresh; I'm not that much of a rookie.
Once I have all this put together, I probably will have someone shoot with me, but no, I'm not going to hand it off to someone else.
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January 23, 2008, 10:53 PM | #33 |
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G. Costanza: Have you shot any of Mikes lead?
Im betting you havent......I have been shooting his lead for some time now, and I can say I dont think your going to find anything that will top it! If Mike says something else is not up to "par", then Im betting he knows what he is talking about. Maybe not the best thing to blast someone elses product openly, but when he makes the top notch stuff like he does.....its hard to argue when he is really only helping others by giving them a heads up on something that very well may be sub-par as to what one could have. |
January 23, 2008, 11:36 PM | #34 |
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jhansman,
I'm an avid 44 shooter (especially 44 Special), and am getting into casting my own (lead) bullets. Prior to that, I had a good caster outside of Dallas who made up some very good rounds. He talks alot like Mike--straight shooter. Last thing I want to be when it comes to my bullets and the hard work and years I've put in seeking the perfect reload, is BS'd by someone taking the short route in exchange for my trust, confidence and hard-earned cash. Here is a picture of a 12-shot group of 44 Special fired at 50', handheld, through a S&W Model 29. This is a typical group with this particular load and 240 grain LSWC. I shoot at a 3" x 5" blank notecard ala my military training. I've got groups as tight as this with the same bullet/powder load, and I've got some groups that are slightly looser, but not much. The pics you posted are more indicative of inconsistent bullets rather than shooting. If it were your shooting, more than likely we'd be seeing more of a pattern--but your group is about as random as it gets. I'd take Mike up on his offer (sure as hell wish he'd make ME that offer {grin}) and keep the same powder load for 50 rounds. Then experiement with some other loads. Then watch your groups really start to tighten up. Jeff
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January 24, 2008, 12:04 AM | #35 | |
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Quote:
I have a rifle match this weekend, and I don't think the bullets will arrive before then, so it will be weekend after this coming before I have anything to post. As I said before, stay cool and stay tuned....
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January 24, 2008, 02:25 AM | #36 |
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I Wish He Would Make Me That Same Offer
TexasSeaRay:
you got it. Send me your shipping address to [email protected] and I will send you 500 .44 240 grain SWC bullets to test for accuracy. This may be the last time I do this....I can't keep sending free bullets and still stay in business. Looks like we got a real shooter here. Mike |
January 24, 2008, 01:36 PM | #37 | |
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Quote:
I appreciate the offer tremendously. I'll even do you one better--I'll send you my shipping address along with payment for some bullets. Anyone who offers publicly to put their money where their mouth is has my confidence--and business. I'll load some up, head to the range and then post the results here. Jeff
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January 25, 2008, 05:40 AM | #38 |
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Seems to me like the price of bullets should start dropping soon. The cost of lead has come down a good bit.
http://www.kitcometals.com/charts/le...cal_large.html
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January 25, 2008, 06:14 AM | #39 |
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The price going down is going to depend on whether the suppliers to our suppliers want to bring it down.
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January 25, 2008, 09:59 AM | #40 |
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Since this thread is titled 'Stonewall bullets,' let me put in a note that Robert has asked me to let anyone interested know that he is behind a bit on production and would like those thinking of placing an order to email him first at [email protected] to ensure the caliber needed is in stock.
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January 25, 2008, 10:16 AM | #41 |
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TexasSeaRay-class
TSR-Good shooting and way to handle the thread and offer with class.
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January 25, 2008, 11:29 AM | #42 |
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It takes a lot of testing to determine if a bullet is accurate most shooters would never notice the difference in a fair to excellent bullet in a handgun.
Power, gun, shooter too many variables,takes days and many rounds to come up with good data. Pictures are a poor way to compare aside from the issue how much accuracy do you need for plinking and keeping cost down. |
January 25, 2008, 01:10 PM | #43 | |
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Quote:
As I said earlier, anyone who offers to back up their product out of their own pocket the way Mike did (and I do not know him, have never met him) in order to help a new reloader out the way he did with jhansman . . . that person/business has my respect and admiration. Those are the kind of people we, as shooters, need to be doing business with. Now I'm kinda itching to get these bullets in and sit down at the reloading bench . . . Jeff
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January 25, 2008, 01:12 PM | #44 |
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Mike/Mastercast.
I just went to your site and looked at the 9mm 125 and 147 and prices were good, but is that shipped or not and how many (site lists M, so is that per 1000 like the roman numeral M). I am looking to stock up and switch from Berry's and rainer. Also do you offer discounts to FFL's or fellow TFL members (I usually order through midway because they offer discounts)?
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January 25, 2008, 07:39 PM | #45 |
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Frost
Not answering for Mike, But as a customer I can tell you this.
Yes it is for 1000 bullets, and you can order up to 70 pounds for about 9 bucks plus a little insurance. I don't think Mike has updated his price list, to reflect about a 11% increase in his material cost. Go with him, you won't be dissapointed with his quality bullets and service. Again, not trying to "butt in", Mike will no doubt answer himself after he is done melting the lead, late at night. Regards, SN |
January 25, 2008, 08:35 PM | #46 | |
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Quote:
I have several tack-drivers in the safe--namely my Model 29, Model 686, and a 1911 style 45 ACP. I know these guns down to how they shoot varying weights and bullet-configurations (JHP v RN, 230 ball v 185 JHP+P, etc) I've gotten bad cast bullets more times than I care to remember in the past few decades. I keep pretty detailed journals and information on each load configuration I work up, and I keep the notecards I shoot at. Doesn't take but a few cylinders to figure out when I've got some p-poor cast bullets. I don't even bother to waste my time loading them up for plinking. I used to take them to a guy who previously cast bullets for a number of us and let him smelt them. One of the things they taught us when I was going to school to be a federal firearms instructor is that people shoot in habits or patterns. Of the hundreds and hundreds of new agents I taught to shoot during my TDY as a firearms instructor, I saw that to be true. Even people who are bad shots will still shoot in patterns. The pictures that were posted looked more like bad shotgun patterns and are indicative of a cast bullet configuration that has problems. Given the calibre, load and distance, the groups should've been tighter, and there should've been some indication of a pattern given the number of rounds fired. Neither were present. Granted, for relatively new shooters and relatively new reloaders, it's harder to determine what is good and what isn't working. That's also what makes choosing reliable, consistent, trustworthy and proven components for your reloading all the more vital for accurate shooting. Jeff
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April 18, 2008, 04:34 PM | #47 |
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Hello all,
I find it interesting no one has posted any results of their shooting with Stonewall bullets after making defamatory comments. Guess there are politicians everywhere - able to make claims without support. To get things somewhat straight - I have no relationship whatsoever with Stonewall Bullets or it's owner, Robert Green, other than as a customer. I've purchased ~6K bullets from him in 45ACP, 40 S&W and 9MM, and I guess I must be the exception, as the rounds I've made up and shot all seem to be more capable of accuracy than me - when I do my part, they go where they are aimed. Shooting the 45ACP 200 SWC rounds through my Springfield Trophy Match I could easily hold all shots in the bull at 20 yards - same thing with several other guns including one just purchased and shot by one of my colleagues. Seems to me if someone makes BS comments they damn well better be prepared to back them up, even more so when the comments are made by a competitor who charges a hell of a lot more and hides behind the old saw, " you get what you pay for." In this case you get a lot more than you pay for and I guess the competition isn't too happy about it! So all you who were so ready to throw the aspersions and condemnations around - where's the proof? If you don't (and I doubt you do) have any, at least be man enough to admit you were full of crap. Mike |
April 18, 2008, 08:14 PM | #48 |
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OK... I'll speak up. At the prices advertised I figured I'd try some of the 200gr .45ACP LSWC bullets for use in my S&W 625. The results I achieved using his bullets were poor.
This was primarily for use as a plinking load, so I used a known-good recipe, only substituting Stonewall's bullet for another brand which I was running short on. Starline .45 autorim brass (new) 200gr LSWC Win large primer 5.0gr WIN231 1.23" OAL My control group was shot from 25' off the bench, using bags. The bullet used was from CDP, a locally available brand. This was shot on an NRA SR1-C target. Group size was a little over 1". Using the same recipe I swapped to the Stonewall bullet and got the following results. This was also shot from 25' off the bench, using bags on an NRA SR1-C target. Very disappointing Robert @ Stonewall Bullets was very receptive when I contacted them about the results. He indicated that I should try a bullet with a higher BHN but gladly refunded my money for the bullets. Was I disappointed with the results?.... yes. However the customer service was great. Buy some of their bullets & draw your own conclusions. |
April 18, 2008, 08:27 PM | #49 |
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Well, by now I should probably know better, but here goes...
I had results similar to nbkky71 out of my SA Loaded 1911, only I'm not nearly that good a shot . The vendor referred to who did all the badmouthing sent me some of his product, and yes, they did shoot better. Not a lot better, but better. That said, I still would rather support Robert in his venture to become a quality bullet maker than, well, the alternative. 'Nuff said....
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April 19, 2008, 02:43 AM | #50 | |
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Quote:
Some of us did back up anything we said. Try doing a search and try looking around at some targets and results some of us posted before you come on here on Post Number One with a bad case of diarreaha of the mouth. Jeff
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