|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Today's Posts | Search |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
August 15, 2008, 02:25 PM | #26 | |
Junior member
Join Date: July 26, 2007
Posts: 3,668
|
Quote:
|
|
August 15, 2008, 04:40 PM | #27 |
Member
Join Date: August 13, 2008
Posts: 66
|
yes, I know, I'm retarded. I do know the type of powder, bullet and the case. I just didn't write down how much I used. I know the range, but that's all. I was hoping to get a weight so I could start there. I used a Berry's MFG 230 gr with Winchester 231 powder. I did make some notes, so I know it was between a 4.2 and 5.0 load, but as I have learned I should do, I didn't write down the exact amount. My primers were CCI large pistol. I know I put powder in them, and new primers. The only things I can think this could be is either I totally looked up the wrong load of powder, my scale is off (it was a hand me down from grandpa), or I am having some serious issues with technique (like crimping). I know for a fact that the bullets are close to the same size as factory, have powder and primers and by just looking at them, nobody seems to be able to find the problem. The guy at Gallinson's did say that my case mouth might need a bit more crimping, but it was hard to say. He though it was flared out just where the bullet met the case. The other thing he said is these bullets sometime behave as if they were lead and not jacketed. Anyway, thanks for all the help/chastisement. I am sure after some reading and a bit of help I will straighten this out.
|
August 16, 2008, 06:09 AM | #28 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 20, 1999
Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country)
Posts: 14,324
|
lots learned
I have oneathem 'adjustable' rubber stamps; I have three-ring binders; I use Lyman Reloading Data Log books (that I put in seperate binders under "9--357" and "40--45").
I record stuff in the Lyman Logs, 'lot' it with the rubber stamp, and also insert note-cards with the 'lot' number on it in each ammo box. Mostly; on some (rare) occasions I don't write up test loads, much to my eventual detriment. That way, when I grab a box of ammo from a shelf or crate, I can instantly look up its specifics. Wish I'd kept good records from when I started (I started a while ago....)
__________________
. "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo" |
August 16, 2008, 08:08 AM | #29 |
Junior member
Join Date: November 12, 2000
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Posts: 9,494
|
I wish I'd kept good records from the beginning. At first it was (225gr LRN 5,0 Unique) thats it! Now I list cal., bullet, bullet size/lube, powder & chg wt hand weighed or powder measure, brass brand, X fired/trimmed, primer, crimp, OAL, number of rounds loaded, lot number, and date loaded. In the log and on/in the box of rounds.
Life is good now. Awhile back I got to appropriate the mamas shelving unit when she bought new furniture. I stacked it up high with lead reloads. Hmm those lil plastic shelf clips don't hold up well to 1K's of lead reloads...crash and it all came down one day, spilling bukoo rounds all over the floor and they all mixed on the shelf & floor. I was able to sort out every single round and get them back in the proper boxes. I reinforced the shelves for sure. |
August 17, 2008, 09:28 AM | #30 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 20, 1999
Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country)
Posts: 14,324
|
literally
My shelves are supported by concrete blocks (bullets are made of lead.....).
__________________
. "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo" |
August 18, 2008, 10:04 PM | #31 |
Member
Join Date: August 13, 2008
Posts: 66
|
So I spent the morning reading Speer's loading manual. My version, the 1975 version, was pretty good, but this was insightful to say the least. I pulled the bullet from one of my casings and measure the powder. It was the lowest recommended for my load at 4.3. A couple of questions.
1) The bullets I am using, Berry's MFG 230 do not show up in my Speer manual. I also checked Hornady's and a few others and not there either. How do I find a load for an "unknown" bullet? Do I call Berry? 2) Do you all buy all the manuals, as they are all specific for their brand, or do you just stick with one brand (Speer, Hornady, etc?)? 3)I didn't know that oil can affect primers. This may have been part of the problem, when I would pull the trigger, the firing pin would fire, and nothing would happen. The primer DID have an indent, so maybe this was sloppiness on my part. Any thoughts? 4) Still confused about crimping. Speer says to crimp, but another manual said don't crimp as the mouth of the case in .45 is what is needed to seat the ammunition properly (I think this is referred to as headspace). So two new, printed publications, two totally different techniques. Who is right? Also, what is everyone's custom to working higher on the load? Do you do ten cartridges at one grain, ten at another, and so on up to the max and then go the range to see which performs the best? I will be keeping a lot better records. Thanks for all the help. I needed the kick in the pants to get me on the right track. thanks again. |
August 18, 2008, 10:48 PM | #32 | |||||
Senior Member
Join Date: July 13, 2008
Posts: 299
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
"Old School" ain't all bad... |
|||||
August 18, 2008, 10:48 PM | #33 |
Member
Join Date: November 19, 2007
Location: NorCal
Posts: 15
|
From Berry's website:
*How do I load Berry's Preferred Plated Bullets? Plated bullets occupy a position between cast bullets and jacketed bullets. They are soft lead, but have a hard outer shell on them. When loading plated bullets we have found best results using low- to mid-range jacketed data in the load manual. You must use data for a bullet that has the same weight and profile as the one you are loading. Do not exceed mid-range loads. Do not use magnum loads. Please proceed carefully. |
August 20, 2008, 04:13 PM | #34 |
Member
Join Date: August 13, 2008
Posts: 66
|
Thanks all. Lots of good reading.
Today I read in my XD-9 manual where it says only to use factory ammo, not hand-loaded. Do most gun manuals say this; is it simply a way of protecting themselves if one of us blows up our gun using hand-loads? I can't imagine that for some reason my XD will only take factory ammo. |
August 20, 2008, 04:24 PM | #35 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 13, 2008
Posts: 299
|
Quote:
__________________
"Old School" ain't all bad... |
|
August 22, 2008, 08:31 PM | #36 |
Member
Join Date: August 21, 2008
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 25
|
crimping it can help
__________________
My loads are 45. acp, 9mm, 38., 357., 7.62x39, 223., 308., 16 and 12 gauge |
August 22, 2008, 08:55 PM | #37 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 16,188
|
Your bullets are being shoved down into the case further because they're not crimped. .45 ACP should be taper crimped not roll crimped. The best way to get correct OAL on a 230 gr. RN is to measure a factory load with a set of dial calipers and duplicate the length. Some bullets like heavier LSWC's will need to be shorter in order to feed through the mag. The stovepipes are from too little powder or in other words, wimpy loads. They're not pushing the slide back far enough. I don't have my manuals handy so can't give you good loads for W231 and 230 gr. RN's but I use 5.0 grs. of 231 behind a 255 gr. LSWC. I seat them all the way down to the shoulder so they'll feed through the mag without binding. Seating them that far down raises pressure. Anything less and the slide doesn't lock back on the last round. 5.0 grs. of W231 with a 230 gr. bullet seated normally is going to be too weak.
|
August 22, 2008, 09:12 PM | #38 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 12, 2002
Location: MO
Posts: 5,457
|
W231 is all I load for .45 ACP and its a fine powder.
I haven't used Berry's bullets; quit using plated bullets back in the late 80's. basic stuff-
You want your loads to be-
You accomplish this by checking and double checking manuals, charge weights, powder containers, etc. Remember, this stuff is supposed to be fun and economical. It will be neither if you wreck the gun and yourself in the process. Be extra careful while you're learning.
__________________
People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice. |
August 22, 2008, 09:32 PM | #39 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 16,188
|
Sarge gave good advice. The only thing I'd do different is I wouldn't load that many rounds on the low end of the scale while trying to find a load that will simply function. I think five or so is plenty for function tests. It's a pretty sure thing(to me anyway)that loads on the low end aren't going to function well in a .45 ACP semi auto unless it has a light recoil spring. Once you have a power level that will function you can work on accuracy loads.
|
August 23, 2008, 10:14 AM | #40 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 11, 2008
Location: FL
Posts: 570
|
To add to what Sarge and Hawg said, I always make 5 test rounds of each test load for each .45 that I have. I do this because I do not want to find that one recipe does not function well in one of the 45's. If I get into some serious competitive shooting, then I'll load specific to each weapon.
|
August 23, 2008, 10:51 AM | #41 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 12, 2002
Location: MO
Posts: 5,457
|
I generally load 15 rounds or so for auto pistols & rifles, so I can run a couple of mags through the gun for sort of a function-check. If I'm loading for a bolt or lever action however, five rounds is plenty to get a chrono reading and a 200 yard group.
I'm probably the most boring reloader you'll ever meet. After doing this awhile, you will get pretty good at estimating where to start a given load. I can usually get where I want by the second or third attempt, assuming I don't already have a 'house' load worked out for a specific cartridge. Once I find what I need, I'll stick with it for decades. My standard .45 ACP load is 5.0 grains of W231 with a 200 grain LSWC of the Hensley & Gibbs #68 pattern. I use a Winchester WLP primer and any old brass; OAL is 1.250 and I run a snug taper crimp. It functions great, gives 826 fps on average and shoots into the same group as WW/USA 230 grain JHP's (my carry load) at 50 yards. Not much more I could ask of a .45 load, than that.
__________________
People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice. |
August 24, 2008, 06:18 PM | #42 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 11, 2001
Posts: 273
|
I think you need to make friends with an experienced reloader and invite him over to watch you load.
It's hard to tell, but it seems likely to me you are not seating the primers fully, either because the press or tool you are using is not pushing hard enough, or because the primer pockets are dirty. The post above that told you to check the barrel every time the round is "funny" is very important for your continued health. |
September 2, 2008, 11:19 PM | #43 |
Member
Join Date: August 13, 2008
Posts: 66
|
I have read and re-read. I found a good chapter in speer about using the carbide. I have resized, decapped, measured and expanded the case mouth. Ready to load some powder after priming. I am a little uncertain where to start. I know Berry's says "Plated bullets occupy a position between cast bullets and jacketed bullets. They are soft lead, but have a hard outer shell on them. When loading plated bullets we have found best results using low- to mid-range jacketed data in the load manual. You must use data for a bullet that has the same weight and profile as the one you are loading. Do not exceed mid-range loads," but I am still a little hesitant. Winchester 231 for the 230 gr HDY FMJFP ranges 4.2-5.3. For 230GR LRN, it is 4.3-5.3. Anyone have an opinion on what they would do? I know the last load I probably used 4.0, which I am sure was a big part of the problem. Should I maybe do 5 at 4.3 and 5 at 4.8 (midrange) and leave it at that? I don't think I will be buying bullets anymore that aren't listed anywhere. It just seems to uncertain. The process seems to be going well, and with my new handheld primer device, I think this batch will be successful.
|
|
|