Citori isn't cocking

Dreaming100Straight · January 22, 2015, 09:11 PM

After two shots today I couldn't open the breech of my Citori more than about 1/5 of the way. I was afraid to force it so I took it home to look into the issue. I got it open after someone told me to see if the rectangular piece below the barrel hook slides. It did and the gun now opens fine, but I don't know if that was the problem or something may have moved when I had the gun upside down. Anyhow, neither barrel is cocking. Nor do I hear the distinctive clicking sound of the hammers cocking.

The gun has 15 to 20K shells through it.

Any suggestions before I pull the stock to look at the innards of the receiver?

zippy13 · January 22, 2015, 10:17 PM

My friend, somehow, you've disconnected the cocker. Typically, as an O/U is opened, a forward lug engages the cocking ram. This lug may be part of the bloc or the forend release. If you didn't mess with the receiver, then the problem is with the cocking "lug". You need to determine the location of the lug and look for a possible misalignment or damaged element.

Dreaming100Straight · January 22, 2015, 11:22 PM

You are right, as usual, Zippy. Fortunately, the gun is now cocking. Perhaps it needs a good cleaning.

zippy13 · January 22, 2015, 11:55 PM

All's that ends well.

BigJimP · January 23, 2015, 01:21 PM

Glad to hear you got it figured out.

It would be unusual for enough debris to get inside the receiver to prevent the gun from cocking ( but you were smart not to force it )...and get the forend off..and carefully inspect.

I would recommend you take the stock off an O/U at least once a year...clean and relube the internal springs, etc / be careful removing the stock bolt.../ if the gun has an adj comb ...then you have to remove the recoil pad first, then loosen and remove the adj comb ( make some measurements on where it was set before )....and then remove the stock bolt with the allen wrench Browning supplies in the box.

If you gun does not have an adj comb...you still need to remove the recoil pad - but then the stock bolt has a standard slot in it ..for a long screw driver. Make sure the screw driver head fits the slot - so you don't bugger up the head on the stock bolt - or grind the screw driver head to fit it properly.

If you have the model without the adj comb ...I'd suggest you get a replacement stock bolt with an allen head / and one of the Browning long allen head wrenches.../ although you could use an allen head ratchet with a long extension as well....but getting the allen head wrench is cheaper.

Hang onto the receiver very tightly when loosening or tightening the stock bolt...sometimes the first time they come out they can be a little corroded or they might put a little lock tite or something on the bolt - so be patient../ you don't want to get too aggressive and crack the ears of the stock on the receiver end...some models are pretty thin in that area.../ the Citori is pretty stout ...

Dreaming100Straight · January 24, 2015, 05:11 AM

For anyone with the same problem, BigJim put his finger right on the cause of the jam, which I believe is unique to Citori's, which is removing the barrels with cocked hammers.

eastbank · January 24, 2015, 05:49 AM

how do you remove the barrels with out opening them,thus cocking the hammers? i just sat here trying to figure out how to do that and i am stumped. eastbank.

BigJimP · January 24, 2015, 11:52 AM

Most of us have done this a hundred thousand times...but we don't really think about it probably.../ and I'll discuss Browning Over Unders...

I store my guns in the safe...with the firing pins uncocked....(so after cleaning - you put the gun together - and before you put the gun away / you dry fire both barrels ) and relieve the pressure off the springs. But what it also means, is the cocking lever - that is at the bottom of the receiver - when you look inside it ...rests firmly at the bottom of the receiver ( it does not move up and down freely ) because the cocking lever will only move up and down freely - when the firing pins are cocked.

So I take the gun out of the safe ( its fully assembled ) but firing pins are not cocked.

I take it apart by removing forend...then I move the locking lever to the side and remove the barrels ( firing pins are still not cocked ) ...separate the barrels from receiver....put the forend on the barrels and put that in the breakdown carry case ...and put the receiver and stock in the carry case ( firing pins are still not cocked ).

Get to range ...and assemble the gun ...firing pins are still not cocked.

Cocking the firing pins only happens when the gun is fully assembled - you move the locking lever - you rotate the barrels down - and the firing pins are cocked by that action / when the gun is fully assembled at the bottom of that rotating the barrels downward. The gun is left open ...and you move around the gun club ( firing pins are now cocked).
------------
If you leave the firing pins cocked - which is what I think happened to Dreaming...the cocking lever moves up and down / which is ok, you can get under it for cleaning, etc.....but if that cocking lever is moving easily - you have to be careful when you mount the barrels to the receiver...because the cocking lever needs to be flat - and down - when the barrels go on, or it will bind. When I put the barrels on ...I hold the stock and receiver in my hand parallel to the ground ...but if your short..(like Dreaming ...) ...and you point the receiver up toward the sky and mount the barrels ....that cocking lever may move...and bind.../ ( just kidding about the short jokes...) sort of....

/ don't want to let the barrels drag in the gravel as you go to mount them on the receiver...

Dreaming100Straight · January 24, 2015, 12:44 PM

I am sure that what happened to me at the skeet field is just what Jim described. The day before I had broken the o/u open to fit some shells to its chambers and must have left the hammers cocked. When I got to the club, I opted to remove the barrels to lube the sliding surfaces. While the barrels were off, I may have turned the gun so that it was upside down (the trigger guard facing the sky). I then went to shoot my first game of he day. I loaded two, fired both, and proceeded to break the breech open. It would only open about 1/5th of the way. I could not open the breach regardless of how many times I removed and reinstalled the barrels, until I played with the cocking lever lifter. I could then open the gun, but it didn't cock. Jim ran me through what he just explained and the gun cocked. Since then I recreated the problem and sure enough that was it.

One thing. Are Citori firing pins ever cocked or are the hammers cocked? Think about it, Jim.

Just kidding. He did a good job explaining my XS Skeet's problem; a problem that had me more than confounded.

[This may be peculiar to Citori's. A guy with a Perazzi and another with a Belgium Browning couldn't figure out what the problem was. Nor could a gunsmith that contacted me about it, but he may have wanted to get me into his store where he could charge me bunch of $$$$ for things I didn't need. Now, thanks to the BigJim, you know and I know this little factoid. That Jim knew this goes to prove that sometime every one gets something right.

BigJimP · January 24, 2015, 03:42 PM

and I stand corrected - probably.../ but the firing pins recess into the receiver a little...when the hammers are cocked / so maybe its both...

but I'm certainly no gunsmith.../ but in fully stripping a Browning Citori ...I've yet to end up with any parts left over when its back together either...

( remember ...don't drag those barrels on the ground Dreaming )...

FITASC · January 24, 2015, 06:02 PM

Quote:

For anyone with the same problem, BigJim put his finger right on the cause of the jam, which I believe is unique to Citori's, which is removing the barrels with cocked hammers.

Watched someone do that with a 1905 BOSS single trigger.......OUCH! He had a heck of a time trying to put the gun back together.

eastbank · January 24, 2015, 07:21 PM

thats good to know. i never turn my o/u,s over to assemble or take apart, i guess thats why it never happened to me. i store my shotguns with the hammers down on snap caps. eastbank.

Dreaming100Straight · January 28, 2015, 02:35 AM

Quote:

and I stand corrected - probably.../ but the firing pins recess into the receiver a little...when the hammers are cocked / so maybe its both...

but I'm certainly no gunsmith.../ but in fully stripping a Browning Citori ...I've yet to end up with any parts left over when its back together either...

( remember ...don't drag those barrels on the ground Dreaming )...

Just messing with the you, Jim, but in a sense you are right, but you are wrong.

January 22, 2015, 09:11 PM	#1
Dreaming100Straight Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 1,235	Citori isn't cocking After two shots today I couldn't open the breech of my Citori more than about 1/5 of the way. I was afraid to force it so I took it home to look into the issue. I got it open after someone told me to see if the rectangular piece below the barrel hook slides. It did and the gun now opens fine, but I don't know if that was the problem or something may have moved when I had the gun upside down. Anyhow, neither barrel is cocking. Nor do I hear the distinctive clicking sound of the hammers cocking. The gun has 15 to 20K shells through it. Any suggestions before I pull the stock to look at the innards of the receiver?

January 24, 2015, 12:44 PM	#9
Dreaming100Straight Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 1,235	I am sure that what happened to me at the skeet field is just what Jim described. The day before I had broken the o/u open to fit some shells to its chambers and must have left the hammers cocked. When I got to the club, I opted to remove the barrels to lube the sliding surfaces. While the barrels were off, I may have turned the gun so that it was upside down (the trigger guard facing the sky). I then went to shoot my first game of he day. I loaded two, fired both, and proceeded to break the breech open. It would only open about 1/5th of the way. I could not open the breach regardless of how many times I removed and reinstalled the barrels, until I played with the cocking lever lifter. I could then open the gun, but it didn't cock. Jim ran me through what he just explained and the gun cocked. Since then I recreated the problem and sure enough that was it. One thing. Are Citori firing pins ever cocked or are the hammers cocked? Think about it, Jim. Just kidding. He did a good job explaining my XS Skeet's problem; a problem that had me more than confounded. [This may be peculiar to Citori's. A guy with a Perazzi and another with a Belgium Browning couldn't figure out what the problem was. Nor could a gunsmith that contacted me about it, but he may have wanted to get me into his store where he could charge me bunch of $$$$ for things I didn't need. Now, thanks to the BigJim, you know and I know this little factoid. That Jim knew this goes to prove that sometime every one gets something right. Last edited by Dreaming100Straight; January 24, 2015 at 12:53 PM.

January 22, 2015, 10:17 PM	#2
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	My friend, somehow, you've disconnected the cocker. Typically, as an O/U is opened, a forward lug engages the cocking ram. This lug may be part of the bloc or the forend release. If you didn't mess with the receiver, then the problem is with the cocking "lug". You need to determine the location of the lug and look for a possible misalignment or damaged element.

January 22, 2015, 11:22 PM	#3
Dreaming100Straight Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 1,235	You are right, as usual, Zippy. Fortunately, the gun is now cocking. Perhaps it needs a good cleaning.

January 22, 2015, 11:55 PM	#4
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	All's that ends well.

January 23, 2015, 01:21 PM	#5
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Glad to hear you got it figured out. It would be unusual for enough debris to get inside the receiver to prevent the gun from cocking ( but you were smart not to force it )...and get the forend off..and carefully inspect. I would recommend you take the stock off an O/U at least once a year...clean and relube the internal springs, etc / be careful removing the stock bolt.../ if the gun has an adj comb ...then you have to remove the recoil pad first, then loosen and remove the adj comb ( make some measurements on where it was set before )....and then remove the stock bolt with the allen wrench Browning supplies in the box. If you gun does not have an adj comb...you still need to remove the recoil pad - but then the stock bolt has a standard slot in it ..for a long screw driver. Make sure the screw driver head fits the slot - so you don't bugger up the head on the stock bolt - or grind the screw driver head to fit it properly. If you have the model without the adj comb ...I'd suggest you get a replacement stock bolt with an allen head / and one of the Browning long allen head wrenches.../ although you could use an allen head ratchet with a long extension as well....but getting the allen head wrench is cheaper. Hang onto the receiver very tightly when loosening or tightening the stock bolt...sometimes the first time they come out they can be a little corroded or they might put a little lock tite or something on the bolt - so be patient../ you don't want to get too aggressive and crack the ears of the stock on the receiver end...some models are pretty thin in that area.../ the Citori is pretty stout ...

January 24, 2015, 05:11 AM	#6
Dreaming100Straight Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 1,235	For anyone with the same problem, BigJim put his finger right on the cause of the jam, which I believe is unique to Citori's, which is removing the barrels with cocked hammers.

January 24, 2015, 05:49 AM	#7
eastbank Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2008 Location: pa. Posts: 2,450	how do you remove the barrels with out opening them,thus cocking the hammers? i just sat here trying to figure out how to do that and i am stumped. eastbank.

January 24, 2015, 11:52 AM	#8
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Most of us have done this a hundred thousand times...but we don't really think about it probably.../ and I'll discuss Browning Over Unders... I store my guns in the safe...with the firing pins uncocked....(so after cleaning - you put the gun together - and before you put the gun away / you dry fire both barrels ) and relieve the pressure off the springs. But what it also means, is the cocking lever - that is at the bottom of the receiver - when you look inside it ...rests firmly at the bottom of the receiver ( it does not move up and down freely ) because the cocking lever will only move up and down freely - when the firing pins are cocked. So I take the gun out of the safe ( its fully assembled ) but firing pins are not cocked. I take it apart by removing forend...then I move the locking lever to the side and remove the barrels ( firing pins are still not cocked ) ...separate the barrels from receiver....put the forend on the barrels and put that in the breakdown carry case ...and put the receiver and stock in the carry case ( firing pins are still not cocked ). Get to range ...and assemble the gun ...firing pins are still not cocked. Cocking the firing pins only happens when the gun is fully assembled - you move the locking lever - you rotate the barrels down - and the firing pins are cocked by that action / when the gun is fully assembled at the bottom of that rotating the barrels downward. The gun is left open ...and you move around the gun club ( firing pins are now cocked). ------------ If you leave the firing pins cocked - which is what I think happened to Dreaming...the cocking lever moves up and down / which is ok, you can get under it for cleaning, etc.....but if that cocking lever is moving easily - you have to be careful when you mount the barrels to the receiver...because the cocking lever needs to be flat - and down - when the barrels go on, or it will bind. When I put the barrels on ...I hold the stock and receiver in my hand parallel to the ground ...but if your short..(like Dreaming ...) ...and you point the receiver up toward the sky and mount the barrels ....that cocking lever may move...and bind.../ ( just kidding about the short jokes...) sort of.... / don't want to let the barrels drag in the gravel as you go to mount them on the receiver...

January 24, 2015, 03:42 PM	#10
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	and I stand corrected - probably.../ but the firing pins recess into the receiver a little...when the hammers are cocked / so maybe its both... but I'm certainly no gunsmith.../ but in fully stripping a Browning Citori ...I've yet to end up with any parts left over when its back together either... ( remember ...don't drag those barrels on the ground Dreaming )...

January 24, 2015, 07:21 PM	#12
eastbank Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2008 Location: pa. Posts: 2,450	thats good to know. i never turn my o/u,s over to assemble or take apart, i guess thats why it never happened to me. i store my shotguns with the hammers down on snap caps. eastbank.