Tactical Gear & Velcro

chucko · September 1, 1999, 09:23 PM

Has anyone else noticed that just about all modern tactical gear available to the public uses a lot of Velcro? ( Tactical vests, holsters, magazine pouches, etc ) Yes, its quick and convenient, but its also noisy, and when the going gets real nasty and muddy, Velcro just doesn't stick together anymore. Has anyone else had these problems? Have you found a solution? Or do I just spend too much time in the mud?

Chuck

Geared Up! · September 1, 1999, 09:38 PM

OK... all geared up for a tactical discussion on velcro here...

Yes, "velcro" like products are noisy, snaps would be less obvious. But as far as quality... Velco (the name brand) is a better sealer, can hold with a tremendous amount of force and takes a long time to wear out. Cheaper version (hook & pile) can load up with fuzz... be affected by moisture, dirt, etc, are is also less durable and less capable of holding during extreme conditions... but it's more silent then the hook & loop (velcro type) product.

Snaps wear and become difficult to snap. When they wear, they sound jiggly. They can become noisey, and tend to be not quite as quick. High quality velcro like products (hook & loops) take much longer to wear out and can be much more easily replaced (if necessary) than snaps. Snaps can also rust and corrode.

I've had to use two hands to pull apart some velcro secured products, and I am not a weak woman.

In the end in all comes down to personal preference and the quality of the product.

Geri Weaver

------------------
BlackHawk Authorized Dealer (BAD) - "Better than catalog" prices & free shipping http://www.geardup.com/gearedup.htm

chucko · September 1, 1999, 10:17 PM

Geri,

I wasn't trying to be critical of the gear you sell. It just seems to be an industry wide trend. BTW, Good info about the different kinds of velcro.I had no idea that different kinds of velcro existed. I just wish manufacturers would use the plastic squeeze clips like on GI M16 magazine pouches and these new square 2QT canteen covers.

I finnaly ordered the Omega® VI Assault Holster with Cover, from you for a couple reasons. First, it uses the plastic clips. These don't have the problems with dirt and mud that velcro does. Second, I felt the cover would afford more protection from the dirt and mud that the non-covered versions.

So your assistance was not in vain. You answered my questions promptly, and helped me to make up my mind.

Thanks!
Chuck

[This message has been edited by chucko (edited September 02, 1999).]

Geared Up! · September 2, 1999, 05:50 AM

Chuck:
I didn't think you were being critical, and my comments towared your observations were lighhearted. Think how rich we could be if invented silent velcro...

Does anybody have any interesting uses for velcro? We stick the youngest's stuffed animals to the wall with velcro... that way he can take them down and put them away easily, and the soft part of the velcro doesn't interfere with the cuddle factor.

Heavy duty velcro will keep an energetic toddler glued to his seat when you are enjoying a family meal... (just kidding!)

Got your order this morning, thank you! You'll be receiving a confirmation shortly.

------------------
BlackHawk Authorized Dealer (BAD) - "Better than catalog" prices & free shipping http://www.geardup.com/gearedup.htm

[email protected] · September 2, 1999, 08:16 PM

I brought up the noise factor to someone, and here's how they responded:

"Chances are, if I'm opening my Velcro it's because I just dumped a 30 round M-16 magazine on your ass, and if you are still alive after that, my worry isn't the velcro noise".

In other words, the only time you are going to be using it is when you've already made a lot more noise than the velcro makes, so why are you worried?

Spark

------------------
Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com
www.bladeforums.com

chucko · September 2, 1999, 09:16 PM

How about a situation where you've just identified a threat and are trying to quietly remove your pistol from you new Blackhawk tactical holster, so you don't give your location away before you are ready.

This is aside from the fact that once velcro gets covered with mud it doesn't stick together again.

Chuck

blades67 · September 3, 1999, 01:06 AM

If you have just ID'd a threat, you should have that threat covered with your primary weapon. If you are going for your secondary weapon on your tactical vest in this situation you've much bigger problems than noisy velcro.
BTW-if you don't open your velcro in the mud, it won't cause you a problem.

However, if you must open it in the mud, pouring water over the loop pile to rinse the dirt off will restore its holding ability. (Been There, Done That.)

------------------
May your lead always hit center mass and your brass always land in your range bag.

~Blades~

chucko · September 3, 1999, 02:19 AM

To cover your first point. What if your pistol IS your primary weapon? I don't recall ever seeing any of my officers packing M16s even on the battlefield.

We can banter back and forth about the situations and such, but the issue still stands.
Velcro does make noise.
Velcro does fail in mud.
Are the noise and mud issues a problem 90% of the time?
No, but why take the chance if you don't have to. I've lost gear secured in velcro'd pouches due to mud related failure. It wasn't in critical life threatening situations, but it was enough to make me think.

While in the military I never gave velcro much thought. The only places I had to deal with it were my Flak Jacket, Helmet Cover, and night desert cammies. Everything had snaps, latches, or buttons.

Since I've been out, and gotten into various outdoor activities. I have found that during extended periods in the field, my velcro has been a sore spot. Even though I haven't had to worry about the noise, I have had to deal with the dirt/mud issues. Its a royal pain when mud gets into the pile. Maybe you can't apreciate mud till you've waded through some good old Georgia clay mud.

Chuck

JMB · September 3, 1999, 10:25 PM

Chucko,

Pistols are secured in Blackhawk tactical holsters by a fairly silent buckle, not a velcro strap. Velcro is used for adjusting the holster to your desired fit.

[email protected] · September 4, 1999, 02:39 AM

Game, Set, and Match.

If you have a weapon holster for your sidearm that has Velcro as it's primary closure device, get a different holster. It's that simple. Fastex, snaps, whatever, but Velcro by itself isn't a good answer IMHO. As for mag pouches and the rest, see my answer above.

Spark

------------------
Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com
www.bladeforums.com

George Hill · September 4, 1999, 03:40 PM

A velcro holster?

I dont have time for Uncle Mike's stuff...

But vecro on other items? Sure. The 30 round mag agument is convincing... in a military operation - EVERYTHING makes noise. Velcro isnt that noisy. And it is a good closing device.

What about the toddler to the wall?

"Geared Up's Guide to Fun with Velro!"
- Not sold in stores...

------------------
"Supreme authority derives from a mandate from the masses. Not from some farsicle aquatic ceremony."

RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
The Critic formerly known as Kodiac

chucko · September 4, 1999, 05:44 PM

After actually purchasing a Blackhawk holster, I now see that there is a snap on the strap to secure the pistol. The velcro strap is only there as a secondary fastener. Just from looking at the pictures it appears that the velcro is the only fastening device.

One person suggested sewing on snaps or fastex fasteners onto the velcro straps of other Velcro Only gear. I think that is a great idea. That gives you the best of both worlds and protects you should either one fail.

In the desert, I've had the metal snaps get enough sand and grit in them that I couldn't close them, but dust off the velcro and it worked fine.

So it would seam that a combination of active ( snaps and buckles ) and passive ( velcro ) fasteners cover you in just about any situation.

Chuck

[This message has been edited by chucko (edited September 04, 1999).]

September 1, 1999, 09:23 PM	#1
chucko Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 1999 Posts: 151	Has anyone else noticed that just about all modern tactical gear available to the public uses a lot of Velcro? ( Tactical vests, holsters, magazine pouches, etc ) Yes, its quick and convenient, but its also noisy, and when the going gets real nasty and muddy, Velcro just doesn't stick together anymore. Has anyone else had these problems? Have you found a solution? Or do I just spend too much time in the mud? Chuck

September 1, 1999, 09:38 PM	#2
Geared Up! Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 1999 Posts: 106	OK... all geared up for a tactical discussion on velcro here... Yes, "velcro" like products are noisy, snaps would be less obvious. But as far as quality... Velco (the name brand) is a better sealer, can hold with a tremendous amount of force and takes a long time to wear out. Cheaper version (hook & pile) can load up with fuzz... be affected by moisture, dirt, etc, are is also less durable and less capable of holding during extreme conditions... but it's more silent then the hook & loop (velcro type) product. Snaps wear and become difficult to snap. When they wear, they sound jiggly. They can become noisey, and tend to be not quite as quick. High quality velcro like products (hook & loops) take much longer to wear out and can be much more easily replaced (if necessary) than snaps. Snaps can also rust and corrode. I've had to use two hands to pull apart some velcro secured products, and I am not a weak woman. In the end in all comes down to personal preference and the quality of the product. Geri Weaver ------------------ BlackHawk Authorized Dealer (BAD) - "Better than catalog" prices & free shipping http://www.geardup.com/gearedup.htm

September 1, 1999, 10:17 PM	#3
chucko Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 1999 Posts: 151	Geri, I wasn't trying to be critical of the gear you sell. It just seems to be an industry wide trend. BTW, Good info about the different kinds of velcro.I had no idea that different kinds of velcro existed. I just wish manufacturers would use the plastic squeeze clips like on GI M16 magazine pouches and these new square 2QT canteen covers. I finnaly ordered the Omega® VI Assault Holster with Cover, from you for a couple reasons. First, it uses the plastic clips. These don't have the problems with dirt and mud that velcro does. Second, I felt the cover would afford more protection from the dirt and mud that the non-covered versions. So your assistance was not in vain. You answered my questions promptly, and helped me to make up my mind. Thanks! Chuck [This message has been edited by chucko (edited September 02, 1999).]

September 2, 1999, 05:50 AM	#4
Geared Up! Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 1999 Posts: 106	Chuck: I didn't think you were being critical, and my comments towared your observations were lighhearted. Think how rich we could be if invented silent velcro... Does anybody have any interesting uses for velcro? We stick the youngest's stuffed animals to the wall with velcro... that way he can take them down and put them away easily, and the soft part of the velcro doesn't interfere with the cuddle factor. Heavy duty velcro will keep an energetic toddler glued to his seat when you are enjoying a family meal... (just kidding!) Got your order this morning, thank you! You'll be receiving a confirmation shortly. ------------------ BlackHawk Authorized Dealer (BAD) - "Better than catalog" prices & free shipping http://www.geardup.com/gearedup.htm

September 2, 1999, 08:16 PM	#5
[email protected] Wise Guy Join Date: October 10, 1998 Posts: 665	I brought up the noise factor to someone, and here's how they responded: "Chances are, if I'm opening my Velcro it's because I just dumped a 30 round M-16 magazine on your ass, and if you are still alive after that, my worry isn't the velcro noise". In other words, the only time you are going to be using it is when you've already made a lot more noise than the velcro makes, so why are you worried? Spark ------------------ Kevin Jon Schlossberg SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com www.bladeforums.com

September 2, 1999, 09:16 PM	#6
chucko Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 1999 Posts: 151	How about a situation where you've just identified a threat and are trying to quietly remove your pistol from you new Blackhawk tactical holster, so you don't give your location away before you are ready. This is aside from the fact that once velcro gets covered with mud it doesn't stick together again. Chuck

September 3, 1999, 01:06 AM	#7
blades67 Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 1999 Location: Chandler, Arizona, USA Posts: 6,014	If you have just ID'd a threat, you should have that threat covered with your primary weapon. If you are going for your secondary weapon on your tactical vest in this situation you've much bigger problems than noisy velcro. BTW-if you don't open your velcro in the mud, it won't cause you a problem. However, if you must open it in the mud, pouring water over the loop pile to rinse the dirt off will restore its holding ability. (Been There, Done That.) ------------------ May your lead always hit center mass and your brass always land in your range bag. ~Blades~

September 3, 1999, 02:19 AM	#8
chucko Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 1999 Posts: 151	To cover your first point. What if your pistol IS your primary weapon? I don't recall ever seeing any of my officers packing M16s even on the battlefield. We can banter back and forth about the situations and such, but the issue still stands. Velcro does make noise. Velcro does fail in mud. Are the noise and mud issues a problem 90% of the time? No, but why take the chance if you don't have to. I've lost gear secured in velcro'd pouches due to mud related failure. It wasn't in critical life threatening situations, but it was enough to make me think. While in the military I never gave velcro much thought. The only places I had to deal with it were my Flak Jacket, Helmet Cover, and night desert cammies. Everything had snaps, latches, or buttons. Since I've been out, and gotten into various outdoor activities. I have found that during extended periods in the field, my velcro has been a sore spot. Even though I haven't had to worry about the noise, I have had to deal with the dirt/mud issues. Its a royal pain when mud gets into the pile. Maybe you can't apreciate mud till you've waded through some good old Georgia clay mud. Chuck

September 3, 1999, 10:25 PM	#9
JMB Member Join Date: July 6, 1999 Location: Minnesota Posts: 59	Chucko, Pistols are secured in Blackhawk tactical holsters by a fairly silent buckle, not a velcro strap. Velcro is used for adjusting the holster to your desired fit.

September 4, 1999, 02:39 AM	#10
[email protected] Wise Guy Join Date: October 10, 1998 Posts: 665	Game, Set, and Match. If you have a weapon holster for your sidearm that has Velcro as it's primary closure device, get a different holster. It's that simple. Fastex, snaps, whatever, but Velcro by itself isn't a good answer IMHO. As for mag pouches and the rest, see my answer above. Spark ------------------ Kevin Jon Schlossberg SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com www.bladeforums.com

September 4, 1999, 03:40 PM	#11
George Hill Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 14, 1998 Location: North Carolina Posts: 11,546	A velcro holster? I dont have time for Uncle Mike's stuff... But vecro on other items? Sure. The 30 round mag agument is convincing... in a military operation - EVERYTHING makes noise. Velcro isnt that noisy. And it is a good closing device. What about the toddler to the wall? "Geared Up's Guide to Fun with Velro!" - Not sold in stores... ------------------ "Supreme authority derives from a mandate from the masses. Not from some farsicle aquatic ceremony." RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE The Critic formerly known as Kodiac

September 4, 1999, 05:44 PM	#12
chucko Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 1999 Posts: 151	After actually purchasing a Blackhawk holster, I now see that there is a snap on the strap to secure the pistol. The velcro strap is only there as a secondary fastener. Just from looking at the pictures it appears that the velcro is the only fastening device. One person suggested sewing on snaps or fastex fasteners onto the velcro straps of other Velcro Only gear. I think that is a great idea. That gives you the best of both worlds and protects you should either one fail. In the desert, I've had the metal snaps get enough sand and grit in them that I couldn't close them, but dust off the velcro and it worked fine. So it would seam that a combination of active ( snaps and buckles ) and passive ( velcro ) fasteners cover you in just about any situation. Chuck [This message has been edited by chucko (edited September 04, 1999).]