Arisaka bayonet

kungfucowboy · July 16, 2008, 08:28 AM

Hi all i live in qingdao, china (i'm an american teaching at an international school) and i was looking aound the various shops and saw a guy with a bunch of militaria on the walls as decoration. I ended up buying a bayonet. The guy said it was for an Arisaka type 38 rifle and was genuine. It was in a touristy area and was pretty used and rusty on the other hand it seemed to be decent quality steel (usually fakes are made from really poor material). I was only paid 100rmb (about $14.75) so it's cool enough as a reproduction(fake) that i wouldn't be too disapointed.
I was hoping, though, that someone here could settle i for me as to it's authenticity. The pictures i took are to big to put up here so i put them up on here

Quote:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=QN99FI3K

**Mike Irwin** · July 16, 2008, 10:50 AM

I don't see any pictures. I see the file name, but the only other thing I see is a continuous ad for some BS service called "megauploader."

kungfucowboy · July 16, 2008, 10:56 AM

dang it should be a link to download a file called bayonet.rar with 4 pictures inside. i use that site to download movies and anme other people have uploaded all the time. if some one can tell me a better place to upload them i will use it.

edit after checking the site: oh i see near the top of the page there is a place where you put in a 3 letter code that is just to the left of the box. input the code and then you will be taken to the download link. sorry about the confusion. if it still doesn't work i'm open to any filesharing or photosharing site i don't need to sign up for. thanks again.

**Mike Irwin** · July 23, 2008, 09:15 AM

You need to use Photobucket.

None of the continuous advertisements/hocking of a site like that one does.

Sorry, but nothing I did got me to your pictures, just more advertisements.

Tom2 · July 26, 2008, 07:42 AM

The Japanese bayonets often have some kind of makers marks on them. The information is readily available online I think. If you have access to ebay, there are plenty of them for sale on there with closeups so you can judge authenticity. I would be more concerned if the thing looks brandy new like it was made yesterday. Nearly all the ones I see here have perhaps blades in shiny good condition but with occasional pitting or wear. Lot of them had blued blades and the blueing is worn where it was in and out of the scabbard alot. All the ones I see here have turned brown on the outside and the wood scales show wear and shrinkage or look well used. But that might be the circumstances of being mostly captures or souvenirs. If you can buy real japanese bayonets cheap there, you can turn them for a nice profit on ebay. Look at the prices on them, they usually go over 100$ for nicer specimens on ebay I think. But study the pictures of the ebay ones. I think the fakes have odd modern looking numbers instead of the old style and the shape of the blade points is wrong.

kungfucowboy · July 26, 2008, 01:14 PM

i only saw the one and it was part of the store's decor. this one is either fake or well used probaby through both ww2 and the chinese civil war and then used by some farmer as a utility knife

i know there are markings but i couldn't find the ones that are on this blade online also the blood chanel doesn't look long enough compared to the pictures online. which was the reason i had some concern as to it's authenticity

as suggested i have used photobucket

Scorch · July 27, 2008, 07:12 PM

It sure looks like an Arisaka bayonet, but someone has sure beat that poor thing up. The hooked handguard is beaten so it curves too far, it was one a lot straighter. Blade shape looks right, and the hilt looks right. There is a mark on the blade right above the handguard, what does it look like?

kungfucowboy · July 27, 2008, 09:15 PM

it looks like 3 stacked cannon balls or a little like c8 or o8

**Mike Irwin** · July 29, 2008, 12:59 PM

It appears to be a late war Arisaka bayonet.

The 'stacked cannonballs' are the mark of the Tokyo Arsenal.

kungfucowboy · July 30, 2008, 02:32 AM

cool thanks everyone. looks like i picked up a neat little peice of history. i'm really glad it's not a fake.

**44 AMP** · July 30, 2008, 10:44 PM

I have one, slight variation, the grip rivets are oval on mine, and the tip of the scabbard does not have tghe little ball shape, more of a cylinder.

The "hook" on the guard has definately been bent at sometime in the past. It should be about an inch away from the scabbard, not almost touching like yours. Considering all it has been through, it is in fair shape.

James K · July 31, 2008, 01:30 PM

In a day when bayonet fighting was taken seriously, the hooked quillon was intended to catch or even break an opponent's bayonet blade. By WWII, it was either dropped entirely or used as a stacking hook. In the Japanese army, it seems also to have been used as a simple hook to hang other equipment on while on the march.

Jim

Tom2 · July 31, 2008, 05:21 PM

I have seen "japanese" swords on ebay alot being sold from China, and they pretty much look fake to me. LIke the cavalry sabres. The Chinese fakes have totally wrong form of numbers stamped or engraved in the blades. Look more like modern style numbers than the old fashioned style And the details of the shape are notably wrong. Presumably there was a lot of Japanese stuff left in China, but the stuff I am seeing for sale is just bogus, with no bids and real low starting prices. So care be taken.

Tom2 · July 31, 2008, 05:24 PM

My later bayonet has the straight quillon but it still has the steel scabbard. The details of my bayonet otherwise vary quite a bit from that one in the photos.

**Mike Irwin** · July 31, 2008, 10:14 PM

Everyone needs to remember that the Japanese used essentially the same bayonette pattern for nearly 60 years.

Within those 60 years, and especially during the later stages of the war, significant variations crept in.

Then there's also the fact that the Japanese manufactured bayonets at an arsenal they set up in Manchuria after the occupation, and there's some evidence that the Chinese continued to manufacture Arisaka bayonettes for some years after the war. The Chinese Army was, until the Communists took over and looked to Russia, armed largely with cast-off Japanese weapons.

They also took over operation of the former Japanese arsenal in Manchuria.

kungfucowboy · August 1, 2008, 06:20 AM

Quote:

I have seen "japanese" swords on ebay alot being sold from China, and they pretty much look fake to me.

one rule i use when i buy anything here in china. or anything you buy, pay what you think a fake is worth. that way you have a cool souvenieer if it's fake and a nice peice of hitory if it's real.

there is so much fake stuff here. and it's not just in the shady stores even the foreign owned supermarkets get fake stuff quite a bit. that's why i asked and posted questions here

July 16, 2008, 10:50 AM	#2
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	I don't see any pictures. I see the file name, but the only other thing I see is a continuous ad for some BS service called "megauploader." __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

July 23, 2008, 09:15 AM	#4
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	You need to use Photobucket. None of the continuous advertisements/hocking of a site like that one does. Sorry, but nothing I did got me to your pictures, just more advertisements. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

July 26, 2008, 07:42 AM	#5
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	The Japanese bayonets often have some kind of makers marks on them. The information is readily available online I think. If you have access to ebay, there are plenty of them for sale on there with closeups so you can judge authenticity. I would be more concerned if the thing looks brandy new like it was made yesterday. Nearly all the ones I see here have perhaps blades in shiny good condition but with occasional pitting or wear. Lot of them had blued blades and the blueing is worn where it was in and out of the scabbard alot. All the ones I see here have turned brown on the outside and the wood scales show wear and shrinkage or look well used. But that might be the circumstances of being mostly captures or souvenirs. If you can buy real japanese bayonets cheap there, you can turn them for a nice profit on ebay. Look at the prices on them, they usually go over 100$ for nicer specimens on ebay I think. But study the pictures of the ebay ones. I think the fakes have odd modern looking numbers instead of the old style and the shape of the blade points is wrong. __________________ Your gun is like your nose, it is just wrong for someone else to pick it for you!

July 27, 2008, 07:12 PM	#7
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	It sure looks like an Arisaka bayonet, but someone has sure beat that poor thing up. The hooked handguard is beaten so it curves too far, it was one a lot straighter. Blade shape looks right, and the hilt looks right. There is a mark on the blade right above the handguard, what does it look like? __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

July 29, 2008, 12:59 PM	#9
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	It appears to be a late war Arisaka bayonet. The 'stacked cannonballs' are the mark of the Tokyo Arsenal. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

July 16, 2008, 10:56 AM	#3
kungfucowboy Member Join Date: July 18, 2005 Posts: 61	dang it should be a link to download a file called bayonet.rar with 4 pictures inside. i use that site to download movies and anme other people have uploaded all the time. if some one can tell me a better place to upload them i will use it. edit after checking the site: oh i see near the top of the page there is a place where you put in a 3 letter code that is just to the left of the box. input the code and then you will be taken to the download link. sorry about the confusion. if it still doesn't work i'm open to any filesharing or photosharing site i don't need to sign up for. thanks again.

July 26, 2008, 01:14 PM	#6
kungfucowboy Member Join Date: July 18, 2005 Posts: 61	i only saw the one and it was part of the store's decor. this one is either fake or well used probaby through both ww2 and the chinese civil war and then used by some farmer as a utility knife i know there are markings but i couldn't find the ones that are on this blade online also the blood chanel doesn't look long enough compared to the pictures online. which was the reason i had some concern as to it's authenticity as suggested i have used photobucket

July 27, 2008, 09:15 PM	#8
kungfucowboy Member Join Date: July 18, 2005 Posts: 61	it looks like 3 stacked cannon balls or a little like c8 or o8

July 30, 2008, 02:32 AM	#10
kungfucowboy Member Join Date: July 18, 2005 Posts: 61	cool thanks everyone. looks like i picked up a neat little peice of history. i'm really glad it's not a fake.

July 30, 2008, 10:44 PM	#11
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,850	Looks like the real thing I have one, slight variation, the grip rivets are oval on mine, and the tip of the scabbard does not have tghe little ball shape, more of a cylinder. The "hook" on the guard has definately been bent at sometime in the past. It should be about an inch away from the scabbard, not almost touching like yours. Considering all it has been through, it is in fair shape. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

July 31, 2008, 01:30 PM	#12
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	In a day when bayonet fighting was taken seriously, the hooked quillon was intended to catch or even break an opponent's bayonet blade. By WWII, it was either dropped entirely or used as a stacking hook. In the Japanese army, it seems also to have been used as a simple hook to hang other equipment on while on the march. Jim

July 31, 2008, 05:21 PM	#13
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	I have seen "japanese" swords on ebay alot being sold from China, and they pretty much look fake to me. LIke the cavalry sabres. The Chinese fakes have totally wrong form of numbers stamped or engraved in the blades. Look more like modern style numbers than the old fashioned style And the details of the shape are notably wrong. Presumably there was a lot of Japanese stuff left in China, but the stuff I am seeing for sale is just bogus, with no bids and real low starting prices. So care be taken. __________________ Your gun is like your nose, it is just wrong for someone else to pick it for you!

July 31, 2008, 05:24 PM	#14
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	My later bayonet has the straight quillon but it still has the steel scabbard. The details of my bayonet otherwise vary quite a bit from that one in the photos. __________________ Your gun is like your nose, it is just wrong for someone else to pick it for you!

July 31, 2008, 10:14 PM	#15
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	Everyone needs to remember that the Japanese used essentially the same bayonette pattern for nearly 60 years. Within those 60 years, and especially during the later stages of the war, significant variations crept in. Then there's also the fact that the Japanese manufactured bayonets at an arsenal they set up in Manchuria after the occupation, and there's some evidence that the Chinese continued to manufacture Arisaka bayonettes for some years after the war. The Chinese Army was, until the Communists took over and looked to Russia, armed largely with cast-off Japanese weapons. They also took over operation of the former Japanese arsenal in Manchuria. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.