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Old October 20, 2016, 10:58 PM   #26
Wyosmith
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I do!

They are super good on game from both 30-06 and 300 H&H.
I hand load only, and I use the Hornady and the Nosler.

I have loaded the Sierra's in the past for friends in Idaho and they tell me the loads are very effective on elk. Personally I have never loaded any Sierras for myself, but I suspect they would be fine based on what my friends have told me.
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Old October 20, 2016, 11:23 PM   #27
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If Wayne Short's books about homesteading in coastal Alaska are representative for the territory, then the 30-'06 with 220 grain bullets was considered fairly standard for the Brown Bears up there, lesser ammo and calibers were deemed unreliable, especially when being charged by the Bear.
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Old October 21, 2016, 02:32 AM   #28
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premium bullet

I suspect the modern "premium bullet" in the 165-180 weight has largely superseded 200-220 class when shooting really big critters with .30 cal. HIgher velocity, flatter trajectory, and likely the same penetration and lethality, all with less recoil.

I have an Interarms Mark X carbine that shoots 200 gr Partitions very well, but the recoil is fierce when trying to get the higher velocities in the manuals. Loaded to Krag speeds, is much more tolerable. But 180's, loaded to .300 Savage velocities, kills whitetails just as well, and is soft shooting and a bit flatter too.
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Old October 21, 2016, 05:56 AM   #29
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I shot some 220 corelock at the range a week ago. The recoil was not 'fierce'. Not even close. If blind folded, I doubt I would be able to guess what bullet weight I was shooting, 180 or 220. Side by side you can tell, but just given one round and a bling fold, I would never know. I dont have any immediate need for a 220 and that is the simple answer for the OP. No deep mystery or ignorance going on here. I got better accuracy from 180 Nosler partition and it is a better bullet- IMHO (better than corelock).

I am not handloading and I dont see much 220 on the shelf. I assume it is due to where I live and local needs.

I think the shooting public is coming around to understand the benifit of heavy for caliber bullets. I wish we had more 06 220gr worthy prey to shoot. Did they load a 220 FMJ at one time?
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Old October 21, 2016, 08:13 AM   #30
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Whee! Necrothreadia!

As with the .223, the answer (mostly) is bullet maker R&D. While 150-grain bullets will kill any whitetail or mulie in NA, many hunters report success on elk with 165-grain and 180-grain bullets. So, it's a case of little demand at the retail level.
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Old October 22, 2016, 05:14 AM   #31
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I can see a number of problems with this. Lots of little problems. The end of the story for me, at least, is that the 06 is just not designed to fire the long, heavy, case filling bullet. I don't know if it will be overall an effective round for anything but shorter ranges around 200 300 yards. I see it being turned into essentially a stronger version of the 30 30.

It has a lot of good points. If all of the questions I have can be addressed and it can be actually used with effective velocity, twist at the right pitch, efficent loads, magazine length, etc, we still have the question of whether a round nose that is so heavy will be capable of expanding properly and quickly enough at only 2400 fps to actually do the job needed on medium sized game, rather than just blowing through.

People use the 3030 with 170 grain round nose bullets at 2400 gps to get good results. I see that as an indication that it would work well, but just have reservations.

At 300 it is down around two feet, at 400 it is down almost four feet. that's over twenty inches more drop than a 150. Not much room for range finding error.

I still think that it will kill nearly anything in the lower states deader than a dollar. Will it be an truly optimal deer or hog round, coyote, antelope, long range elk, etc round? Not at all, but it will work. I think that it would be one heck of a round for close range elk and big mule deer, larger black bear, bigger, beefier critters that need a long hole in them. Myself, if I was hunting big and heavy game such as the big elk, unless I was expecting 300 yard shots, it might be my choice over the 150. I would be inclined to use it on a heavy black bear, maybe grizzly, but why bother on the scrawny little bears we have down here that are the size of a fat bottomed mastiff?
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Old October 22, 2016, 07:40 AM   #32
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I guess in the first go-around of this topic 14 years ago they didn't have the option of Berger VLD 220 gr. Great bullets out of a 300 RUM.
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Old October 22, 2016, 09:44 AM   #33
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In case wooly mammoths trample my flower beds, I keep a 30-06 behind the kitchen door loaded with 220 RNs. An adult male can go 8 tons.

The word must be out, I haven't seen one yet.
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Old October 22, 2016, 11:41 AM   #34
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I didn't realize this thread was resurrected until I saw CR Sam's first post. I always when I see his name; one reason I don't mind an old thread. Sorry for the veer.
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Old October 22, 2016, 08:29 PM   #35
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I have no doubt that a bison would go down. It may take a follow-up to really nail it down for good.
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Old October 23, 2016, 11:30 AM   #36
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I am pretty sure that Fin Aagard and Phil shoemaker a guide in Alaska tested 30-06 220 bullets for penetration against all big game calibers and the .30 220 bullet was only barely beat by the 375 H&H. so I would guess the velocity was just right and higher speed could not match it
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Old October 23, 2016, 12:20 PM   #37
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Finn aagard was a brilliant man the likes of Jack o Connor.

The fact is that the .308 caliber 220 grain has the highest sectional density of any modern "normal" hunting bullet. The .338 nd .416 come close but only the .458 exceeds it, only by .341 vs ..331. Most non magnum rounds with high sectional density are in a higher velocity range, but whether or not a 7mm non magnum heavy weight will perform as well as the 30-06 .220 is uncertain.
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Old October 23, 2016, 12:50 PM   #38
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Briandg, back in my late 20s I guided hunters in Idaho and I saw a LOT of 7mm Mags used with various bullets. the 175 gr bullet did the very best on elk. However I started loaded the 220 grain Hornady and Remington bullet for my friends there (Remington would still sell them as a component then) and from the 30-06 and one 300 Win Mag, the 220s would always out preform all the 7MM Mags in every instance. The 7MM Was flatter shooting, but that was not important hunting in the Selway wilderness. Most shots were quite close.

The wounds from 220 grain bullets from the 30-06 and the 300 were always a bit larger in diameter then the ones made by the 7MMs, and I never recovered a single 220 grain 30 cal, where I did recover about half of the 7MMs.

These 220 gr 30 caliber bullets would shoot through large bull elk even if they were strongly quartering away, and just go off and hit trees after they left the bulls. The the wounds were large and deadly in diameter too. Probably 1/4 bigger around then what I saw with the 7MM mags.

The 175 grain 7MMs would always exit and so did the 160 gr Nosler Partitions, but the 150 and 154 grain bullets didn't always exit. And I cannot recall ever having an exit with a 7MM of 145 grains or lighter.

This is due to bullet construction, not just weight I am sure.

I have shot a number of elk with 150 grain Remington Core-lock bullets from 270s and I never recovered one of them either, but the jackets of them are very thick and they never come apart on elk.

If you look at this picture you can see the 150 gr .277" Remington bullet next to a 200 grain Speer 8MM bullet.




Anyway, just a few points of interest for you and other readers who may be interested.
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Old October 23, 2016, 01:43 PM   #39
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I wish I could say this with certainty, but Frank Barnes started out making super heavy weight bracketed bullets, maybe up tob250 even. People rebarreled so those ultra long rounds would work. You could fire a round with a .300 magnum and wind up with almost 150 grains remaining after full penetration.

Extreme.
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Old October 23, 2016, 08:44 PM   #40
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I would think that the velocity at 2400 fps in the 06 is the perfect match for the SD of the 220 grain bullet. I would think at a higher velocity in a magnum the same bullet would be erratic and not plow thru in a straight line glancing off bone and losing depth of penetration. years ago Brian Pearce in Africa used a Marlin 45/70 which his guide had no faith in on a cape buffalo not seeing a cow behind the massive bull. the hard cast bullet at around 1500 fps went thru the shoulders of the male thru the cow and killed them both. again the perfect speed for that bullet. the guide wanted to buy the same rifle

Last edited by salt and battery; October 24, 2016 at 08:02 AM.
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Old October 23, 2016, 09:37 PM   #41
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Roosevelt's African safari is an education of how completely dead you can make big African critters with primitive weapons like a Springfield and a .405 lever gun.

I'm not endorsing using light rounds, I'm endorsing selection of rounds that are appropriate. Using a .460 weatherby or .600 ne on kudzu, buffalo, or other massive game is fine, but it's not necessary. There is a big difference between choosing to use a substandard round like .243 on a great big zebra, and using the round in question, rather than a .375.

African game, for the big animals, I might use a bigger round, myself, but with backup, there's no reason to use a monster gun if you don't want to.

Jack o Connor killed everything in the world with a .270, it works, but it isn't ideal. He also had backup.

I don't know but the solid copper X bullet would maybe be a good idea. It would flatten the trajectory, track through like a laser, leave a good hole, and not stop for anything.

This round is entirely different from the traditional shooting philosophy of 3,000 and up with moderate weight expanding bullets, and much closer to the the old school BP rounds.
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Old October 24, 2016, 12:42 AM   #42
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Why don't people use 220 grain bullets in .30-06s andd 300 magnums

I don't use them and most don't because the biggest game we have to hunt around her is deer.
There aare several here that hunt hogs and it would be dandy on monster but it is not usually called on.
In the magnums we are looking to reach out way out and kill the game. Lighter bullets are faster and flatter shooting. However heavy bullets out of either caliber will reach out a long way but a mite more elevation.
A 220 grain on a deer would be a lot of bullet.
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Old October 24, 2016, 01:32 AM   #43
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FMJ

I have in my bullet assortment, a 100 ct box of Hornady, .30 cal, 220 gr RN/FMJ. I'd guess that box of slugs is near 50 yrs old.

I have not had them out for inspection lately, but I seem to recall the bullet has two jackets, a copper sheath exterior, and a steel one underneath, with a lead core. Seems like they would pull a magnet. That is from memory, I could be wrong about the jackets.

But they are indeed one massive slug. They are not for sale, as I am keeping them for mastodon and T-Rex hunts.
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Old October 24, 2016, 08:56 AM   #44
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I have loaded 200/220/240 grain slugs, both for plinking and hunting in .308 for use in my Encore 10" barrel. They can be fun with a smaller charge of a faster powder. I will use the 240s at around 1000 fps to practice shooting the Encore for a little less recoil and a little less cost than the .414 SuperMag.

I did load 220 and 240s for the 300Mag though, I don't think my 300WM ever had a bullet under 200 grains through it. It was a range gun only with a comp on it. I sold it a few years back.

Have only ever shot up to 180 grain in the .30-06. When I want a heavier bullet, I go to the .338-06 where I shoot from 185 to 250 grain slugs.
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Old October 24, 2016, 03:02 PM   #45
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RECOIL!

Art Eatman nailed it. Why punish yourself when you don't have to?

The vast majority of hunters who use the 30.06 are after whitetail deer. These animals just don't require the knockdown power of a 220gr. bullet pushed @ 30.06 velocities.

The real question should be -- "Why isn't the 30.06 with 220gr bullets more popular for larger game animals than the so called "Magnum" cartridges?

And The Answer Is----"MAGNUM MANIA!"
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Old October 25, 2016, 07:06 AM   #46
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yes jumpin geezer you nailed it. the penetration of the 220 on large game is excellent
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Old October 31, 2016, 09:10 AM   #47
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Well, I guess that you're right. The 180 or even a smaller grain bullet probably would have worked just as good. However, when I shot the hog at about 60 yrds, I nailed it right on the side of of the head and it folded up like a cheap suit. I am actually quite surprised at the accuracy of these at 100yrds. I was shooting groups within the space of a nickel. I had acquirwd these from a friend who passed and I figured this would be an homage to him using his bullets and his powder.

Mike
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Old October 31, 2016, 09:33 AM   #48
Art Eatman
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No doubt that the old 220 will work, but I don't figure on grabbing a framing hammer when the job is driving tacks.
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Old November 1, 2016, 03:57 AM   #49
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I used to shoot 220's in the 8x57. If I still had it, I probably still would for hunting deer. Not something you want to plink with, they are expensive.
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Old November 14, 2016, 05:18 PM   #50
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I have used them but probably more a fan of the 180s in 30-06 for heavier bullets. But rifles are different so it is what yours likes.
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