.44 Rem Mag 240grSWC Conflicting stated charges

terrybarb3 · November 23, 2013, 03:00 PM

I'm wanting to load .44mag with 240gr lead SWC. Lyman says max charge is around 11gr of Unique, where as Hornady states 7 gr max of Unique (give or take some tenths).

My point is this, what causes the two well respected reloading manuals to list a 50% difference in max charges for that bullet?

Unique receives excellent comments, and I'd like to use it for these 240grSWC loads,,, but I'd like to do so with the safety of myself and firearm covered.

Any suggestions or responses are appreciated

57K · November 23, 2013, 05:40 PM

I think there's a simple explanation. If Hornady used their soft swaged bullet, it shouldn't be pushed hard. Evidently, Alliant used a similar bullet and kept velocity at 899 FPS. Lyman's data is for at least their #2 Alloy which is 15 BHN and if you're loading a commercially cast bullet, BHN will be 17 - 18 unless it's the LaserCast that's even harder. Lyman's 240 gr. Data is actually for a RNFP type bullet cast with Linotype. I would use the data for their 245 gr. SWC #429421 which is also Linotype. OACL is a bit long at 1.710" and you didn't mention the revolver you'll be shooting them from. With a 240 SWC you'll be okay with a slightly shorter OACL using the 245 gr. Data. This is from the Lyman Pistol & Revolver III for Unique:

Start: 9.8 grs. 912 FPS @ 20,800 CUP
Max: 13.0 grs. 1147 FPS @ 36,800 CUP

Personally, I'm not a Unique fan for high pressure Magnum revolver loads. Ramshot True Blue is every bit as universal in application. It's a very dense spherical powder that meters exceptionally which may help in accounting for its very uniform pressure characteristics.

Nick_C_S · November 23, 2013, 05:44 PM

I don't have a Lyman (need to get one) manual. But I can tell you that Hornady's low charge loads is because it's a soft lead swaged bullet, and they're only giving load data to 1000 fps (5.7g to 7.6g).

Speer #14 also has a swaged 240 grainer and their Unique load is 6.5 to 7.0. BUT, they also have 250g hard cast data, and it shows Unique 9.0g to 11.0g. So the swaged data is loaded to velocity; and the hard cast data is loaded to pressure.

That would be the difference.

FrankenMauser · November 23, 2013, 11:35 PM

Quote:

So the swaged data is loaded to velocity; and the hard cast data is loaded to pressure.

^^That. ^^

Nick_C_S · November 23, 2013, 11:39 PM

Which reminds me: This past Thursday, I bought a pound of Unique, for the first time in at least 25 years.

NWPilgrim · November 24, 2013, 02:15 AM

My favorite plinking load is 10.0 gr Unique under a 240 gr hardcast LSWC, COL= 1.610" and standard LP primers. I think Unique is great for mild to medium loads, 7.5 gr is a nice easy load, too.

If I want more oomph I switch to a slow powder such as 23.0 gr W296.

terrybarb3 · November 24, 2013, 12:34 PM

This is really great feedback gentleman. Thank you. I wanted to use the Unique because I see it listed everywhere in my different reloading manuals... so just trying to keep lower on the number of different powders.

That said, I more so appreciate the explenations of your posts which clarifys that I need to use a different powder. I have a couple of pounds of 296, but had not seen any reloading data for it. So if there is experience with that, I'd be happy to try it along with the one suggestion already in this thread

57K · November 24, 2013, 03:09 PM

W296 is a great powder for max effort .44 Magnum loads. It and H110 are identical and you will find data here: http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

terrybarb3 · November 24, 2013, 03:29 PM

296 for jacketed:
I find quite an array of 296 for jacketed 240gr bullets. But I fail to find manufacturer info on 296 for cast 240gr.
Am I just missing the obvious, or are you guys referring to personal data from your loads?

57K · November 24, 2013, 09:34 PM

Lyman's data uses H-110 which is exactly the same powder as W296, so you can use the H-110 data. Since you're using a SWC, I would use the 245 gr. SWC data.

TimSr · November 25, 2013, 08:32 AM

I've found that most sources are reluctant to give hardcast bullet data, and most of those who give LSWC data do so with their own soft lead bullets they make as the data source. Who can blame them when there are so many casting variables? Lyman probably has the best cast bullet data since they don't sell bullets, but they are huge in bullet casting equipment. Even their data tends to be pretty tame for cast bullets. When I target shoot a big magnum, I like to feel a big magnum when I shoot it.

296 works great for cast bullets if they are of good quality, and hard enough (18BRN). My pet target load for my Redhawk has been 24.0 gr of 296/110 under a Bull-X 240gr SWC for years. I've loaded much hotter, but there is no point in it. After I finally ran out of Bull-X, I got 240gr SWC from Missouri Bullet Co. which are every bit as good.

What I have done, since you can't reduce loads with 296 is worked up loads with Unique, and if the bullets are still accurrate and still don't lead the barrel on the top end, use jacketed bullet info to continue with 296. The good news is that your Ruger probably makes it impossible to stuff enough 296 in case to cause damage. (Thats not a challenge!)

My 240gr SWC loads on 24.0gr of 296 feel like magnums, sound like magnums, shoot like magnums, and will hold in the deer kill zone at 100 yards from my 7 1/2" old style Redhawk.

AlaskaMike · November 25, 2013, 11:38 AM

I've also used 24 grains of 296 with 240 grain SWCs--mostly from Lasercast but a few other brands as well. These days the bullet has changed from a Magma style 240 grain to RCBS 44-250-K that I cast myself, but the powder charge remains the same.

NWPilgrim · November 29, 2013, 03:07 AM

For hard cast lead bullets the best reference is Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B004DW...r=8-1&pi=SY200

Lots of data for W296/H110 in that. This is a fantastic powder for full house magnum loads. Alliant 2400 is not quite as slow as W296 so slightly lower top velocity, but it is much more versatile like Unique. Wide range of velocities possible and definitely in the magnum range.

I've chosen to use Unique for light to medium loads (5.5 gr, 7.5 gr and 10.0 gr) and W296 for full house loads st 23.0 gr. but if you wanted just one powder then 2400 would be hard to beat, or AA9.

terrybarb3 · November 29, 2013, 02:00 PM

Wow, i tried a small batch of W296 at 24 grains. No high pressure indicators, but it just felt violent... like their should have been primer indication of pressure issues.
I def am going to back down to 23 grains.
Thanks for all the help / input

November 23, 2013, 05:44 PM	#3
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,522	I don't have a Lyman (need to get one) manual. But I can tell you that Hornady's low charge loads is because it's a soft lead swaged bullet, and they're only giving load data to 1000 fps (5.7g to 7.6g). Speer #14 also has a swaged 240 grainer and their Unique load is 6.5 to 7.0. BUT, they also have 250g hard cast data, and it shows Unique 9.0g to 11.0g. So the swaged data is loaded to velocity; and the hard cast data is loaded to pressure. That would be the difference. __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

November 23, 2013, 11:39 PM	#5
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,522	Which reminds me: This past Thursday, I bought a pound of Unique, for the first time in at least 25 years. __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

November 24, 2013, 02:15 AM	#6
NWPilgrim Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 2,346	.44 Rem Mag 240grSWC Conflicting stated charges My favorite plinking load is 10.0 gr Unique under a 240 gr hardcast LSWC, COL= 1.610" and standard LP primers. I think Unique is great for mild to medium loads, 7.5 gr is a nice easy load, too. If I want more oomph I switch to a slow powder such as 23.0 gr W296.

November 24, 2013, 12:34 PM	#7
terrybarb3 Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 43	Bullet is "Precision Cast Bullets L.L.C. 44-240 SWC / gun Ruger Super Redhawk This is really great feedback gentleman. Thank you. I wanted to use the Unique because I see it listed everywhere in my different reloading manuals... so just trying to keep lower on the number of different powders. That said, I more so appreciate the explenations of your posts which clarifys that I need to use a different powder. I have a couple of pounds of 296, but had not seen any reloading data for it. So if there is experience with that, I'd be happy to try it along with the one suggestion already in this thread

November 29, 2013, 03:07 AM	#13
NWPilgrim Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 2,346	.44 Rem Mag 240grSWC Conflicting stated charges For hard cast lead bullets the best reference is Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook. http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B004DW...r=8-1&pi=SY200 Lots of data for W296/H110 in that. This is a fantastic powder for full house magnum loads. Alliant 2400 is not quite as slow as W296 so slightly lower top velocity, but it is much more versatile like Unique. Wide range of velocities possible and definitely in the magnum range. I've chosen to use Unique for light to medium loads (5.5 gr, 7.5 gr and 10.0 gr) and W296 for full house loads st 23.0 gr. but if you wanted just one powder then 2400 would be hard to beat, or AA9.

November 23, 2013, 03:00 PM	#1
terrybarb3 Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 43	.44 Rem Mag 240grSWC Conflicting stated charges I'm wanting to load .44mag with 240gr lead SWC. Lyman says max charge is around 11gr of Unique, where as Hornady states 7 gr max of Unique (give or take some tenths). My point is this, what causes the two well respected reloading manuals to list a 50% difference in max charges for that bullet? Unique receives excellent comments, and I'd like to use it for these 240grSWC loads,,, but I'd like to do so with the safety of myself and firearm covered. Any suggestions or responses are appreciated

November 23, 2013, 05:40 PM	#2
57K Junior member Join Date: March 2, 2013 Location: Heart of Texas Posts: 788	I think there's a simple explanation. If Hornady used their soft swaged bullet, it shouldn't be pushed hard. Evidently, Alliant used a similar bullet and kept velocity at 899 FPS. Lyman's data is for at least their #2 Alloy which is 15 BHN and if you're loading a commercially cast bullet, BHN will be 17 - 18 unless it's the LaserCast that's even harder. Lyman's 240 gr. Data is actually for a RNFP type bullet cast with Linotype. I would use the data for their 245 gr. SWC #429421 which is also Linotype. OACL is a bit long at 1.710" and you didn't mention the revolver you'll be shooting them from. With a 240 SWC you'll be okay with a slightly shorter OACL using the 245 gr. Data. This is from the Lyman Pistol & Revolver III for Unique: Start: 9.8 grs. 912 FPS @ 20,800 CUP Max: 13.0 grs. 1147 FPS @ 36,800 CUP Personally, I'm not a Unique fan for high pressure Magnum revolver loads. Ramshot True Blue is every bit as universal in application. It's a very dense spherical powder that meters exceptionally which may help in accounting for its very uniform pressure characteristics.

November 24, 2013, 03:09 PM	#8
57K Junior member Join Date: March 2, 2013 Location: Heart of Texas Posts: 788	W296 is a great powder for max effort .44 Magnum loads. It and H110 are identical and you will find data here: http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

November 24, 2013, 03:29 PM	#9
terrybarb3 Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 43	296 for jacketed: I find quite an array of 296 for jacketed 240gr bullets. But I fail to find manufacturer info on 296 for cast 240gr. Am I just missing the obvious, or are you guys referring to personal data from your loads?

November 24, 2013, 09:34 PM	#10
57K Junior member Join Date: March 2, 2013 Location: Heart of Texas Posts: 788	Lyman's data uses H-110 which is exactly the same powder as W296, so you can use the H-110 data. Since you're using a SWC, I would use the 245 gr. SWC data.

November 25, 2013, 08:32 AM	#11
TimSr Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2013 Location: Rittman, Ohio Posts: 2,074	I've found that most sources are reluctant to give hardcast bullet data, and most of those who give LSWC data do so with their own soft lead bullets they make as the data source. Who can blame them when there are so many casting variables? Lyman probably has the best cast bullet data since they don't sell bullets, but they are huge in bullet casting equipment. Even their data tends to be pretty tame for cast bullets. When I target shoot a big magnum, I like to feel a big magnum when I shoot it. 296 works great for cast bullets if they are of good quality, and hard enough (18BRN). My pet target load for my Redhawk has been 24.0 gr of 296/110 under a Bull-X 240gr SWC for years. I've loaded much hotter, but there is no point in it. After I finally ran out of Bull-X, I got 240gr SWC from Missouri Bullet Co. which are every bit as good. What I have done, since you can't reduce loads with 296 is worked up loads with Unique, and if the bullets are still accurrate and still don't lead the barrel on the top end, use jacketed bullet info to continue with 296. The good news is that your Ruger probably makes it impossible to stuff enough 296 in case to cause damage. (Thats not a challenge!) My 240gr SWC loads on 24.0gr of 296 feel like magnums, sound like magnums, shoot like magnums, and will hold in the deer kill zone at 100 yards from my 7 1/2" old style Redhawk.

November 25, 2013, 11:38 AM	#12
AlaskaMike Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Posts: 941	I've also used 24 grains of 296 with 240 grain SWCs--mostly from Lasercast but a few other brands as well. These days the bullet has changed from a Magma style 240 grain to RCBS 44-250-K that I cast myself, but the powder charge remains the same.

November 29, 2013, 02:00 PM	#14
terrybarb3 Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 43	24 grains too hot Wow, i tried a small batch of W296 at 24 grains. No high pressure indicators, but it just felt violent... like their should have been primer indication of pressure issues. I def am going to back down to 23 grains. Thanks for all the help / input