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Old May 3, 2007, 10:27 PM   #1
5whiskey
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Security System break down.

I don't know why I haven't posted this before, but another thread got me thinking about this so I decided to fill every one in on what I know. I don't profess to be the all knowing guru, but I will give you my perspective of the industry...

First off, let me say that security systems do serve a purpose in life. If I speak of them as if they are all junk... they are not. Actually the system itself is usually quiet good, it's just the people that sell it to you and put it in that you need to worry about.

I'll start with salesmen. If someone comes to your door trying to sell you a security system, they should have an ID from an alarm licensing board from the state you live in. I'm sure every state does things different with how they license, and some may not even have a license. If you live in NC, VA, or SC I know that anyone that works in the business is required to have a license on their person any time they go to a customers house or business. If someone tries give you a security consultation do not let them in if they can't present a license. They may have just forgotten it, or they may be casing your house. The point is YOU CAN'T TELL.

I don't want to say that every man or woman that sells security systems (or "consultants" or whatever they call themselves) is a leach or parasite, but some of them are. There are good and bad, that's for sure. The problem with the business (in NC anyway) is that everyone is too wrapped up in offering promotional "free" installation. It's so heavily advertised as free that everyone expects it to be so, even in a 3000 sq ft house. It's up to the salesman (consultant) to identify the needs of a particular job and recommend additional equipment for adaquete coverage. The problem is, everyone gets paid more to put in 2 basic systems than they do for 1 adequate system, so that is what people are encouraged to push. That and many consultants are afraid to recommend the additional equipment that would make the coverage adequate for fear of turning the customer off of the sale, so they just sale a basic system and in some cases horribly under-equip a home or business.

See, the "free" basic system with equipment and installation "free" usually just includes 2 or 3 doors, 1 motion detecter, 1 keypad, and 1 INTERIOR siren. Mind you will not be able to hear this siren well from outside the house. Mind you the motion detector does little good while you are home for obvious reasons, and many houses may have more than 2 or 3 doors. This excludes all of the windows, crawl space door, etc. Many times this is not even close to enough to coverage. This isn't a bad value as it keeps the cost of the additional equipment down, it's just that most "consultants" are afraid to tell people that they may have to spend up to 500 or 600 extra dollars or more to have adequate coverage. They are concentrating too hard on making the sale in the first place.

If you do get a consultation, here are some things to beware of. This is not all inclusive, and not everything here is a concrete red flag, but a combination of a lot of these things should tip you off.

1. Catch phrases like "if you could garauntee the safety of your house for just a dollar a day, isn't it worth it?". Security systems are not the be all end all, and even the best security system can be circumvented by the right person. That being said, it is not a garauntee no matter what.

2. If anyone tries to sell you a smoke detector for anything over 120 bucks that is monitered, be weary. Some legit companies do it but I've seen them go for 200 bucks and that's highway robbery. A smoke costs the company like 20 bucks with maybe 2 bucks of wire in it. Granted they have to pay the installer and salesman, but it still doesn't cost the company more than 60 bucks tops to put it in you're house. I'm not gonna post fair prices for all the equipment, would take too long, but mind you most of this stuff isn't as advanced as it sounds.

3. Someone that emphesizes "free" system constantly. They shouldn't quote any price untill after they determine how much coverage you need. You should expect them to look around your house, so don't get freaked out. When they walk around they should act with authority, but if they act sheepish don't write them off just be wary.

4. The best "consultants" will admit that a security system is not the be all end all. Properly installed it can greatly increase the security of your home, but security is a lifestyle. We all know that. Just be aware that there are other things you can do, good secure doors and windows. The best "consultants" will make suggestions other than a security system, such as window lamination or window pins.

5. Make sure, and I do emphasize this, that the resistors are put at the end of the line. This is not a required standard, but ask if they can use double end of line resistors.

6. SHOP AROUND!!! SHOP AROUND!!! SHOP AROUND!!! I know it's not comfortable to let 2 or 3 guys walk around your house but you want to gauge the company and salesman against some others to get the best service/deal. Try to make the house walk through the last part of the deal so you can weed out week candidates first, which limits who you give free rein of your house to.
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Old May 3, 2007, 10:49 PM   #2
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couple of other things...

I think this is very important. Purchase an exterior siren. I've seen them go from 60 to 100 bucks, but its well worth it. I think this is just as effective as having a system monitered.

Also, have your crawl space door contacted. Believe it or not some people have been known to break in through the filter return duct to central air. I know it sounds ridiculous but it has happened.

If there is any way to reach your attic from the outside of the house, have that door contacted. That is even way more feasible than coming up underneath, coming in from the top is pretty easy.

Let me stress the external siren again, THIS IS IMPORTANT. Also important is having a phone tamper put on your phone box, this goes hand in hand with the siren. If someone cuts the phone line the siren will go off instantly alerting the whole neighborhood. Some security controls has an internal phone tamper.

Talk to the installer and see if he will rig up some proximity sensors set up to a buzzer if you live down a long drive way and don't have many neighbors. Most of the guys that work with the electronics for a living find a way to rig up some pretty cool stuff. Proximity sensor is usually a motion detector drawing power from the alarm but not hooked up to set off the alarm if tripped. It keeps ADT from calling the police on the dog, deer, fox, or whatever trotting down your driveway. It does let you know via a separate buzzer placed where you choose, and it may get annoying depending on your area (if you live in the sticks you may get 2 or 3 false alarms a night). Proximity sensors are also good if your back yard ajoins to a woodline and no neighbors can see back there. Anyways, there are a lot of little cool options like that in addition to your security system, but many companies don't really offer it because they haven't thought of that need or tried to market it. That's a good thing because you can get it cheaper just by approaching the installer. If you mention it to the salesman you will most likely draw a blank stare or he will try to convince you to hook it up to your security system. Go to the installer with little "extras" like that and he will usually hook you up.

This is not all inclusive, but there should be some good stuff in here. Moderators, I don't know if this fits in training or tactics but I can't think of anywhere else. It is information that I think should be passed on, and if anyone has any questions then feel free to PM me. There are many nuances to the subject and I'm tired of writing for now, but I would be happy to entertain any questions should anyone have any.

God bless

Joey Wheeler
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Old May 3, 2007, 11:56 PM   #3
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Wheeler,

Good post. A friend in Missouri had some issues with people sneaking onto his property at night. While there, we figured out how to use a solar-powered wireless driveway alarm to trigger one of the alarm circuits (red light blinks and it chirps on all the alarm panels). He can then turn on a $100 wireless camera with its own IR lighting. Works pretty well for spying around the detached 3-car garage and the dark approaches to the house.

Other tips:
Secure your circuit breaker panel to prevent a thief from turning off your power. A simple padlock will do.

If your alarm system runs on 110v (most do) either opt for battery back-up or buy your own at a computer store. If a thief "tests" your system by cutting power then attempting entry, the alarm still sounds (and he'll look for easier prey).

Secure your phone box. Older homes may have an exposed wire on the wall to the phone box outdoors. You can buy half-round metal covers that screw/nail to the wall to cover to prevent easily cutting the wires.

Top of the line alarm systems can have a cellular phone option - if your phone line is cut, it uses a cellular service to contact the alarm company (more expensive).

Ask what happens if the alarm co. calls to verify an alarm. Ask if you can give a "hostage code" to indicate an intruder on-site without tipping him off. One company offered this at one time and operators were trained to say "I have that code here. Thank you. We will take the appropriate action." --which meant to alert the PD.

Also ask about "night alarm" configurations. These allow you to arm the system while home, mostly perimeter doors & windows, while you sleep. Be sure to ask how they rig windows so they can be partially opened for fresh air on warm summer nights.
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Old May 4, 2007, 07:42 AM   #4
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Thats pretty good additional info also Bill. Almost all alarm companies I have experiance with offers battery back up, and most monitering stations have a hostage code and password false alarm prevention but I'm sure there are some out there that may not offer that standard. It's always a good idea to ask and make sure.

I'll give a quick tip for securing the phone box real quick. This is something that almost anyone can do with a little mechanical aptitude. Your security company cannot move or hinder phone company access to your phone box by law, All the security company can do is run a line to the box for the alarm system. Make sure your installer gives the alarm phone line priority through line siezure. He'll understand what that means and it allows your security system to call out even if you're on the phone. If you have DSL make sure you mention that, also. Anywho, the easiest way you can secure the phone box is to move it under your crawl space. The phone company will complain, but not much they can do really except try and refuse to service your phones but they legally can't do that. Moving it under the crawl space only really works if the line comes to your house underground, if it comes from overhead that defeats the purpose. If you do move it, make sure you drill a hole below grade to run the main line into the crawl space. All of the house lines should be already running from the crawl space, all you have to do is pull them through the hole. Make sure you cover the hole(s) that were drilled for screws and for wires to run through, this could tip off someone smart enough to know what there looking for that the phone box WAS there and he may dig in that area to find the main phone line. Smartest thing to do is get a dummy phone box with a dummy cable running down to the ground.

Again no one can do this but the home owner or phone company. The phone company likely won't do it for you.

Cell backup for alarms used to be "iffy" in some places, but I haven't been in the business for over 4 years now. Alot of cell phone towers have went up in that time so cell backup may work much better. I think thats an expense most people can skip, especially if they live in a neighborhood and they post external sirens blasting everywere.

Again Bill great advice, sorry I forgot that to begin with.

One more thing, if you move phone box under the house make sure and have an alarm contact put on the crawl space door. Mind you some of the afforementioned are overkill for the smash and grab drug user break in, but someone who knows what they're doing can do some pretty scarry things. It depends on what level of security you are willing to pay for, but mind you if you're going to pay 30 dollars a month to have it monitered you may as well have a GOOD system that gives you GOOD protection. If someone tries to sell you free installation and equipment, you PROBABLY won't get good security though that does depend on the house. I'm just adding all of this so someone doesn't get an alarm and develope a false sense of security. Alarms can be nearly full-proof if you're willing to make them that way, and it may not always be that expensive, but if there are holes in the coverage I don't want anyone thinking they are completely safe when that isn't the case.

I'm trying to prevent that false sense of security.
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Old May 4, 2007, 03:28 PM   #5
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very handy

thanks.. didn't realize there was that much to a home security system.
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Old May 4, 2007, 05:24 PM   #6
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Interesting about moving the phone box.

I live in a townhome complex and our phone boxes are outside, next to the garages. Mine wears my padlock on the "consumer side" of the plastic box. The TELCO side uses that hex-key screw with a center post (to defeat use of regular hex-keys) but I figure bad guys can get their hands on the special tools if they want.

The lines run up into the box via steel conduit. I asked TELCO about moving the box inside the garage. No soap. They want it outdoors for access (i.e. so they can shut you off at the box if you don't pay). I've thought about moving it anyhow, but the snag is the cabling is just long enough to reach it's current point (without doing a bunch of splicing).

As a result, and after having some neighborhood punks tamper with the box, I used some flat metal strapping, the kind with 1/4" holes, to wrap around the box. The strap runs between the mounting screws (above/below the strap) so it can't be slipped off. At the end, the strap ends are mated and secured with a small hex-screw and a nylok locking nut. In order to access the box, you need to remove this strap first - a royal P.I.T.A. The local TELCO guy smiled and said it was a pretty good idea and cheap too.

For folks wanting to protect just a detached garage, tool sheds and the like, check out some of the "remote doorbell" units. With a little work you can connect the sender to a door so that opening the door triggers the plug-in doorbell inside the house. As long as it's a diferent sound than your doorbell, you'll know someone is inside your external unit.
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Old May 4, 2007, 07:31 PM   #7
tony pasley
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You get what you pay for in anything, package systems are designed to get you monitored and reccuring revnue then add-ons. The best way to go is a custom system for at least 2% of the value of your homes content. Then back-up communication, celluar, long range radio, ect.
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Old May 5, 2007, 09:04 AM   #8
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Let's see. If a home burglar uses a 1ft. x 1ft. x 1in. section of a common camping sleep mat and a short 16lb. sledge hammer, they could breach a brick veneer wall with relative silence. Once they have breached the wall they can pry the rest of the brick loose. When they get through that, they only need to get past gyplap and dry wall, in most cases, with a common razor knife. A professional burglar will not be looking to steal large items. Just as an ancient thief will leave gold behind in favor of lighter gems. Walls as a rule don't have sensors. To bypass the common security system all they really have to do is avoid the sensored entry points such as doors and windows. Outdoor lighting and cameras are a good addition to home security systems. Most of these electronic systems are of a passive nature. Add an active alarm to your system, get a good dog. There are many houses on the market that use foam sheathing instead of plywood or OSB board and vinyl siding. If your house has only siding and then foam for sheathing, all that the criminal will need is a razor knife to pass right through your walls. Having a good dog will negate this weakness in most cases. Many people use backpacks which makes a great way to carry breaching tools without drawing much if any attention. In order to defeat thieves you must try very hard to think as if you were one yourself.
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Old May 5, 2007, 09:35 AM   #9
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One day people will be honest and upstanding. Till then keep those eyes wide open.
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Last edited by Slugthrower; May 5, 2007 at 09:38 AM. Reason: operator error. Double posted
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Old May 6, 2007, 03:53 PM   #10
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Interesting posts to all. BillCA, interesting and easy way to secure a phone box, I'm gonna toy around with that. As far as the hex screw for the phone side... You don't need a special tool to open it. A sturdy 1/4" blade screwdriver will open it easily. Not to mention a good whack from a regular claw hammer will defeat phone boxes pretty easily. Even if you have conduit strapped to your house to protect the wire, is there a break in the conduit where you have exposed wire below grade? Then it can be defeated by simply digging a couple of inches and clipping. I like your post though, as that is certainly better than nothing and much much easier than moving the box.

Whether we like to know it or not, most of us aren't willing to pay enough for security to make your house fullproof. Don't ever think that you will achieve fool proof security. The point is to make your house so hard that they will simply move on to an easier target. They would be dumb not to. With a little money and a lot of smarts and "thinking like the crook" you can stop any smash and grab guy and even some of the more profesionals. Part of being a profesional is knowing when to walk away to something far more easier unless they are looking for something particular from you. That part is scary because if they try and defeat all of these suggestions to get at it they are definatly willing to hurt you to get it.

Anywho, going through the wall is not ludicrous, it isn't as hard to achieve as it sounds. That's one of the main reasons why I don't think alarms are the be-all end-all. It takes a combo of things. Security lights, camaras hooked up to motions, window laminating, gun safes, securing your outside garage/tool sheds, etc. Another quick easy way to secure wood windows is to find where the bottom and top sliding panes meet, drill a hole all the way through the bottom and into the top one. Stick a 20p nail in it and someone is FORCED to smash the window to get it up. Couple that with a security laminate and most windows can be pretty dag on secure. Nothing is fool proof though.

Cell backup and LRRT is expensive. I'm not saying it isn't a very useful tool in some cases, but it is expensive and adds to your monthly monitoring bill. Add on the fact that in MANY, not some but MANY, places cell backup won't work well. I'm sure it's better than it was when I was in the business, but when I did it if you moved 10 miles out of Raliegh NC to the south or east then you could forget cell backup being reliable. For some it is an option, but for many it isn't so I won't get into that one. It varies with the area, so I'm not saying it will never work out in the sticks so I don't want an arguement "well it works in Cana VA and that's as far away from a city as anything". If you're in the sticks and it does work for ya, rock on and count yourself blessed. I would rather see the primary method of comm as secure as possible, i.e. do whatever you can to protect your phone box.

Again I'd like to stress that if there is acces to your attic from the outside of the house it needs an alarm contact, or if you don't have an alarm as good of a lock as you can put on it. Yes, it is possible to smash through a brick veneer wall but it's much easier to go in the attic and drop through the sheetrock ceiling. It makes a mess but they're exposed to the outside a lot less. That's what I try to focus on, making them come out of cover to break in. Make them stand out in the open for all the world to see as they try and pry your door open or smash through your wall. Not to mention that you still need to protect the things inside of your house as well. The longer a thief is there the greater his chance of being caught. This is where security systems do work well, as there are statistics, that I will try to find so it will be documented and not here say, that state a security system with external siren cuts the time a burglar spends in the house drastically. I don't have the number but I will find this in fact form and post a link to it. If you have your guns in a secure safe that's bolted down and other valuables well secured then the theif won't get away with much. A small safe is also no good unless it's bolted down, that's another fun fact, as they can just take the whole thing and break into it with a cutting torch later.

One last fun thought to leave you with. If you have an alarm, make sure the control panal (not the keypad, the control panal) is secured. Most installers have a tendancy to put the alarm panal in a closet centrally located in the house for ease of wiring. This is a normal practice, I used to do it all the time. If a thief can reach that control panel and cut all of the wires before the keypad time limit, your security has just been circumvented. Even if the panal is locked, most of the wires will be ran inside a sheetrock wall. A hole can very easily be punched in the sheetrock exposing all of the wiring to wire cutters, or many times all it takes is to snatch the panel off the wall. Make sure they pop at least 3 screws into a stud, that should hold much better. Talk to your installer about having an instant contact put on the door to the closet that the contol panel is in, that will instantly set the alarm off, along with putting a good lock on that closet. If the door opens out of the closet and not into then put a deadbolt on it. They will have an easier time smashing a hole completely through the door than they will kicking the door off of the hinges or frame. Also have as short of an entry delay as possible for your alarm, and you can even have the installer put in a dummy control can in the most likely closet and the real panal in a more obscure place. Mind you depending on how your house is built and where they have to run wires may restrict this.

Nothing is full proof, but there are small little tricks that don't cost much if anything that can make a alright security system a great one. I'm just trying to pass on as much as I know, as this is one of the few subjects I know well enough to speak with authority on.

Anywho, God bless everyone, and have a good one.

Joey Wheeler
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Old May 6, 2007, 04:28 PM   #11
burnera
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i actually work as a dispatcher for a major security monitoring place.
after nearly 4 years, i dunno.... it all seems silly, but maybe i'm a bit jaded.

You guys have written a lot, and what i skimmed seemed all well and good actually.

Personally if i had a system i would forego motion detectors completely. Friggin ANYTHING can set those off, like cobwebs, ants, fax machines(printing the paper), etc. They seem to be the most fequent faulty sensor issue in my experience as well. The detectors do have sensitivity settings, but i'm not an installer so dunno-bout-that. Considering the "common burglar" will use a window or door to get inside, you could argue motion detectors everwhere would be excessive.

If i was worried about my home i'd get a good gaurd dog and a system with perimeter sensors that covered all doors, windows, the attic hatch, basement windows, and select interior doors.


misc.
if you have one make sure you keep up with it. If you're gonna die soon, please let your family know how to use it. It's very annoying to police to keep checking a house because it's up for sale and the realtor has no idea how to disarm the thing.
these things do require maintenence and repair. Your kids might knock off a sensor causing the (my) alarm company to call you. If you can't fix it yourself, we end up calling once a week.
All maintence and repair done by the alarm company will cost you money. About $60 to show up, and the repair bill will probably be 3 figures.

got questions? ask and maybe i know the answer.
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Old May 6, 2007, 04:56 PM   #12
tony pasley
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The problem with most security systems is the owners and lack of money they are willing to spend on protecting what they have. They think nothing of spending $5,000-$10,000 on entertainment systems, or $3,000 on computers and equiptment for examples, but $3,000 on a security system they cry thier eyes out. They think it should last for ever with nothing ever needs done to take care of it. It is one of the lowest things they want to be bothered with, but cry like babies when they don't use it and get robbed. Most people actually ask to get hit by the way they do things and don't think about the messages they convey.
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Old May 6, 2007, 11:53 PM   #13
5whiskey
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Well said Tony. I agree completely. That's what started the "free" equipment and installation gambit, which turned into some security salesmen (or "consultants") not recommending adequate coverage.

The sad thing is when people live in (literally) a million dollar house but find spending over 1000 dollars on security astounding. Don't understand it.

What's even more sad is the general public, who has to work hard for our stuff, won't even spend a grand if it's really needed.

Note I am not pushing any particular security company or any features that are "bells and whistles". You can get conveniance features like keyfobs and all sorts of other stuff, but I never liked trying to sell those because it unnecassarily adds to the cost. What really burns me up is the people that want a keyfob but they leave part of their house exposed with inadequate coverage. That used to piss me off.

Motions are okay if you have someone that understands the technology. Getting a quality motion detecter is key. Ceiling fans will not set off a good motion unless infront of a fireplace. Spider webs will if they're actually in the motion detector. Fax machines won't. Trust me, don't be afraid of them. There have been millions of trouble free motions out there. The problem is that if they are faulty or poorly postitioned then it calls the police for no reason if it is a false alarm. That is a pretty big deal, but it is rare in perspective. burnera I know you see it as a dispatcher quiet often, as I have seen it in service orders. My point is this, I've installed well over 1000 security systems, and I would be afraid to estimate service calls. With all that, I'm sure I can count on my hands the times I have serviced a faulty motion. Also the purpose of the motion is a secondary, especially on homes that don't have every window contacted. There's always another way in, be it through the attic, crawl space, or an unprotected window, that not everyone is willing to pay to cover. Instead of spending at a minimum of 45 and more often 60 dollars for every possible entrance to your home, many opt to spend the 130 on a motion detecter to save money. I don't like that as motion detecters are no good WHEN ITS REALLY IMPORTANT... WHEN YOU ARE HOME. This is the primary objective of security IMO, to protect yourself and family. That's why I don't like skimping on the windows. Even if you do cover all doors and windows, cover with at least 1 motion to back it up.
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Old May 7, 2007, 06:48 PM   #14
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I politely tell door-to door drummers that I rent. That sends them running like their hair was on fire once they realize I'm not going to buy anything. Haven't had to show the muzzle to a single one yet.
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Old May 9, 2007, 02:34 PM   #15
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Interesting advice.

I have thought of getting a security system but we have 2 dogs and 4 cats so I don't think a motion detector system will work.

Also, my house is not connected to the phone company - we only have cell phones. We do have cable for TV & internet tho.

Is it possible to get some kind of "pressure mat" (like you walk on going into a store and it opens the door automatically) that will sound an alarm if X many lbs are on it? It would have to be heavy enought to handle a 20 lb cat that may jump or run over it.

My house has all the bedrooms on one side and the livingroom, kitchen, family room on the other so I could put something at the end of the hallway and that could sound an alarm. I guess it could be an "infrared eye" beam across the hallway?

I mention this because around 30 years ago I heard of 2 guys who got caught robbing a Music Store, they broke in thru the roof (some kind of venting) but an interior doorway had a beam across it and when they enterred the showroom they set it off and had a nice surprise waiting for them when they went out.
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Old May 9, 2007, 05:11 PM   #16
5whiskey
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Many times you can accomodate pets with motion detecters. A trick I used to use is to tape off part of the lens so it can't detect anything under about 4.5'. The only trick to this is if a cat can jump on the furniture and break that 4.5' line then it will still set it off. Still a good tactic is to put the motion as a back up in the hallway, where there is rarely anything for cats or dogs to jump on and reach a height greater than 4 feet or so.

Pressure Mats can be made even if they're not currently manufactured, but I'm pretty sure they are. I've never seen one personally, but there is always more and better no matter how much you've been around. AND I've been out of the business for a few years too. You could always skip the motion and do exterior doors and windows if you're not comfortable with it, you can even contact some interior doors (master bedroom) and that would work almost as well as a motion. You just have to have that door shut when you leave and arm it.

Maybe you could do without a system too. There are a lot of simple things to help protect other than security systems. Get security window lamination and put window pins in, and beef up your doors with deadbolts. Deadbolts are only as good as the door jam. If you have a normal whimpy door jam you can reinforce by taking off the trim on the lock side, getting a piece of metal flat bar and drill holes in it. Then bolt or screw it to the door jam under where the trim lays. Once it's screwed on you can replace the trim by caulking stratigically and you can barely tell there is a piece of flat bar there. You don't need a huge piece, though I would make it at least 3' L x 1" W x 1/16" thick (probably 1/8" is a bit better but harder to hide). It doesn't make your door completely kick proof, but it will take about 4 of 5 times longer and quiet a few more kicks to kick it in if done right. GET DEADBOLTS. If I had a dollar for every door opened with a credit card or screwdriver that wasn't deadbolted I would have enough money to buy my ammo for a month at least. If you have exterior doors with window panes in the upper (or any) portion, get a deadbolt that requires a key on both sides and ALWAYS take the key out. You can hang the key close to the door for conveniance but make sure it's not within arms reach if someone broke the glass and tried to get the key.

Don't think that metal plated, or even solid metal, doors are the ultimate in security. Unless it has a metal frame (jam) then it does no good whatsoever except to be more expensive. It's rarely the door that gives when kicked in, it's usually the jam that gives way (hence the trick described above). Metal doors are good, don't get me wrong, but a wood door with a protected jam is almost just as hard to kick in.

Definatly get some security lights, and you can devise a simple system of window/door contacts to ring a buzzer or siren for when you are home at night. Won't do much when you're gone, but at least you'll be woken up if anyone tries to break in at night. I still highly advise a quality gun safe that is bolted down as well. I'm in search of one of those right now myself.

Security systems are not the only option, there are many things you can do for not much money and a little bit of work.

One last thing... Sliding doors= VERY VERY BAD!
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Old May 10, 2007, 01:22 AM   #17
BillCA
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For a temporary measure and to wake you up in the night, you can buy window/door alarms from First Alert at many hardware, drug and other stores.

These are battery operated alarm units with adhesive tape that you stick near a window. A magnetic contact is afixed to the window so if it opens, the alarm sounds. If you elect to use these, pick up some velcro to allow you to position the magnetic contact with the window closed, slightly open or open about 12" for ventilation.

A really cheap expedient (good for hotel rooms btw) is to use a small container (ice bucket) filled with empty beer/soda cans propped up to fall if the door is opened. Add a few small pea gravel stones inside the cans and they make a very loud racket when they fall.
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Old May 10, 2007, 08:57 AM   #18
brickeyee
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If you pay enough you can get very good protection.
The systems I use have internet and phone backup, continuous poling, motion sensors, double balanced door switches, etc.
They are not cheap, and monitoring is not inexpensive either.

Most if the home systems are truly amateur hour systems, installation, and monitoring.
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Old May 10, 2007, 11:10 AM   #19
5whiskey
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hey brickeye, what is a double balanced door switch? You talking bout a double reed contact? Either that or I've been away too long.

Quote:
Most if the home systems are truly amateur hour systems, installation, and monitoring.
Agree whole-heartedly, that's why I started this thread. Wanted to help other consumers as much as possible. I have found though, that most companies I have worked with have adequate equipment (DSC, ADEMCO, CADDUX). It's usually the salesman/installer combo that makes the differance, and I'm afraid I ran into quiet a few jack-legs and salesman who cared about nothing but getting a sale. They didn't even try and go for a bigger sale to actually give someone good coverage, they were too afraid to tell it like it is on account of the "free equipment, free installation" scam.
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Old May 10, 2007, 06:23 PM   #20
tony pasley
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Lets see a system: An expandable control, capable of hardwire and wireless devices, next bias contacts on all exterior doors, window screens on all windows, audio discriminators, tri-tech motion sensors, siezmic sensors under floor and attic, partioned for high security areas, 14 amp/hour back up battery, cellular backup, with text messaging to cell or blackberry. Each devise should be it's own zone, A.C. power failure should be imediate reporting. Do you think this would do in a pinch?
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Old May 11, 2007, 12:02 AM   #21
5whiskey
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Funny you should say that, I plan on putting a partitioned system in the house I'm trying to buy. Actually the partition will be for my work shop out back and for the "gun chest" (concealed floor compartment in closet). I wouldn't pay for it if I couldn't buy the equip and do it myself, then I'll pay a local monitoring company 10 a month to moniter. I've even toyed with the idea of just having the panel page my cell phone for when I'm away and stuffing the wife and kid in the closet with a cell phone to call police when we're home. You can have an alarm panel page your phone without a monitoring company, thus eliminating the monthly bill. I'm not gone at night much, but if I ever am I would rather just have it a company moniter it, though.

Anywho, yeah most of that is excessive for home security. I'm not trying to convince everyone they must spend 5gs on a security system, but if you want to then hey...

What I do discourage is just doors with a motion and interior siren. I always hated putting one in because I thought it was a false sense of security.

Siesmic Sensors... You keep nukes at your house???
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Old May 11, 2007, 08:40 AM   #22
tony pasley
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No Nukes but I am a collector and many can never be replaced.I did all the work myself, I use the pageing for personel responding because where I live I can make it back home usually before L.E. My camera equiptment I got from WWW.palmvid.com, Also got drive alert from WWW.optexamerica.com the wireless 1,000 model to let me know when some one is coming up the mountian past my nieghbors only 1 other house past mine up the mountian. Maybe those equiptment sites might help in some decisions on equiptment to get in the future. I think you have guessed that I have a little knowledge about this topic. Good luck with your new place
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Old May 11, 2007, 08:56 AM   #23
brickeyee
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Double balanced uses multiple magnets and is much larger and more reliable than the simple reed and magnet.
Reed and magnet can be defeated by placing another magnet in the vicinity.
Double balanced requires field matching of the magnets.
Some more sophisticated sensors also use solid state (hall devices) for the magnetic field sensing.
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Old May 11, 2007, 12:36 PM   #24
tony pasley
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They are actually called bias contacts.
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Old May 11, 2007, 02:38 PM   #25
brickeyee
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I use them to protect SCIFs.
You better have a talk with the .gov security folks.

They are the only type allowed.

Try here if you want to learn how real security is done.
http://www.nlectc.org/perimetr/full2.htm
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