Denied firearm purchase - Page 2

whitebb · November 28, 2006, 07:37 PM

Just for future knowledge, CCW permits in Georgia exempt you from NICS checks on FFL purchases.

Al Norris · November 28, 2006, 07:59 PM

A lot of misinformation floating around this thread. Let's clear it up.

From the FBI's own NICS E-Check website:

Quote:

How does an individual appeal a NICS denial decision?

When an individual is denied the transfer of a firearm, the individual may appeal that decision in writing directly to:

Federal Bureau of Investigation
NICS Section
Appeal Services Unit
PO Box 4278
Clarksburg, WV 26302-9922

You may obtain an Appeal Brochure from an FFL or online at http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/nics/nicsappeals.htm.

From the Brochure:

# You must include your complete mailing address in the request. You may also submit your request by facsimile or by e-mail. (See reverse side for the NICS facsimile number and e-mail address.)
# You must include your NICS Transaction Number (NTN) with your written request. The NTN can be obtained from the FFL.
# The NICS Appeal Services Team (AST) cannot initiate an appeal for you at the request of another individual without your written and signed authorization.
# You may submit your fingerprints, which must be rolled by a law enforcement agency, with your initial written correspondence. The submission of fingerprints with your appeal request may hasten the appeal process for you.
# The NICS AST will respond to your written request by providing the reason for your denial within five business days after receiving your correspondence.

There's more. Go To the website above and printout the brochure. Follow it to the letter. If you think us mods at TFL are anal-retentive, you haven't even begun to scartch the surface.

In the meantime, the very fact that you have a NICS denial, means that you will be looking at Federal felony charges if you so much as touch a firearm. Take this very seriously, as it is serious.

badbob · November 28, 2006, 08:30 PM

Quote:

There's more. Go To the website above and printout the brochure. Follow it to the letter. If you think us mods at TFL are anal-retentive, you haven't even begun to scartch the surface.

Telling someone to be precise in their legal affairs is not being "anal-retentive". Jumping on someone, as many do, for saying "clip" instead of magazine, is being anal-retentive.

badbob

Doug.38PR · November 28, 2006, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Who are they? Do you mean NCIS/FBI/Gov or Wal-mart? Wal-mart give him their reason. NCIS said to not allow the sale. That is the limit of their need to deal in the situation as his problems with his record and the government have nothing to do with Wal-Mart.

He can find out, only not at Wal-mart. That isn't their job. On top of that, does a person really want the NCIS system spitting back a return that is then repeated back to that person via one of those highly confidential Wal-Mart or other gun shop employees. Does a clerk really need to know the reason why he was denied a gun purchase?

As noted above, he needs to go to the source and find out for himself.

The "they" I am refering to are NCIS/FBI/Gov. If "they" are going to say to Walmart (and through them Brian) that he cannot exercise his right to keep and bear an arm he has the right to know why. He shouldn't have to go through all this red tape to find out why. He should be told right then and there why he is being denied.

threegun · November 29, 2006, 08:18 AM

Doug, He (Brian) should know why. If you can only be denied a firearm for felony convictions, Misdemeanor convictions (for violent or drug crimes) for three years after the conviction, battery domestic violence conviction (or pending case), or a restraining order why wouldn't Brian know already. If he doesn't have one of the above then he is a candidate for appeal.

TheBluesMan · November 29, 2006, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian6839

When i was younger i drank and fought alot but never a felon.

Why does this remind me of Bill Murray in Stripes. "Convicted? No, never convicted."

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian6839

...the third time the police had to come out she ran off and they decided someone was going to jail regardless so they arrested me...

Glad to hear that the charges were dropped. Are you sure they were dropped or was there a plea deal that didn't involve fines or prison?

Rotorhead asked the question already, there's something being left out, or it could be simply a snafu on the NICS end of things.

In the noise of misinformation on this thread one post stands out. Please follow Antipitas' advice and visit this link: http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/nics/nicsappeals.htm

FirstFreedom · November 29, 2006, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Do you have a domestic violence charge or ever had a restraining order against you? These will disqualify you from a firearm period.

No they won't.

A domestic restraining order will bar you from possession for a 3-year period from the date of issuance (or is is the date of expiration?) of the DRO.

A domestic violence misdemeanor *conviction* I believe will bar you forever, IINM.

Write a letter to the FBI - Attn NICS check, and explain your situation and ask for a response. Send it certified mail, return receipt requested (if you don't, then you did not send it, as a practical matter). Have a lawyer or someone you know with writing skills help you draft said letter, if you feel this is necessary. It is highly advisable.

Good luck.

Playboypenguin · November 29, 2006, 12:24 PM

Quote:

I don't believe the entire story has been revealed here.

I haven't read the entire thread but I agree with this statement. I worked investigations in the ARMY and you would be suprised at how many people I interviewed swore to have no record until you laid it in front of them and they say things like "oh yeah, I do have judgements for child support against me", "oh yeah, I might still have that warrant out from when I was 21", "oh yeah, I did write all those bad checks when I was 19", "oh yeah, I did get arrested for hitting my girlfriend once", "oh yeah, I was busted for killing that hooker with a pound a coke on me, but it was just that once", etc, etc.

It is amazing what some people seem capable of "forgetting".

invention_45 · November 29, 2006, 12:33 PM

Unless you know and recall EXACTLY every brush you have ever had with the law and KNOW that there are no outstanding issues, you had better take the advice below.

Quote:

Step 1: Go talk to a Criminal Defense attorney.
Step 2: Listen to what the Criminal Defense attorney says.
Step 3: Do what the Criminal Defense attorney says.

Frankly, you should take that advice even if you think you know. Some error in some computer somewhere linking you by SSN or another identifier may be the reason for your denial. That same error may flag the FBI if you make any sort of attempt to get around it. When that happens, you will be very unhappy.

I know this because my SSN was randomly picked by an arrestee and given to the police. I found this out by surprise when I did a criminal background check on myself just for fun (should have been completely clean). Anyone looking at the printout would immediately see what had happened (I won't say for security reasons, but an eyeball of "my" rap sheet makes it obvious it isn't me in a fraction of a second. That's probably why I got my CCW approved without question in 2000. The incident that put my information on this guy's sheet happened in 1972, so it was there.

So, either because you forgot the exact disposition of something in your past or because there's a records error, you might waltz in to the police station to check and find yourself in handcuffs.

Let an attorney do it for you. I've never tried it either way, but I bet it's a lot more fun to surrender with your lawyer and a plan than it is to do so by surprise.

JuanCarlos · November 29, 2006, 12:37 PM

Quote:

So, either because you forgot the exact disposition of something in your past or because there's a records error, you might waltz in to the police station to check and find yourself in handcuffs.

Let an attorney do it for you. I've never tried it either way, but I bet it's a lot more fun to surrender with your lawyer and a plan than it is to do so by surprise.

This is sage advice. I know for a fact my record is clean, but I still would be hesitant to walk into a police station and have them check it. If some clerical error (or incident of identity theft) has me listed as wanted in 12 states for horse theft, I'd much rather get it sorted out over the phone with a lawyer than in a jail cell hoping I'll get bail.

marlboroman84 · November 29, 2006, 07:06 PM

Posted By old 12 gauge -

Quote:

if you've been arrested for fighting, that's an assault, voilence which is a no-no unless you've done it for the government in vietnam or Iraq, then it's ok.

I'm curious as to what you're implying there. Care to explain that comment?

BTW you spelled violence wrong.

old 12 gauge · November 29, 2006, 07:23 PM

Marboroman84

I'm curious as to what you're implying there. Care to explain that comment?

not implying anything, i'm stating that if you're in the Army as i was over 35 yrs ago and fighting for the government or in Iraq with the military and commit a few assaults, it's ok, but don't come back here and pop some loud mouth side of the head because that is assault.

about the way i spelled violence, do i realy care??

marlboroman84 · November 29, 2006, 07:31 PM

I'm ex-army as well. The way you came off in your comment made it sound like you had something against the troops. That's a big sore spot with me. If it's not what you meant, then I apologize.

JuanCarlos · November 29, 2006, 07:49 PM

Quote:

I'm ex-army as well. The way you came off in your comment made it sound like you had something against the troops. That's a big sore spot with me.

You should stop chasing shadows...very few people in this country actually have anything against "the troops." Unless, of course, you confuse opposition to the war they're fighting with a lack of support for them. Which is silly, because even many of the soldiers over there don't even agree with what we're doing. I should know, I was one (Army as well).

Unless of course you're suggesting that the majority of my family (including my wife), who bitterly oppose the war (some from the very start) don't support "the troops." Or that I somehow don't support "the troops."

*sigh*

As I'm sure you can see, people who think that failing to favor the war or support the president somehow denigrates the troops is a big sore spot with me. [/tangent]

ISP2605 · November 29, 2006, 08:01 PM

Quote:

my sister was 16 and very rebellious so my father sent her to me well to make a long story short the third time the police had to come out she ran off and they decided someone was going to jail regardless so they arrested me but she went back to florida and never showed for court so the charges were dropped

There's more to this story than is being told. Police just don't arrest someone for no reason. Since we don't have the entire story, and only you know what happened, do a search on the Lautenberg Amendment. See if anything in that law applies to you.

marlboroman84 · November 29, 2006, 08:04 PM

Quote:

You should stop chasing shadows...very few people in this country actually have anything against "the troops." Unless, of course, you confuse opposition to the war they're fighting with a lack of support for them. Which is silly, because even many of the soldiers over there don't even agree with what we're doing. I should know, I was one (Army as well).

Unless of course you're suggesting that the majority of my family (including my wife), who bitterly oppose the war (some from the very start) don't support "the troops." Or that I somehow don't support "the troops."

*sigh*

As I'm sure you can see, people who think that failing to favor the war or support the president somehow denigrates the troops is a big sore spot with me. [/tangent]

I'm not chasing anything. I don't personally favor the war myself, but I favor my buddies that died in it. I don't care who supports the war, but I do ask they support the troops.

I asked old 12 gauge about his comment because it sounded to me like he was saying "It's ok to go kill people for the government, but if you hit somebody here you can't buy a gun. BLAH!" That's what i got from it and he replied that it wasn't and I replied with an apology.

I'm glad you decided to weigh in and presume to know SO much about me. Chasing shadows? Hardly. Favor the war? Not so much. Support the troops? Unwaveringly so.

Next time don't read so much into my text. I'm a pretty straight forward kinda guy and there is never anything under the surface. If I wanna say it, I'll say it. Plain and simple. Take it at face value.

Lets get back on topic now. If you got anything else to say send me a pm and let's not hijack the thread any further.

M14fan · November 29, 2006, 09:28 PM

I do know that statistically there are a significant number of rejections made in error. Sometimes it is because someone else has stolen their SSN or other personal information. Sometimes it is simply name confusion. Good luck!!

oldbillthundercheif · November 29, 2006, 10:38 PM

Ever since the new guy at the gunshop read my info (I heard him clearly give them the wrong birthdate and mess up my SSN) over the phone to the background-check people, I have been "delayed" on two of my last three firearms purchases. This has been a minor pain-in-the-arse, but no big deal. They always OK the purchase within 24 hours.

I wonder if the Wall-Mart clerk could have heard "delayed", didn't know what that meant, and told this guy he was rejected?

invention_45 · November 30, 2006, 07:58 AM

Quote:

pop some loud mouth side of the head because that is assault.

It's actually a battery, and either way it makes you a criminal. If I'm the "loud mouth" in question, the DA will handle it from there.

1006smith · November 30, 2006, 08:30 AM

I have a police buddy that I frequent gun shows with. He cannot buy a firearm directly because his no-account brother used his name once (twice actually) when arrested. He always gets rejected/delayed because they think it's his brother using his name again. I have been through the process with him actually purchasing a firearm so I know he can do it legally.

Question? If the sister ran, who did the police list as a complainant/victim for the arrest? Why did she run? Something fishy here.

Chuck

rezmedic54 · November 30, 2006, 08:46 AM

I recently went to a coarse for FFL's and according to them the FBI has added some things to the prohibited processor list you may have fallen up one of their new listing. I have a 4473 that has not been approved yet it been over 90 days. They won't give your FFL the reason you where denied at least they have never told me on any I have had. So the best thing to do is follow the above advice and see what happens. Be Safe Out There Kurt

mikejonestkd · November 30, 2006, 08:47 AM

Its pretty simple:

Either you did something that has stuck on your record or someone else has used your identity when they were arrested in the past.

The solution is pretty simple too: Send in a laywer and money before you can get your guns....

( yes, I am paraphrasing the song.....)

threegun · November 30, 2006, 10:28 AM

I once had the FDLE put me on hold.....for a long time........then the cops showed up and arrested the man trying to redeem his pawned gun. Turns out he was wanted for murder in Miami. Tried to run from like 6 huge Tampa Police Officers......the dumb arse.

Double Naught Spy · November 30, 2006, 12:24 PM

Quote:

The "they" I am refering to are NCIS/FBI/Gov. If "they" are going to say to Walmart (and through them Brian) that he cannot exercise his right to keep and bear an arm he has the right to know why. He shouldn't have to go through all this red tape to find out why. He should be told right then and there why he is being denied.

Red tape is the process. If you don't like it, what are you doing to make it right?

Doug.38PR · November 30, 2006, 12:38 PM

for whatever it is worth.....I am speaking out against it on behalf of Brian and others. If a good candidate is out there who is all for rolling back all these statist gun laws (federal and state) I'd be all for voting for him.

If a police officer arrests you, must tell you right then and there what you are being charged with. You have a right to know why you are considered a criminal. Why should it be any different here. They are essentially telling him he is a criminal (convicted felon, wife beater, child molester etc.) If he hasn't done any of these things, he should hear why he is being refused normal exercise of every day life (pursuit of happiness)

November 29, 2006, 07:31 PM	#38
marlboroman84 Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2006 Location: Memphis,TN Posts: 541	I'm ex-army as well. The way you came off in your comment made it sound like you had something against the troops. That's a big sore spot with me. If it's not what you meant, then I apologize. __________________ Ban Liberals, not guns! ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒE (mo-lone lah-veh)

November 29, 2006, 09:28 PM	#42
M14fan Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2006 Location: Tennessee Posts: 777	Error or Identity Theft I do know that statistically there are a significant number of rejections made in error. Sometimes it is because someone else has stolen their SSN or other personal information. Sometimes it is simply name confusion. Good luck!! __________________ "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." --George Washington

November 30, 2006, 08:46 AM	#46
rezmedic54 Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 288	Denied I recently went to a coarse for FFL's and according to them the FBI has added some things to the prohibited processor list you may have fallen up one of their new listing. I have a 4473 that has not been approved yet it been over 90 days. They won't give your FFL the reason you where denied at least they have never told me on any I have had. So the best thing to do is follow the above advice and see what happens. Be Safe Out There Kurt __________________ Kurt Pietrzak Maricopa Shooting Service S.W.A.T. South West Airsoft Tactical CCW Instrutor NRA Certified Instructor Gunsmith Maricopa ,Az. http:www.maricopashooting.com

November 30, 2006, 08:47 AM	#47
mikejonestkd Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2006 Location: Brockport, NY Posts: 3,716	Its pretty simple: Either you did something that has stuck on your record or someone else has used your identity when they were arrested in the past. The solution is pretty simple too: Send in a laywer and money before you can get your guns.... ( yes, I am paraphrasing the song.....) __________________ You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.

November 28, 2006, 07:37 PM	#26
whitebb Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2006 Location: ga Posts: 313	Just for future knowledge, CCW permits in Georgia exempt you from NICS checks on FFL purchases.

November 29, 2006, 08:18 AM	#30
threegun Junior member Join Date: March 1, 2006 Location: Tampa,Fl Posts: 4,000	Doug, He (Brian) should know why. If you can only be denied a firearm for felony convictions, Misdemeanor convictions (for violent or drug crimes) for three years after the conviction, battery domestic violence conviction (or pending case), or a restraining order why wouldn't Brian know already. If he doesn't have one of the above then he is a candidate for appeal.

November 29, 2006, 07:23 PM	#37
old 12 gauge Junior member Join Date: November 3, 2006 Posts: 165	Marboroman84 I'm curious as to what you're implying there. Care to explain that comment? not implying anything, i'm stating that if you're in the Army as i was over 35 yrs ago and fighting for the government or in Iraq with the military and commit a few assaults, it's ok, but don't come back here and pop some loud mouth side of the head because that is assault. about the way i spelled violence, do i realy care??

November 29, 2006, 10:38 PM	#43
oldbillthundercheif Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2006 Location: New Orleans Posts: 2,450	Ever since the new guy at the gunshop read my info (I heard him clearly give them the wrong birthdate and mess up my SSN) over the phone to the background-check people, I have been "delayed" on two of my last three firearms purchases. This has been a minor pain-in-the-arse, but no big deal. They always OK the purchase within 24 hours. I wonder if the Wall-Mart clerk could have heard "delayed", didn't know what that meant, and told this guy he was rejected?

November 30, 2006, 08:30 AM	#45
1006smith Member Join Date: November 17, 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 75	I have a police buddy that I frequent gun shows with. He cannot buy a firearm directly because his no-account brother used his name once (twice actually) when arrested. He always gets rejected/delayed because they think it's his brother using his name again. I have been through the process with him actually purchasing a firearm so I know he can do it legally. Question? If the sister ran, who did the police list as a complainant/victim for the arrest? Why did she run? Something fishy here. Chuck

November 30, 2006, 10:28 AM	#48
threegun Junior member Join Date: March 1, 2006 Location: Tampa,Fl Posts: 4,000	I once had the FDLE put me on hold.....for a long time........then the cops showed up and arrested the man trying to redeem his pawned gun. Turns out he was wanted for murder in Miami. Tried to run from like 6 huge Tampa Police Officers......the dumb arse.

November 30, 2006, 12:38 PM	#50
Doug.38PR Junior member Join Date: January 18, 2005 Posts: 3,298	for whatever it is worth.....I am speaking out against it on behalf of Brian and others. If a good candidate is out there who is all for rolling back all these statist gun laws (federal and state) I'd be all for voting for him. If a police officer arrests you, must tell you right then and there what you are being charged with. You have a right to know why you are considered a criminal. Why should it be any different here. They are essentially telling him he is a criminal (convicted felon, wife beater, child molester etc.) If he hasn't done any of these things, he should hear why he is being refused normal exercise of every day life (pursuit of happiness)