The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 26, 2013, 05:00 PM   #1
brokenhand
Member
 
Join Date: February 26, 2009
Location: TX
Posts: 40
County Sheriffs Can Block Federal Gun Control

Most people, including politicians fail to realize that the ultimate legal authorities in the land are the county sheriffs. This was established from the time of the Founding Fathers and upheld by the US Supreme Court in the 1997 case of Printz v. United States.

The case involved new federal regulations involved with the Brady Bill and gun control. FBI agents went around to the various county sheriffs and demanded that they follow the new federal guidelines. Then Graham County (AZ) Sheriff Richard Mack and several others saw the Brady Bill as being unconstitutional and refused to impose the new federal guidelines. Part of their defense was that the county sheriff was the supreme law enforcement officer over their county and that the federal government could not supersede their legal authority.

Referring once again to President Madison, Scalia wrote:

“In the compound republic of America, the power surrendered by the people is first divided between two distinct governments, and then the portion allotted to each subdivided among distinct and separate departments. Hence a double security arises to the rights of the people. The different governments will control each other, at the same time that each will be controlled by itself.” (P. 922).

In other words, the county sheriff is the highest governmental authority in his county and he does not have to bow to the tyranny of the federal government if he deems such actions to be unconstitutional or unlawful. In essence, the county sheriff has more legal authority within his county than the governor or the state or even the president of the United States.

Today, former Sheriff Richard Mack works with a number of county sheriffs throughout the county, helping them understand the extent of their authority and how they can legally defy the federal government. I would highly recommend that you contact your county sheriff and see if he/she is aware of their powers and duties. If not, get them in contact with Mack and urge your county sheriff to stand up against upcoming unconstitutional gun laws that the liberals are going to try to impose on us.
brokenhand is offline  
Old January 26, 2013, 05:30 PM   #2
Dr Big Bird PhD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 26, 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 779
If only Charlie Beck didn't run my county.
__________________
I told the new me,
"Meet me at the bus station and hold a sign that reads: 'Today is the first day of the rest of your life.'"
But the old me met me with a sign that read: "Welcome back."
Who you are is not a function of where you are. -Off Minor
Dr Big Bird PhD is offline  
Old January 26, 2013, 05:40 PM   #3
MC 1911
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 19, 2011
Location: Virginia
Posts: 365
Just read an article saying the AG in Delaware issued an order removing all arrest powers from the Sheriffs in 3 counties. The AG is Bidens son!! Will be interesting to see if it's true!!
MC 1911 is offline  
Old January 26, 2013, 05:41 PM   #4
Spats McGee
Staff
 
Join Date: July 28, 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 8,815
MC 1911, you don't have a link to that article, do ya?
__________________
I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some.
Spats McGee is offline  
Old January 26, 2013, 05:43 PM   #5
sigcurious
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 25, 2011
Posts: 1,755
Didn't Beck recently change the impound policy for unlicensed drivers making it easier for them to get their cars back or something? He should be familiar with selective enforcement...

Unfortunately for most of the population the sheriff's dept. is not the only or primary LEA in town. The refusal by sheriffs to enforce federal law is mostly symbolic.
sigcurious is offline  
Old January 26, 2013, 06:01 PM   #6
RamItOne
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 24, 2011
Posts: 990
Spats- 30 seconds of google-fu

http://americanfreepress.net/?p=3590
__________________
M&P- the other dark meat

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...rtant/DJyvnHz0
RamItOne is offline  
Old January 26, 2013, 06:17 PM   #7
sigcurious
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 25, 2011
Posts: 1,755
DE Sheriffs

It seems its a little more complicated than the americanfreepress article would have people believe. It's questionable if the sheriffs in Delaware are law enforcement in the traditional sense.
sigcurious is offline  
Old January 26, 2013, 06:24 PM   #8
shootniron
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 16, 2011
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,599
It depends on the verbage in the law as to whether a Sheriff can legally deny enforcing the law. With correct wording, it is actually a violation of the law for them to ignore or fail to enforce it.

Last edited by shootniron; January 30, 2013 at 12:05 AM.
shootniron is offline  
Old January 27, 2013, 07:49 AM   #9
therealdeal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 15, 2010
Posts: 627
I believe

they can ignore it but can't block it
__________________
NRA Distinguished Life Member

"Abraham Lincoln freed all men, but Sam Colt made them all equal." (post Civil War slogan)
therealdeal is offline  
Old January 27, 2013, 08:20 AM   #10
Spats McGee
Staff
 
Join Date: July 28, 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 8,815
Thanks for the link, guys. Yeah, I guess I shoulda worked on my google-fu.
__________________
I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some.
Spats McGee is offline  
Old January 27, 2013, 08:25 AM   #11
MC 1911
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 19, 2011
Location: Virginia
Posts: 365
Sorry,I should have added the link!
MC 1911 is offline  
Old January 30, 2013, 12:03 AM   #12
johnwilliamson062
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2008
Posts: 9,995
Just like the immigration laws, they don't have to enforce, but that wont stop FBI or ATFE.
Unless they have state legislators backing them with criminal statutes for any federal officer enforcing the law, they won't be able to do much.
johnwilliamson062 is offline  
Old January 30, 2013, 01:44 AM   #13
vranasaurus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 16, 2008
Posts: 1,184
The sheriff can't block federal gun control. The case you cite in no way supports this very broad proposition as you claim it does.

The holding of the case is congress has no authority to force the executive branch of state governments to enforce federal law. So they can't compel the sheriff to assist them but the feds can and will enforce federal law.

Quote:
We have always understood that even where Congress has the authority under the Constitution to pass laws requiring or prohibiting certain acts, it lacks the power directly to compel the States to require or prohibit those acts.

New York v. United States(quoted in Printz)
The court in Printz went on to say that requiring states to enforce federal law is not at all distinct from compelling a state to make policy.

As a community we really need to avoid crack pot theories with no basis in law.
vranasaurus is offline  
Old January 30, 2013, 01:43 PM   #14
Nasty
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 18, 2008
Posts: 323
In most communities, the law is already stretched beyond it's means.

What if they had to arrest several million of us at the same time?
__________________
Above is based on the opinion of a 20 year Small Arms Marksmanship and Training Unit USAF instructor with more than 30 years in competitive shooting sports. Your mileage may vary.
Nasty is offline  
Old January 30, 2013, 02:25 PM   #15
iraiam
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 6, 2012
Location: Lakewood, CO
Posts: 1,057
My take on this and other court decisions is that, County Sheriffs have no power or obligation to enforce a federal statute. Federal laws are to be enforced by federal agents/prosecutors.

There are many federal laws which have state/local mirrors, these are the laws that county sheriffs are charged with enforcing.
__________________
NRA Lifetime Member Since 1999

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few public officials." George Mason
iraiam is offline  
Old January 30, 2013, 04:51 PM   #16
vranasaurus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 16, 2008
Posts: 1,184
Nasty,

You are describing the effectiveness of civil disobedience. The inability to lock every violator up is what makes civil disobedience work.
vranasaurus is offline  
Old January 31, 2013, 07:51 AM   #17
BoogieMan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 4, 2012
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 2,217
Quote:
What if they had to arrest several million of us at the same time?
They wont. Its one at a time.
__________________
Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it.
Milton Freidman
"If you find yourself in a fair fight,,,
Your tactics suck"
- Unknown
BoogieMan is offline  
Old January 31, 2013, 08:28 AM   #18
Double Naught Spy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX
Posts: 12,712
Quote:
Most people, including politicians fail to realize that the ultimate legal authorities in the land are the county sheriffs. This was established from the time of the Founding Fathers and upheld by the US Supreme Court in the 1997 case of Printz v. United States.
I am not sure what ultimate authority you are talking about. As noted, they can't block federal gun control. They don't have power over federal authorities. I think what you meant to say is that in some areas, they are the only representatives of the law of the land on a regular basis and those areas cover a lot of geograpical land, but ultimate legal authority? No.
__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011
My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange
Double Naught Spy is offline  
Old February 5, 2013, 10:37 PM   #19
Levant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 5, 2008
Posts: 182
I'm amazed how many people misinterpret Printz. Nothing in Printz says what people say it says and then they offer quotes as evidence that clearly don't say what people are claiming the quote says.

In Printz, the Supreme Court said that the federal government cannot force states to do work without paying for that work. It also states that the Constitution reserves unenumerated powers to the states or the people (which is what the Constitution says). Nowhere does the Court suggest that unemerated powers are reserved to the county sheriff.

I wish it were so, folks. I really do. But it ain't.
Levant is offline  
Old February 6, 2013, 11:52 AM   #20
Frank Ettin
Staff
 
Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 9,471
Remember that the Founding Fathers provided in the Constitution (Article VI, Clause 2, emphasis added):
Quote:
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby; any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.
Printz v. U.S., 521 U.S. 898 (Supreme Court, 1997) ruled essentially only that a federal law could not direct state law enforcement officers to participate in the administration of a federal regulatory program.

But the federal government may still administer its regulatory programs in a State. And if something is illegal under federal law, it is still illegal even if it is not illegal under state law. So you will get arrested by the FBI, ATF, U. S. Marshall or DEA, instead of the local police or sheriff; you will be tried in federal court instead of state court; and you will go to a federal prison instead of a state prison.
__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper
Frank Ettin is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.10037 seconds with 10 queries