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Old December 13, 2012, 05:34 PM   #1
phacious
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.308 Cases noobed up - what to do now?

Before I was informed that headspace was an important factor in resizing a case, I proceed to the resize about 100 pieces of one-shot brass using the instructions that came with the die. I screwed the die in until it touched the shell holder then turned it in a 1/4 turn. The resulting brass has the shoulder pushed back 2-3 thousandths from what I can gather from my new Lyman case gauge.

I also noticed the mouth of the case protrudes past the max length ridge in the case gauge. I brought out the digital caliper and found that I had done a [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color]y job of trimming the cases as well. Being ignorant of all the above, I proceeded to prime each one of these cases. I used a lee case trimmer so with the primer in I can't trim with the length rod. I've sorted the cases by length into 3 bags: under 2.010" (avg. 2.008) , over 20.10" (avg. 2.014), over 2.020" (problem bag)

Summary, I have ~100 primed cases (not charged) that a -.002-3" headspace with a +.08 - 15" length.

I bought a new Rem R-25 .308 this past Sunday that I'm dying to break in but I have very few factory loads. I want to roll some lighter loads to break it in but I am concerned about my cases.

My questions are:

Is a negative headspace of .002" to .003" going to cause safety issues or just accuracy issues? Will an extended mouth .003" to .005" going to cause ejection issues in an autoloader?



Thanks
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Old December 13, 2012, 06:01 PM   #2
schmellba99
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Your R-25 is basically an AR-10, and I'm going on the assumption that you don't have a match barrel or a Wiley chamber.

The shoulder bump is no big deal at all, nor is the length on the necks. Your chamber is going to have a very forgiving throat and odds are you will never even notice anything different between those rounds and some perfect for your gun rounds.

Load them up within established data and fire away.

Additionally, when you say the shoulder is -.002 or .003, is that from a fire formed case to your chamber or from a go/no go gauge? If it is the former, you are sitting very good on your die set up. If it is the latter, re-measure with some fire formed case to determine actual head space for your rifle and adjust your dies to .002" to .003" short of that.
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Old December 13, 2012, 06:02 PM   #3
Dan Newberry
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There shouldn't be anything wrong with shooting those cases. Factory ammo is often set back farther than that.

You of course need to make sure the necks are not too long--but I don't see how they could be having only been fired once, and FL sized.

Shooting in a semi-auto, FL sizing is going to be the norm, if you want your rifle to function well.

Should be a nice rifle... 168's in front of 39 grains of IMR 3031 is a super-accurate, medium range load. FWIW...

Dan
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Old December 14, 2012, 09:44 AM   #4
Slamfire
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Quote:
Is a negative headspace of .002" to .003" going to cause safety issues or just accuracy issues? Will an extended mouth .003" to .005" going to cause ejection issues in an autoloader

Trim after sizing. If you trim brass before sizing it could be too short but most likely, it will be too long.

If the sized case is too long you must trim the case mouths back. This is a safety issue as the case neck will pinch the bullet in the throat and this will cause pressure problems.

For a gas gun I recommend that you size to gage minimum, if you don't know chamber headspace. If you do know chamber headspace push the shoulder back about 0.003" for best function.

Gas guns require brass that will drop in the chamber without resistance. Neck sizing is positively dangerous for a number of them, and if the gun does not have an out of battery slamfire due to overly long cases, then the typical problem incountered is failure to go into battery or failure to extract.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...49#post7180249

Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR) Slamfire in 270 Win. Neck sized cases.

Quote:
It's good to think you had the good common horse sense to ask that question. Some have assumed nothing is any different since the cartridge is what it is, 30-06 or what ever high powered rifle round, and then necked it as with their bolt actions. A man came into the gun shot I worked in with a really nice, well was a really nice Browning semi auto, I think it was chambered in 270 win., no matter. He said he had been necking for a while for that rifle without problems. I doubt he considered now and then chambering issues as problems. Either way, all it took was one slam fire to ruin his day and rifle, and fortunately not his life!
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Old December 14, 2012, 12:47 PM   #5
wogpotter
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2~3 thou is nothing to be concerned about. Re set your dies correctly, trim to the trim-to length & fire the rounds as practice ammo or some other non-critical purpose then continue as though nothing had happened. The worst you probably did was take maybe one reload cycle out of the brass's life span.
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Old December 14, 2012, 05:09 PM   #6
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Case length is very important. If to long the bolt may not close or jam the case. Full size on auto guns, fire form on bolt guns. Just take your time, don't rush things in reloading. Cut the case to proper size as listed. In all areas of reloading you must follow the info in the load books. Making bullets is a serious hobby. One mistake and you can have a real problem. Be Safe Chris
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Old December 15, 2012, 05:12 AM   #7
phacious
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Well, they all went boom with zero functional problems. Didn't set any accuracy records but I was able to sight in the gun and managed a 3 shot .75"@100 group with 168gr AMAXs.

All the cases that were used had a shoulder that was pushed back .003" from what I gathered from my case gauge. The way I reasoned this out was the base was very slightly under the minimum headspace step on the gauge. I measure the length between the minimum headspace step and the neck which protruded slightly on the other end of the gauge. I subtracted the cases length from that figure and that's how I can up with .003" (2.011" - 2.008")

Fire formed cases are sitting .015"-.020" above the max headspace step.

Should I purchase to help me setup the resizing die, like a headspace GO gauge? Or would I be better off buying some quick detach lee die holders a just measure a couple each time? That seems more economical and have more benefits but I'd like a second opinion. Also, I managed to brake my powder scale today , what is a good digital powder scale?
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Old December 15, 2012, 06:30 PM   #8
wogpotter
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You don't need to purchase anything.
Here's how to do it.
Tahe a once-fired good case. Lube it & put a smudge of candle smoke round the neck & shoulder.
Back your sizing die off 1 full turn.
Resize the case. Look at how far off "perfect" the smoke removed is & bring the die in 1/2 of your best guess of the amount needed to resize perfectly.
Resize again.

Repeat using ever smaller adjustments till you hit what you want.
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Old December 15, 2012, 08:53 PM   #9
chris in va
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You're over-thinking this. Clean, decap, FL resize, trim, prime, charge, seat, crimp (optional)...done.

Skip the digital scale. Stick with a decent beam, gravity is consistent. Electronics aren't.
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Old December 17, 2012, 07:38 AM   #10
F. Guffey
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“Fire formed cases are sitting .015"-.020" above the max headspace step”

The press, die and shell holder have an ability to restore a case to minimum length/full length size, if your case head protrudes from the top of the Wilson case gage .015 thousands there is something seriously wrong with your chamber or you have a problem with your sizing methods and techniques.

”My questions are:

Is a negative headspace of .002" to .003" going to cause safety issues or just accuracy issues? Will an extended mouth .003" to .005" going to cause ejection issues in an autoloader?”

You can not have a negative????? head space of .002” if the fired casers protrude ..015” above the Wilson case gage after firing, I suggest you use the Wilson gage to measure the case length from the head of the case to its shoulder before and again after firing.

Then there is the “Is a negative headspace etc.,” There could be a difference in length between the chamber and case from the usual places, the difference is ‘clearance’.


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Old December 22, 2012, 11:57 PM   #11
dmazur
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Quote:
I measure the length between the minimum headspace step and the neck which protruded slightly on the other end of the gauge. I subtracted the cases length from that figure and that's how I can up with .003" (2.011" - 2.008")
Why not just use the depth rod on the caliper to measure the depth of the case head below the minimum headspace step (upper one)? If you bridge the gauge with the caliper body, you can get repeatable results.

This method has the advantage of working when you are dealing with trimmed cases which probably won't protrude above the case length end of the gauge.

If the Lyman gauge is similar to the Wilson pattern, by the way, you should stand the gauge on a flat surface to observe the mouth at the case length steps...the temptation is to push the case up from the bottom until it stops at the shoulder datum, but the gauge wasn't designed for this method.

Also, the term "headspace" is used to mean different things, depending on context. I understand the correct use is the chamber dimension from bolt face to whatever stops the forward motion of the case (shoulder of chamber for bottleneck cartridges), but it is often used to describe a case dimension. "Minimum headspace" still refers to the chamber, however. So the lower step on the gauge is maximum headspace and the upper step is minimum headspace. (Point of clarification...)
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Old December 23, 2012, 08:41 AM   #12
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Phacious - I've had the R25 for about two years now and have taken 12 deer with it to date. Last one taken last night at 60+ yards with a single shot behind the ear. You're going to LOVE this rifle. If you're in a state where you can have more than 4 rounds in the mag, take the stock mag apart and remove the nylon blocks that prevent loading more than four and then you'll have a ten round mag.

With regard to loads, I've settled on 42.2g of Varget with the 168g SMK's. I've found that 42.2g of Varget works nearly as well with 165g Hornady Interlocks, and 165g Nosler Ballistic tips for hunting.

Zero'd 2" high at 100 yards, I'm an 1" high at 50 and 1/4" low at 200.

I'd be happy to share pics of the targets from my load development if you'd like.

Best Regards and Merry Christmas to all.

Richard
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