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Old February 18, 2006, 05:26 PM   #1
Monkey
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Load Development On A Progressive (RL550B)

Howdy all,

Well, it didn't take very long for this newbie to realize that load development on a progressive press is a PITA! Now, I don't know how easy it would be on other equipment, because this is all I have, but I do have a strong manufacturing background and it is apparant to me that the Dillon RL 550B was made for cranking out a lot of the same thing, with no variation.

Realistically, I excpect to be loading for 2-3 guns in near future (this year.) Would it be wise to pick up a basic single stage, or turret press to work up the loads on?

Being new to this, I am going to want to try every bullet I can get my hands on. I'm loading only for .45 ACP right now, but I just got a set of .44 magnum dies.

So far, I've tested (in the .45) 230 grain FMJ (Hdy) and 230 grain RN plated, and 185 grain XTP's. All over various charges of Red Dot, with various COL's. I haven't been happy with any of them, so I picked up a pound of Unique. I also got 100 185 grain LSWC's & 500 200 grain LSWC's. I'm loading those over the Unique now, hope to test them in the next couple of days.

Depending on the data source, the range in powder charge for Unique over a 200 grain LSWC is from 5.0 to 7.5 grains! Man, that's a lot of adjusting!

Not to mention the fact that the powder adjustment on this machine leaves a lot to be desired. I was thinking of getting one of the micrometer retro-fits that I've seen advertised, or even one of the graduated scale knobs.

Any tips? Time/energy saving advice would be most appreciated.
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Old February 18, 2006, 06:40 PM   #2
Mike Wood
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Monkey, I use a Dillon 550 as well. But when I'm working up loads I want them as perfect as I can get them so I use a trickler to drop the powder, I too quickly found out readjusting the Dillon is not going to cut it.

Just use a trickler for the powder drop and keep the hopper on the Dillon empty for expanding only.

good luck.
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Old February 18, 2006, 07:06 PM   #3
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I use a Lee Turret press when I want to make up new loads.I have to admit the Dillon powder adjustment leaves a lot to be desired,at time have had some unrepeatable words when trying to get a accurate adjustmentBut no matter I still like my Dillon
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Old February 18, 2006, 07:19 PM   #4
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Mike, Russ, thanks for the replies.

Mike, with the trickler, do you trickle into a pan, then dump in the case? How's that work?
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Old February 18, 2006, 10:51 PM   #5
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I agree with the above comments. I started with a single stage press and later added a Dillon 550. I find it easier to use the single stage for small volume loads. I love the 550 for high volume production.

Another suggestion for working up incremental powder charges would be to set up two toolheads for the 550. The first would size, prime, and bell with no powder in the measure. With no dies in stations 3 and 4, you will end up with brass that is ready for powder charging. The second toolhead would have only bullet seating and crimp dies. Charge a batch of cases off the press with the first desired powder charge and finish loading with a second pass through the press. Store and label this first load. Charge a second batch of cases with the second desired powder charge and run them through the press. Repeat as necessary.

I have an RCBS Uniflow powder measure that I use when not using the 550. For powders that don't meter well, I'll set it to throw a little light. I'll throw a charge into an empty case, pour it onto the scale, trickle up as necessary then pour into a case.
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Old February 19, 2006, 09:22 AM   #6
HSMITH
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Take the pins out of the shellplate on the 550 and use it like a turret press.

I do ALL of my load develpment on the 550, and find it far better than a turret or single stage press for doing so. I have shot literally hundreds of different loads in the last couple years alone, work-up of all these loads started on a single stage and went to the Dillon due to the PITA factor.
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Old February 19, 2006, 09:34 AM   #7
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HSMITH,

Are you saying to have different toolheads, each with one die? Then what - use station one only?
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Old February 19, 2006, 12:05 PM   #8
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I started on a RC and bought a 550B to increase production of staple loads but still use the RC and trickler method for working up different loads. I believe the single stage press is indispensible even with a progressive press here also..

Any load that approaches to within .5 gr or so of max is hand weighed and trickled/topped off except for 45acp which I've loaded to max for on the 550B, but not until after a painstaking checking-double/triple checking the measure for average wt of 10 throws to be + .1 gr under max. Painstaking for sure and can only be done with certain powders also.

Another consideration to use single stage vs progressive for a load is how much pressure are we dealing with? The load book(s) will give you an indication of what range the pressure is in and actual pressure can be extrapolated for your intended load (roughly). When your comfort level is surpassed, time to use the single stage.

Another thing I do when checking the throe on the 550 is just when I think I have it set up, I'll give the measure a light smack or two (so it will drop more powder than usual) and see where that takes you. If it takes you past your comfort level, again, time to use the single stage. I've found that it largly depends on the type of powder used as to wether or not I'll use it through a measure on the 550. Extruded powders will not usually give a consistent rise in charge weight when the measure is smacked, ball powders will.

Yes, I think you'll need a single stage press. It's just too versatile and covers too many bases to go without. You already see the potential need for it or you would not have asked the question, Go with your gut.

I'm toying with the idea of wether or not I need a second single stage press right now! I already know the answer too.
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Old February 19, 2006, 01:49 PM   #9
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$$$$$$$My Gut Instincts Are Very Expensive!!!$$$$$$$

Edward429451,

Yes, I guess I do know the answer already. Now, if only my wife would see the light!
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Old February 19, 2006, 02:03 PM   #10
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Hundred(ish) bucks for a NIB Rockchucker. Not too bad.

I used to save my lunch money up for needed stuff so as not to dip into the household cash flow. Suprising how fast it adds up with a few bucks here n there. Then when I'd show up with a new gadget she'd be like where'd you get the money for that? Sorry baby but I went hungry for that.

Not to extremes mind you, but eating less does help you live longer so there's a health benefit also.

Plus the reloading room piggy bank! Squeeze the buddies for their change. Feed the pig! It helps finance the next range outing I'd say. Soon they were dropping 1's, 5's & 10's in it.
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Old February 19, 2006, 02:24 PM   #11
caz223
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If you're going to do load workups on a progressive, the 550 is the one to do it on.
I seriously considered the case feeder for the 550, or upgrading to the 650, but it's really more than I need, and I'd go crazy with the options.
I figured it out, I could spend as little as $200, or over $1000 upgrading it, depending on how crazy I went.
But the more crap you hang on it, the more you take away it's strength: versatility. Fast caliber changes. User friendliness. Simplicity.
There comes a point to where, like anything else, you can't add anything to it without taking something else away.
Who would change beethoven's 9th?
Handel's messiah?
Nope, the 550 is perfect the way it is. Don't try and make it into a 650.

Incidentally, I find load workups fairly easy on the 550.
Change powder dispense screw.
Throw 2 or 3 charges into scale pan, dump it back into powder hopper.
Throw 10 charges into scale pan.
Weigh it.
Rinse lather repeat until you got it.
The adjustment that takes the most time for me is the belling adjustment, but I think I'm obsessing on it too much.

Also, they used to make (Maybe they still do.) a die that screws into the toolhead that's just basically a funnel into which you pour your weighed charge.
It was originally for the AT500? It might bell the case too, don't know.
Maybe a call to dillon would set you right.
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Old February 19, 2006, 02:54 PM   #12
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I've seen people that have a AT500 press specifically for load development.
It's really not that different from a 550, because they do some of the improvements that the 550 already has, for instance, they use auto eject and a 550 shellplate. If you just got a powder die and an AT500 funnel (And took off the auto powder dispense.), you'd have a turret press.
For the cost of a toolhead and the powder die/funnel, you'd have a turret press.
With auto eject and auto priming systems.
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Old February 19, 2006, 03:01 PM   #13
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Monkey, no need for tool heads with just one die. Just run one round through the press at a time, instead of spinning the turret for each die you spin the shell plate or just pull the round and place it under each die. Essentially you have 3 or 4 single stage presses set up and ready to go without having to move from one to the other.

I can switch powders and set up a new charge on my 550B in less than two minutes, about the same time it takes for my stand alone measure unless I have the powder plotted for micrometer numbers and charge weight. I can adjust dies just as fast as on a single stage too.

Caz, just barely snug the powder measure clamp bolts, loosen the lock ring, put a little bit of side load on the measure and turn the die with the measure, hold the die and turn the measure back with no side load on it. You can adjust your bell in just seconds this way, then clamp the measure bolts and lock ring to begin loading.

I don't believe in measuring each charge, or trickling charges. I won't push maximums close enough to where it will serve any purpose, and it doesn't help accuracy at all. If it did benchrest competitors would do so, and none of them do.
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Old February 19, 2006, 03:25 PM   #14
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When I work up loads for my handguns I usually make 10 or 20 rounds at each powder level, starting with the initial load in the manual I'm using and going up in 0.1 or 0.2g increments. The loads are put into separate rows in a marked ammo box (I dropped one once, and had to pull and reload all the rounds - now I'm REAL careful how I handle that box as it's being filled and on the way to the range.) I find it much faster to isolate the unique step (powder charging) from the other steps which are all standard, and the progressive press is ideal for this purpose.

I use my Lee Loadmaster with the appropriate caliber toolhead and shell plate, but no powder in the measure. I run all the cases through the size, prime and flare steps (3 different positions on the Lee) at once, taking them out of the shellplate as they get to the bullet seating stage and putting them in a loading block. I use a bench mounted powder measure (mine is a Redding 3BR) carefully adjusted for a particular charge, fill the number of cases I want at that charge level, and then take those cases back to the press for bullet seating and final crimp, then into the ammo box. Then, back to the powder measure for the next charge level, etc. (Actually the powder measure sits about 2 feet to the left of the press when I'm doing this, so it's really just a matter of swivelling a bit on the stool to go from powder charging to bullet seating and crimping.)

You probably could use a similar workflow with the 550, assuming it's easy to remove and replace a case under the bullet seater.
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Old February 19, 2006, 06:14 PM   #15
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Progressives are only useful for long runs of already established loads. I do all my workups the old-fashioned way. +1 Rock Chucker. (NB: I'm a big fan of progressives, where they function well. I use my XL650 for mass production of pistol & .223.....)
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Old February 19, 2006, 09:03 PM   #16
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+1 on the AT500 powder die and funnel.

Andy
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Old February 25, 2006, 09:49 AM   #17
alzo
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Two things that might make load development / experimentation easier on a Dillon press:

http://www.redding-reloading.com/pag...ndseatdie.html

http://www.uniquetek.com/site/696296/product/T1231
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Old February 26, 2006, 11:17 AM   #18
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Alzo, ++++++++1 on the Uniquetec. I have one and it's made load work-ups a breeze. Highly recommended.
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Old February 26, 2006, 02:50 PM   #19
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Monkey:

You originally stated:

Quote:
So far, I've tested (in the .45) 230 grain FMJ (Hdy) and 230 grain RN plated, and 185 grain XTP's. All over various charges of Red Dot, with various COL's. I haven't been happy with any of them, so I picked up a pound of Unique. I also got 100 185 grain LSWC's & 500 200 grain LSWC's. I'm loading those over the Unique now, hope to test them in the next couple of days.
Red Dot is a great powder, and it's in the right speed range for .45 ACP, but it is big flake and bulky (it's primary use is for shotgun shells). Therefore, it does not meter worth a hoot in most (if not all) powder measures in the small charges required for most pistol cartridges. Unique meters better, but it can be a struggle as well.

I'm only mentioning this because you could spend an awful lot of time chasing after a load you find acceptable, when it's inconsistent powder drops that are causing you grief.

I don't own a 550, but I do own a Hornady progressive. And like a lot of other reloaders here, I simply do most of my load development on an RCBS single stage and Redding T7 turret.

dogfood

Last edited by dogfood; February 26, 2006 at 10:54 PM.
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Old February 26, 2006, 02:54 PM   #20
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I've never found unique to be a problem in my 550.
In fact, it's the most accurate powder I've tried.
My favorite load is 7.0 unique and a 200 grain XTP-hp. Mild, deadly, and accurate.
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Old February 26, 2006, 09:04 PM   #21
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alzo,

I like the looks of both of those products (but not the prices.) I've looked at the Uniquetek product before. Just not in the budget right now.

dogfood,

I've wondered before about the points you made. I noticed inconsistencies in the charges as much as .2 grains with Red Dot. I emailed Dillon and they said this was normal.
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Old February 26, 2006, 09:35 PM   #22
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If you're developing loads for lead bullets, I'd recommend Hornady dies with the optional micrometer adjuster screw (called microjust) over the Forster or Redding competition dies, since the Hornadys can be disassembled on the press for cleaning without touching the settings, much like the dillons, except they are a better seater.

If your load development involves changing powders as well, I'd recommend the new Hornady case activated linkage with powder through expander inserts, along with either the new RCBS uniflow measure or the Hornady measure, that have pushbutton interchangeable metering inserts, micrometer adjustable inserts, and even drain inserts that let you drain the measure while still on the press. No more disconnecting the linkage and removing the PM just to empty it.

Andy
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